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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 191242" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Thank you for posting this, Kate.</p><p></p><p>I do have a few issues with it, however (not with you, of course!).</p><p></p><p>There IS some great information in this, but it is very much what many of us have been saying. I DO take issue with the repeated use of the word "defiant" because I feel it implies that these children are choosing to be defiant, that their behaviour is purely obstinacy for the sake of causing trouble; I personally believe that this is not the case, many children with a combination of other disorders (not always diagnosed) have a desperate NEED to understand their environment and to try to keep everything controlled, so they won't be taken unawares or challenged by Change. Add in a short fuse, anxiety and often communication issues, and you have a child who has an almost knee-jerk hysterical reaction to the possibility of change or lack of predictability. These children often WANT to be seen as good kids, but repeated problems make them feel as if this is so far beyond their capabilities that is it not worth trying. Ross Greene explains this really well in "Explosive Child" - a lot of the good suggestions in this article are, I feel, also well-covered in "Explosive Child".</p><p></p><p>A concern with this article - it doesn't make clear that a common aggravator for ODD is the sort of strict, controlling parenting that was a hallmark of the upbringing of so many of our generation; a type of parenting which can work well for many kids but which, for the difficult children of ours, can make them much worse. This is information I HAD to know - that I needed to change my entire thinking, my way of dealing with my problem child, or he would continue to be a problem.</p><p></p><p>Now, to analyse the article:</p><p></p><p>Yes, ODD-type symptoms often co-exist with other disorders especially ADHD. But it needn't be too pessimistic.</p><p></p><p>What to do?</p><p></p><p>Individual Psychotherapy </p><p>Yes, this can help a lot. But you need other things in place as well. The value of regular individual therapy is to keep everything heading in the right direction and to also deal with problems as they arise, before they get too deeply entrenched or too far out of hand. But depending on how well the child responds to your change in parenting, individual therapy may not be as vital as this article seems to say.</p><p></p><p>Social Skills Training</p><p>Very important, certainly something to keep working on (even more than the individual therapy, above) BUT the child's brain needs to be ready to take this on board. If the child is just not ready to learn something, not all the intensive lessons in the world will make one skerrick of the lesson stick. A parent needs to keep tabs on the child's development and ensure that when the child IS ready to learn, that social skills training is available.</p><p></p><p>Medication</p><p>Yes, you should medicate other conditions where appropriate and where recommended; but yes, ODD itself isn't the sort of thing that has any medication therapy that is valid, for it alone.</p><p></p><p>Practical Suggestions for Parents</p><p>Enlist others to help you.</p><p>Yes, whatever methods you choose to use to manage your child, you need as many people on board as possible, for the sake of consistency. Also making use of extended family (where they are on board) is valuable for buying parents much-needed time out, to recharge batteries.</p><p></p><p>Set up an appropriate school program</p><p>Again, some good ideas here. Making sure that homework and assignments are dealt with in school and not at home - I applaud. A considerable amount of trouble is caused by homework being given to kids who simply are feeling burnt out by the end of the school day. Also, if you have a child on medications for ADHD, then those medications have often worn off by the end of the school day. Trying to get such a child to be able to concentrate well enough to do homework is a recipe for major battles. Handing the problem back to the school - definitely. And if the school knows just how difficult it is for the child, they may be more willing to find other ways to ensure that the lessons of the school day have been learned effectively. Also, if the child is on medications for ADHD, then getting homework done as an extension of the school day will help because it will be making best use of the last dregs of medications in the child's system. It also keeps the problems associated with schoolwork, in the school environment and not encroaching into the home environment.</p><p></p><p>Access Community Services/Respite Foster Care</p><p>Again, a heavy emphasis on homework happening at school after school. Also a good point (already made) to get as much help as possible from whatever services are available, in order to prevent parents burning out too fast.</p><p></p><p>Make consequences relevant to the offence</p><p>This is natural consequences - again, I agree. After all, natural consequences are far more like what happens in life generally. If you damage someone else's car in the car park - you don't get grounded by them with loss of TV privileges; you are instead expected to pay for the damage.</p><p></p><p>Discover what your child is interested in/Handle the child positively</p><p>Again, this is important (but also common sense). A child with ODD-type presentation is a child who is responding to what they perceive to be obstruction by others, to negativity, to the feeling that they can't do anything right. If you instead show the child that they are valued, that they have something worthwhile to contribute - it can begin to give them a glimmer of hope that perhaps it IS worth making the effort, after all.</p><p></p><p>Residential Schools</p><p>I have absolutely no experience here, so I bow to the article as a higher authority.</p><p></p><p>Then comes a number of small points - all good common sense suggestions that have already been made.</p><p></p><p>How to Begin Dealing With Your Child's Behaviour</p><p>Start at Ground Zero.</p><p>I do feel this will depend on the situation and the child. What I saw at this point of the article seemed not only a bit heavy-handed but also to be setting up for possibly harsh reactions. First, it begins negatively - "Your behaviour lately has been far form satisfactory." It then says to put up a list of expected behaviours and at the same time to pull back EVERYTHING until you're providing the bare basics only, with everything else to be earned. And I really do have a problems with this as a blanket discipline method.</p><p>First - it's too easy for the list to be too long. Ross Greene says to keep the list of what you want to change, to a small number. Don't have Basket B too full or it will be overwhelming and seem far too hard. You also need to only work on the behaviours that the child CAN change - too often we as parents are guided by the calendar, or by family/friends/teachers who say, "He should be doing much better than this, at his age."</p><p>Age is not the issue - what the child can actually do, IS the issue. Don't set up unrealistic expectations FOR THAT CHILD. If your child is unable to copy information accurately from the blackboard at school then some other way needs to be found, to make sure the child DOES get access to the information being presented. THe method you choose will have to take into account any problem the child might have. A child who has coding problems may need to have the information presented on paper, beside his workbook. A child who is blind will need information on tape. A child who is deaf will need information presented in whatever way he can best absorb the information. You modify the instruction method according to what the student can handle. A three year old child should not be expected to do complex algebra, unless he is a maths prodigy. A fifteen year old child who is learning-impaired and/or developmentally delayed should not be expected to learn differential calculus at quite the same rate or in the same way as other non-impaired students the same age. He certainly shouldn't be penalised for his failure to learn this.</p><p>We need to THINK and see things from the child's perspective, before we assume the behaviour problems are under the child's complete control. To punish for something not under the child's complete control, is (I think) to risk setting back your progress.</p><p></p><p>But if you feel your child IS able to learn/comply, then yes - the suggested method is good.</p><p></p><p>Build on the Positives</p><p>Certainly. Some good advice in this. With the proviso - you do need to make sure you are praising appropriately, also be careful to not sound patronising.</p><p></p><p>Use Teachable Moments to your advantage</p><p>Always a good thing, although my kids now roll their eyes when I snap into didactic mode. Be careful to not overdo this, like I have clearly done! But certainly, you should explain things as best as the kids can understand. It is very important to give these kids as much understanding as they can handle - it actually increases their sense of being in control, of not being caught by surprise. It thereby reduces their anxiety which should then flow on to a reduction in raging in response to things they can't change or control. Again, common sense.</p><p></p><p>Pick Your Battles/Take a break from the conflict</p><p>Again, very much what Ross Greene makes clear. To argue is tiring; for a parent to argue with a child is just as tiring. For a parent to LOSE an argument with a child is to not only lose face, but to lose authority. This predisposes you to a greater chance of losing next time, because the child will feel stronger and will have learnt that if he persists, he has a better chance of winning.</p><p>So pick your battles, choose only the ones you know you will win.</p><p>Taking a break - when you feel tired, when you feel the argument is beginning to repeat, when you feel you are in danger of losing - walk away. But you shouldn't do this to often simply if you are losing, because the child will pick up on this and will follow you, persisting in arguing because they can smell victory. They will also lose respect for you if you use avoidance as a debating technique. So be careful, don't overuse it.</p><p></p><p>Don't keep misbehaviour a secret</p><p>I can't see why this deserves a point on its own, this is perhaps better covered with "Speak the Truth". If your child sees you being truthful, you are modelling truth for them to learn to use it also. It sometimes takes courage to be truthful, it is also deserving of respect. Instead of saying, "Don't keep misbehaviour a secret" the emphasis needs to be on honesty, on frank communication, on keeping people in the loop, on Truth.</p><p></p><p>Quality Time</p><p>Definitely important. Again, this comes in with being positive, showing your child you love him/her unconditionally, in 'catching your child being good', in saying positive things, in appropriately praising your child. Spending quality time with the child SHOULDN'T need to be reminded, but sadly we often don't do this. Spending one-on-one quality time with ALL your children is also worthy of mention here. Connecting with your child should be emphasised here as well. Connecting with your child is really important - because it helps you have a better understanding, which helps YOU have a better idea of what to expect from them.</p><p></p><p>Remaining points:</p><p>don't take it personally, stay calm - very important. Again, it's all been covered. But when the word "defiant" gets used, it is very hard to not take things personally, when they are being done by a child bearing the label of "defiant". The reason you shouldn't take it personally - because often the child is NOT in control, what you are seeing is not a considered, deliberate response of a naughty child but is more likely the panicked, terrified, desperate behaviour of a very anxious, panicked kid.</p><p></p><p>I had to bathe a stray kitten that was covered in fleas. The only way I had to do this was in the shower, with me. A warm shower, followed by a hot air blower (not too hot) to dry him off. But the kitten in a panic scratched my arm. Should I have been angry with the kitten? Of course not - he was being held under the shower faucet, HE didn't know that I wasn't about to drown him. Later while stroking the kitten as he was drying in front of the warm air blower, the kitten was purring. The scratch was forgotten. It was no longer relevant. I'm sure the kitten was also more comfortable without all those fleas. I know we household members were very happy the kitten had no more fleas. I did not take the scratch personally, although my wrist still bears the scar.</p><p></p><p>Give Genuine Choices</p><p>This again comes back to the WHY for these kids, and is a point that should be up near the beginning. It comes to the heart of why these kids are so prickly much of the time, because they are trying to make sense of the world, plus they are often impulsive, plus they have s short fuse. Ross Greene calls these kids"inflexible-explosive" for good reason. A lot of apparent ODD is caused when we try to over-control these kids, because it seems the logical way to handle them. But it is not. It is counterproductive to try to assert OUR controls onto them, when these kids are struggling already with their own sense of being out of control. If we instead give them the sense that they CAN exert their own controls, that our role is to help them apply their own brakes instead of us doing it for them, then we will see a reduction in them fighting us every inch of the way.</p><p></p><p>I know I keep championing Ross Greene's "The Explosive Child". It was you guys who taught me this (so blame yourselves!). It's darn good stuff, it explains it all well, it is SIMPLE, common sense, self-explanatory.</p><p></p><p>There are some very simple rules. It needn't be so complicated.</p><p></p><p>1) Get inside the child's head, work out how the world seems form their point of view. What can they do? What can't they do? What makes them upset? What makes them happy? </p><p></p><p>2) Then USE that information in a positive way to give the child back some sense of control, become the child's facilitator and stop being the person who only exists to say, "No," or "Stop that!". Instead, be as positive and supportive as you can be.</p><p></p><p>3) Don't take any of the negativity or hatefulness on board personally, recognise that a lot of it is born in anxiety and frustration rather than directed at you. Keep calm, stay positive, do not engage in any battle you can't win.</p><p></p><p>4) Work on lists of what you want to change but keep those lists small and manageable (for all of you). KISS Principle.</p><p></p><p>5) Don't ground, remove privileges, put restrictions in place unless they are also natural consequences/related to the misdemeanour. For example, a child who consistently comes home past curfew will need to stay home for a few evenings instead, to recover from the stresses of being so late; and to also help them learn a better relationship with time.</p><p></p><p>6) Communicate. be open. Get as many people on board with this system as possible, to ensure consistency.</p><p></p><p>7) Look after yourself, keep up your own strength emotionally and physically.</p><p></p><p>Above all else, learning to handle a kid with ODD generally requires you to change your mind-set. Even if you think you already have - you need to always keep mentally touching base, to see if you have inadvertently slipped back into old habits, if you have let more negativity creep back in than is good for your relationship, or if there is anything else you need to be alert to.</p><p></p><p>It is very difficult to do all this, while at the back of your mind lurks the word "defiant". If any part of you thinks the child is doing this deliberately, you will feel (rightly) resentful. This then sets up a competition between you and the child, which you, the parent, feel you MUST win. Once you step away from your necessary role as facilitator, you are stepping back into the role of adversary, and the child will then automatically snap back into competition mode, to oppose your every move/action/word and you will be back in your old rut.</p><p></p><p>It's not easy to parent a child with a label of ODD. But it needn't be made too impossible, either. Some of us will struggle more, depending on what else is wrong. All we can do, is our best. If this falls short - then don't bet yourself up about it. You DID do your best, after all.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 191242, member: 1991"] Thank you for posting this, Kate. I do have a few issues with it, however (not with you, of course!). There IS some great information in this, but it is very much what many of us have been saying. I DO take issue with the repeated use of the word "defiant" because I feel it implies that these children are choosing to be defiant, that their behaviour is purely obstinacy for the sake of causing trouble; I personally believe that this is not the case, many children with a combination of other disorders (not always diagnosed) have a desperate NEED to understand their environment and to try to keep everything controlled, so they won't be taken unawares or challenged by Change. Add in a short fuse, anxiety and often communication issues, and you have a child who has an almost knee-jerk hysterical reaction to the possibility of change or lack of predictability. These children often WANT to be seen as good kids, but repeated problems make them feel as if this is so far beyond their capabilities that is it not worth trying. Ross Greene explains this really well in "Explosive Child" - a lot of the good suggestions in this article are, I feel, also well-covered in "Explosive Child". A concern with this article - it doesn't make clear that a common aggravator for ODD is the sort of strict, controlling parenting that was a hallmark of the upbringing of so many of our generation; a type of parenting which can work well for many kids but which, for the difficult children of ours, can make them much worse. This is information I HAD to know - that I needed to change my entire thinking, my way of dealing with my problem child, or he would continue to be a problem. Now, to analyse the article: Yes, ODD-type symptoms often co-exist with other disorders especially ADHD. But it needn't be too pessimistic. What to do? Individual Psychotherapy Yes, this can help a lot. But you need other things in place as well. The value of regular individual therapy is to keep everything heading in the right direction and to also deal with problems as they arise, before they get too deeply entrenched or too far out of hand. But depending on how well the child responds to your change in parenting, individual therapy may not be as vital as this article seems to say. Social Skills Training Very important, certainly something to keep working on (even more than the individual therapy, above) BUT the child's brain needs to be ready to take this on board. If the child is just not ready to learn something, not all the intensive lessons in the world will make one skerrick of the lesson stick. A parent needs to keep tabs on the child's development and ensure that when the child IS ready to learn, that social skills training is available. Medication Yes, you should medicate other conditions where appropriate and where recommended; but yes, ODD itself isn't the sort of thing that has any medication therapy that is valid, for it alone. Practical Suggestions for Parents Enlist others to help you. Yes, whatever methods you choose to use to manage your child, you need as many people on board as possible, for the sake of consistency. Also making use of extended family (where they are on board) is valuable for buying parents much-needed time out, to recharge batteries. Set up an appropriate school program Again, some good ideas here. Making sure that homework and assignments are dealt with in school and not at home - I applaud. A considerable amount of trouble is caused by homework being given to kids who simply are feeling burnt out by the end of the school day. Also, if you have a child on medications for ADHD, then those medications have often worn off by the end of the school day. Trying to get such a child to be able to concentrate well enough to do homework is a recipe for major battles. Handing the problem back to the school - definitely. And if the school knows just how difficult it is for the child, they may be more willing to find other ways to ensure that the lessons of the school day have been learned effectively. Also, if the child is on medications for ADHD, then getting homework done as an extension of the school day will help because it will be making best use of the last dregs of medications in the child's system. It also keeps the problems associated with schoolwork, in the school environment and not encroaching into the home environment. Access Community Services/Respite Foster Care Again, a heavy emphasis on homework happening at school after school. Also a good point (already made) to get as much help as possible from whatever services are available, in order to prevent parents burning out too fast. Make consequences relevant to the offence This is natural consequences - again, I agree. After all, natural consequences are far more like what happens in life generally. If you damage someone else's car in the car park - you don't get grounded by them with loss of TV privileges; you are instead expected to pay for the damage. Discover what your child is interested in/Handle the child positively Again, this is important (but also common sense). A child with ODD-type presentation is a child who is responding to what they perceive to be obstruction by others, to negativity, to the feeling that they can't do anything right. If you instead show the child that they are valued, that they have something worthwhile to contribute - it can begin to give them a glimmer of hope that perhaps it IS worth making the effort, after all. Residential Schools I have absolutely no experience here, so I bow to the article as a higher authority. Then comes a number of small points - all good common sense suggestions that have already been made. How to Begin Dealing With Your Child's Behaviour Start at Ground Zero. I do feel this will depend on the situation and the child. What I saw at this point of the article seemed not only a bit heavy-handed but also to be setting up for possibly harsh reactions. First, it begins negatively - "Your behaviour lately has been far form satisfactory." It then says to put up a list of expected behaviours and at the same time to pull back EVERYTHING until you're providing the bare basics only, with everything else to be earned. And I really do have a problems with this as a blanket discipline method. First - it's too easy for the list to be too long. Ross Greene says to keep the list of what you want to change, to a small number. Don't have Basket B too full or it will be overwhelming and seem far too hard. You also need to only work on the behaviours that the child CAN change - too often we as parents are guided by the calendar, or by family/friends/teachers who say, "He should be doing much better than this, at his age." Age is not the issue - what the child can actually do, IS the issue. Don't set up unrealistic expectations FOR THAT CHILD. If your child is unable to copy information accurately from the blackboard at school then some other way needs to be found, to make sure the child DOES get access to the information being presented. THe method you choose will have to take into account any problem the child might have. A child who has coding problems may need to have the information presented on paper, beside his workbook. A child who is blind will need information on tape. A child who is deaf will need information presented in whatever way he can best absorb the information. You modify the instruction method according to what the student can handle. A three year old child should not be expected to do complex algebra, unless he is a maths prodigy. A fifteen year old child who is learning-impaired and/or developmentally delayed should not be expected to learn differential calculus at quite the same rate or in the same way as other non-impaired students the same age. He certainly shouldn't be penalised for his failure to learn this. We need to THINK and see things from the child's perspective, before we assume the behaviour problems are under the child's complete control. To punish for something not under the child's complete control, is (I think) to risk setting back your progress. But if you feel your child IS able to learn/comply, then yes - the suggested method is good. Build on the Positives Certainly. Some good advice in this. With the proviso - you do need to make sure you are praising appropriately, also be careful to not sound patronising. Use Teachable Moments to your advantage Always a good thing, although my kids now roll their eyes when I snap into didactic mode. Be careful to not overdo this, like I have clearly done! But certainly, you should explain things as best as the kids can understand. It is very important to give these kids as much understanding as they can handle - it actually increases their sense of being in control, of not being caught by surprise. It thereby reduces their anxiety which should then flow on to a reduction in raging in response to things they can't change or control. Again, common sense. Pick Your Battles/Take a break from the conflict Again, very much what Ross Greene makes clear. To argue is tiring; for a parent to argue with a child is just as tiring. For a parent to LOSE an argument with a child is to not only lose face, but to lose authority. This predisposes you to a greater chance of losing next time, because the child will feel stronger and will have learnt that if he persists, he has a better chance of winning. So pick your battles, choose only the ones you know you will win. Taking a break - when you feel tired, when you feel the argument is beginning to repeat, when you feel you are in danger of losing - walk away. But you shouldn't do this to often simply if you are losing, because the child will pick up on this and will follow you, persisting in arguing because they can smell victory. They will also lose respect for you if you use avoidance as a debating technique. So be careful, don't overuse it. Don't keep misbehaviour a secret I can't see why this deserves a point on its own, this is perhaps better covered with "Speak the Truth". If your child sees you being truthful, you are modelling truth for them to learn to use it also. It sometimes takes courage to be truthful, it is also deserving of respect. Instead of saying, "Don't keep misbehaviour a secret" the emphasis needs to be on honesty, on frank communication, on keeping people in the loop, on Truth. Quality Time Definitely important. Again, this comes in with being positive, showing your child you love him/her unconditionally, in 'catching your child being good', in saying positive things, in appropriately praising your child. Spending quality time with the child SHOULDN'T need to be reminded, but sadly we often don't do this. Spending one-on-one quality time with ALL your children is also worthy of mention here. Connecting with your child should be emphasised here as well. Connecting with your child is really important - because it helps you have a better understanding, which helps YOU have a better idea of what to expect from them. Remaining points: don't take it personally, stay calm - very important. Again, it's all been covered. But when the word "defiant" gets used, it is very hard to not take things personally, when they are being done by a child bearing the label of "defiant". The reason you shouldn't take it personally - because often the child is NOT in control, what you are seeing is not a considered, deliberate response of a naughty child but is more likely the panicked, terrified, desperate behaviour of a very anxious, panicked kid. I had to bathe a stray kitten that was covered in fleas. The only way I had to do this was in the shower, with me. A warm shower, followed by a hot air blower (not too hot) to dry him off. But the kitten in a panic scratched my arm. Should I have been angry with the kitten? Of course not - he was being held under the shower faucet, HE didn't know that I wasn't about to drown him. Later while stroking the kitten as he was drying in front of the warm air blower, the kitten was purring. The scratch was forgotten. It was no longer relevant. I'm sure the kitten was also more comfortable without all those fleas. I know we household members were very happy the kitten had no more fleas. I did not take the scratch personally, although my wrist still bears the scar. Give Genuine Choices This again comes back to the WHY for these kids, and is a point that should be up near the beginning. It comes to the heart of why these kids are so prickly much of the time, because they are trying to make sense of the world, plus they are often impulsive, plus they have s short fuse. Ross Greene calls these kids"inflexible-explosive" for good reason. A lot of apparent ODD is caused when we try to over-control these kids, because it seems the logical way to handle them. But it is not. It is counterproductive to try to assert OUR controls onto them, when these kids are struggling already with their own sense of being out of control. If we instead give them the sense that they CAN exert their own controls, that our role is to help them apply their own brakes instead of us doing it for them, then we will see a reduction in them fighting us every inch of the way. I know I keep championing Ross Greene's "The Explosive Child". It was you guys who taught me this (so blame yourselves!). It's darn good stuff, it explains it all well, it is SIMPLE, common sense, self-explanatory. There are some very simple rules. It needn't be so complicated. 1) Get inside the child's head, work out how the world seems form their point of view. What can they do? What can't they do? What makes them upset? What makes them happy? 2) Then USE that information in a positive way to give the child back some sense of control, become the child's facilitator and stop being the person who only exists to say, "No," or "Stop that!". Instead, be as positive and supportive as you can be. 3) Don't take any of the negativity or hatefulness on board personally, recognise that a lot of it is born in anxiety and frustration rather than directed at you. Keep calm, stay positive, do not engage in any battle you can't win. 4) Work on lists of what you want to change but keep those lists small and manageable (for all of you). KISS Principle. 5) Don't ground, remove privileges, put restrictions in place unless they are also natural consequences/related to the misdemeanour. For example, a child who consistently comes home past curfew will need to stay home for a few evenings instead, to recover from the stresses of being so late; and to also help them learn a better relationship with time. 6) Communicate. be open. Get as many people on board with this system as possible, to ensure consistency. 7) Look after yourself, keep up your own strength emotionally and physically. Above all else, learning to handle a kid with ODD generally requires you to change your mind-set. Even if you think you already have - you need to always keep mentally touching base, to see if you have inadvertently slipped back into old habits, if you have let more negativity creep back in than is good for your relationship, or if there is anything else you need to be alert to. It is very difficult to do all this, while at the back of your mind lurks the word "defiant". If any part of you thinks the child is doing this deliberately, you will feel (rightly) resentful. This then sets up a competition between you and the child, which you, the parent, feel you MUST win. Once you step away from your necessary role as facilitator, you are stepping back into the role of adversary, and the child will then automatically snap back into competition mode, to oppose your every move/action/word and you will be back in your old rut. It's not easy to parent a child with a label of ODD. But it needn't be made too impossible, either. Some of us will struggle more, depending on what else is wrong. All we can do, is our best. If this falls short - then don't bet yourself up about it. You DID do your best, after all. Marg [/QUOTE]
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