Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New profile posts
Latest activity
Internet Search
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
Child with possible ODD, need help, advice
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 346031" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Yes, you can have ODD and nothing else, but frankly in my experience, there is always an underlying reason.</p><p></p><p>Some kids just need a different way of handling. It's nothing to do with how smart they are (or are not), but more a complex set of expectations that we have for most kids, that for various reasons are not right for our kids.</p><p></p><p>For example, if a child has impulse control issues; task changing issues; doesn't know what is right or not; knows what is right but for various reasons cannot comply on demand; doesn't understand (because of ambiguity); has anger issues - any of these can prevent the usual punishment-based discipline methods from working.</p><p></p><p>You say she lies - all kids lie. But some lies are complex fabrications, other lies are merely "I didn't do it" even when they've been caught red-handed. </p><p></p><p>Kids who lie do it to avoid punishment, to avoid negative consequences. The more anxious the child, the more they will try to lie. Autistic kids tend to not lie so much (especially when older) because they are bad at it. A bad liar is NOT a kid who rarely lies, it's the kid who gets caught lying.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3 is high-functioning autistic, but he can still lie. Mostly he tries the "I didn't do it" simple lie because his long-term experience of getting caught out when he does try to lie, has over time produced a conditioned response in him to not lie.</p><p></p><p>I used to claim that difficult child 3 didn't lie because, being autistic, he couldn't. Then his teacher said, "But I caught him in a lie! I saw him push Jeremy, so I asked hi - 'Did you push Jeremy?' and he said, 'No, I didn't.' But I had seen him. When I told him I had seen it, he then admitted it. But you say he can't lie - but I caught him at it."</p><p></p><p>That is when I observed more closely and realised the teacher was correct - to a point. difficult child 3 had shifted to the truth when confronted, because he is smart enough to realise when the gig is up. But another problem about lies - kids like difficult child 3 will try to tell you what he thinks you want to hear. So when the same teacher said to him, "I know you said Jeremy deliberately tripped you up, but Jeremy said he was on the other side of the playground, his friends say he was nowhere near you either, so do you think you could be mistaken? After all, you have autism and sometimes things didn't happen the way you think they did."</p><p>That teacher got difficult child 3 to back down from his earlier statement (also supported by a witness) that Jeremy and his friends had attacked him. difficult child 3 came to me later in the day and said, "Mr S said I must have been mistaken, because my autism means I sometimes don't see things right. I didn't know I could get it so wrong, I was so sure I saw Jeremy trip me up."</p><p>difficult child 3 was genuinely puzzled because he had, in fact, been correct - Jeremy HAD attacked him. And Jeremy's friends all backed Jeremy up in lying to Mr S. But the other kids had worked out that difficult child 3 could be easily bamboozled because he often got identities wrong. Face blindness. Plus the teacher wanted to take the easy way out and not need to talk to the other parents about their boys. It was easier for him to convince difficult child 3 that he was wrong.</p><p></p><p>You say your daughter has gotten bad really quickly, especially over the last year. What changed a year ago? Is that when she started pre-school? Or a new teacher arrived? An old one left? Or a change in other kids?</p><p>There is always a reason that makes sense to the child.</p><p></p><p>You haven't told us a lot about her in detail; much of what she is doing would need to be carefully observed, so you can try and get inside her head.</p><p></p><p>A couple of things to keep in mind while you observe - no child is deliberately bad, not at this age. Children want to be happy, and they want to please us. So when she is raging and hurting other kids, this was not her first choice of action. She is doing this because for her at that time, it feels like she has no choice. So it's important to try to work out WHY she could feel this way.</p><p></p><p>I'm not saying she's right - of course she isn't. But she's a very young child, she has a long way to go, in learning the right way to get on with people. She's not 'cooked' yet, and something is making her so angry and frustrated that she is lashing out. So we need to find out what is upsetting her, and why. And how.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3 would react badly to a change in routine. At school he wanted to be the one who read out the class roll and changed the date on the calendar. If in his mind he was expecting the task to be his and for some reason this task was given to someone else. difficult child 3 would rage. He would get very angry at whoever he felt was responsible for the break in tradition. He might hit the child who got the job he felt was his.</p><p></p><p>I suggest you read "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. Google it, see what you find. It's all over this site because so many of us have found it helped. There are other books. YOu also don't have to take everything form this book, you just take what feels like it will fit.</p><p>If you go to the Early Childhood Forum, you will find some stickies there that deal with applying "Explosive Child" to younger kids.</p><p></p><p>There is help here. Your daughter sounds a lot like many of the kids who bring us to this site. You've made a good start trying to find a good psychologist. Try to find where/how you can get a neuropsychologist assessment done on her. You need a detailed assessment so you can examine the sub-scores and find her strengths and weaknesses. It is also possible she may have difficulty being assessed, especially if she tends to be non-compliant. A neuropsychologist is an important step towards getting a diagnosis that you can use to help her.</p><p></p><p>Do a sig for yourself when you can (don't use real names, it's important you maintain your confidentiality).</p><p></p><p>And welcome!</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 346031, member: 1991"] Yes, you can have ODD and nothing else, but frankly in my experience, there is always an underlying reason. Some kids just need a different way of handling. It's nothing to do with how smart they are (or are not), but more a complex set of expectations that we have for most kids, that for various reasons are not right for our kids. For example, if a child has impulse control issues; task changing issues; doesn't know what is right or not; knows what is right but for various reasons cannot comply on demand; doesn't understand (because of ambiguity); has anger issues - any of these can prevent the usual punishment-based discipline methods from working. You say she lies - all kids lie. But some lies are complex fabrications, other lies are merely "I didn't do it" even when they've been caught red-handed. Kids who lie do it to avoid punishment, to avoid negative consequences. The more anxious the child, the more they will try to lie. Autistic kids tend to not lie so much (especially when older) because they are bad at it. A bad liar is NOT a kid who rarely lies, it's the kid who gets caught lying. difficult child 3 is high-functioning autistic, but he can still lie. Mostly he tries the "I didn't do it" simple lie because his long-term experience of getting caught out when he does try to lie, has over time produced a conditioned response in him to not lie. I used to claim that difficult child 3 didn't lie because, being autistic, he couldn't. Then his teacher said, "But I caught him in a lie! I saw him push Jeremy, so I asked hi - 'Did you push Jeremy?' and he said, 'No, I didn't.' But I had seen him. When I told him I had seen it, he then admitted it. But you say he can't lie - but I caught him at it." That is when I observed more closely and realised the teacher was correct - to a point. difficult child 3 had shifted to the truth when confronted, because he is smart enough to realise when the gig is up. But another problem about lies - kids like difficult child 3 will try to tell you what he thinks you want to hear. So when the same teacher said to him, "I know you said Jeremy deliberately tripped you up, but Jeremy said he was on the other side of the playground, his friends say he was nowhere near you either, so do you think you could be mistaken? After all, you have autism and sometimes things didn't happen the way you think they did." That teacher got difficult child 3 to back down from his earlier statement (also supported by a witness) that Jeremy and his friends had attacked him. difficult child 3 came to me later in the day and said, "Mr S said I must have been mistaken, because my autism means I sometimes don't see things right. I didn't know I could get it so wrong, I was so sure I saw Jeremy trip me up." difficult child 3 was genuinely puzzled because he had, in fact, been correct - Jeremy HAD attacked him. And Jeremy's friends all backed Jeremy up in lying to Mr S. But the other kids had worked out that difficult child 3 could be easily bamboozled because he often got identities wrong. Face blindness. Plus the teacher wanted to take the easy way out and not need to talk to the other parents about their boys. It was easier for him to convince difficult child 3 that he was wrong. You say your daughter has gotten bad really quickly, especially over the last year. What changed a year ago? Is that when she started pre-school? Or a new teacher arrived? An old one left? Or a change in other kids? There is always a reason that makes sense to the child. You haven't told us a lot about her in detail; much of what she is doing would need to be carefully observed, so you can try and get inside her head. A couple of things to keep in mind while you observe - no child is deliberately bad, not at this age. Children want to be happy, and they want to please us. So when she is raging and hurting other kids, this was not her first choice of action. She is doing this because for her at that time, it feels like she has no choice. So it's important to try to work out WHY she could feel this way. I'm not saying she's right - of course she isn't. But she's a very young child, she has a long way to go, in learning the right way to get on with people. She's not 'cooked' yet, and something is making her so angry and frustrated that she is lashing out. So we need to find out what is upsetting her, and why. And how. difficult child 3 would react badly to a change in routine. At school he wanted to be the one who read out the class roll and changed the date on the calendar. If in his mind he was expecting the task to be his and for some reason this task was given to someone else. difficult child 3 would rage. He would get very angry at whoever he felt was responsible for the break in tradition. He might hit the child who got the job he felt was his. I suggest you read "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. Google it, see what you find. It's all over this site because so many of us have found it helped. There are other books. YOu also don't have to take everything form this book, you just take what feels like it will fit. If you go to the Early Childhood Forum, you will find some stickies there that deal with applying "Explosive Child" to younger kids. There is help here. Your daughter sounds a lot like many of the kids who bring us to this site. You've made a good start trying to find a good psychologist. Try to find where/how you can get a neuropsychologist assessment done on her. You need a detailed assessment so you can examine the sub-scores and find her strengths and weaknesses. It is also possible she may have difficulty being assessed, especially if she tends to be non-compliant. A neuropsychologist is an important step towards getting a diagnosis that you can use to help her. Do a sig for yourself when you can (don't use real names, it's important you maintain your confidentiality). And welcome! Marg [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
Child with possible ODD, need help, advice
Top