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Detachment is not that you should own nothing; it's that nothing should own you.
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 639707" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>Thanks to each of you for such strengthening responses for me.</p><p></p><p>:O)</p><p></p><p>I have been told too, that the kids act out most harshly to the person they trust to love them through it.</p><p></p><p>There was a time when I thought that was the way to do it, too. When I thought I was meant to listen, and that the bad things could be pulled out and looked at and changed up, that way. But I learned, here on the site, that maybe that was where I was like, standing on my child (my son, in this case) to pat myself on the back for being such a kind, tolerant and blah, blah, blah.</p><p></p><p>I came to see the utter lack of respect for the person treating us badly, if we don't let any of that stick, if we don't take them and what they say seriously.</p><p></p><p>They are strong enough. They do know better.</p><p></p><p>And it is a mark of respect to them to say so.</p><p></p><p>There is a kind of true thing in there, somewhere. Life proceeds along a kind of continuum, it seems to me. We fight to be the best we know...and over time, that best thing, that triumph of self creation, gets to be a caricature of what was real, once.</p><p></p><p>Then, we have to start all over.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>I don't know that I am a good grandmother, really. It was so easy, so effortless really, when the kids were little. But within the past year, I have had to tell each of my granddaughters she could not come to live here with us. Good things have happened ~ way, way better things ~ than would have happened, had we encouraged them to come home.</p><p></p><p>But I didn't know then, when they asked, what would happen.</p><p></p><p>The fifteen year old is making her way back, having problems crop up here or there, but she is doing ~ she is able to talk about how it feels to be who she is, now. </p><p></p><p>She is able to talk about the differences between herself and other teens. About the things they will never be able to empathize with, and the loneliness of that.</p><p></p><p>Our refusing to take her taught her some things she needed to know, I think, about wildness and running away and choosing what we choose.... But again, I did not know that when I refused to take her.</p><p></p><p>It was a hard thing.</p><p></p><p>She had to stay with her mother. And then, her mother sent her away.</p><p></p><p>But that seems to have been exactly the right thing.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>The 21 year old took the reins of her life and is functioning, taking the challenges, beautifully.</p><p></p><p>She is doing well.</p><p></p><p>The fifteen year old...we have conversations now that would never have happened, if she were still presenting the granddaughter I needed her to be and hiding the rest. </p><p></p><p>It's a whole different way of being a grandmother.</p><p></p><p>The 21 year old....</p><p></p><p>There too, the conversations are brutal and honest and real in a way that could never have happened, had we encouraged her to come home. There are issues we all need to work out for ourselves. Family is there to help us do that, but it is hard to know what the honest response is or what it means, or which honest response is the real one.</p><p></p><p>Which response I make comes from what I know love to be.</p><p></p><p>And it's really different than protecting. </p><p></p><p>Sometimes, the loving and therefore, correct, response means risking, means letting our child go, with clear instructions regarding determinedly creating where they will place themselves, next. </p><p></p><p>Scary stuff.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>Anyway, that is how I try to figure out what the hallway to say. (I got that from MWM. She never says bad words in her posts, have you noticed? I like that. The word I meant was hell, of course. Not hallway.)</p><p></p><p>I have been required to come up with more than kindness or understanding or any of that kind of thing. I have had to let go and take risks and be honest about what I see, and about what I will or will not do, and why.</p><p></p><p>It was a betrayal of being their grandma of the first magnitude.</p><p></p><p>But so far, this seems to have been the right thing. </p><p></p><p>But the reality is very different than the one everyone else seems to have.</p><p></p><p>Isn't that a strangely true thing for all of us, here. Our relationships with our children and grands are out there on the far edge, where things are very real.</p><p></p><p>I wonder sometimes whether, far from having done something wrong in our parenting, the parents here on the site were the kinds of parents (or grands) that have given their descendents a kind of strength that enables them to push through to the edges of what is possible in their lives.</p><p></p><p>I am probably all wet on that one. </p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>I was thinking about MWM and 37's response to news of her illness.</p><p></p><p>Those responses 37 had were the truth.</p><p></p><p>That is how he really feels about his mother. Whatever he says and however he treats her (And he is often so darn mean! As is my own son.) he put that aside in an instant and spoke what was true.</p><p></p><p>Now...where did that come from.</p><p></p><p>Where does what we believe our kids think about us ~ the rattiness and the anger and the bad words ~ where is that really coming from?</p><p></p><p>Is that meanness what lives in their hearts and colors their worlds and they are mad at us because they are mad at themselves?</p><p></p><p>WTF, as someone has surely said at some time or another, and I am just repeating, here.</p><p></p><p>(Sorry, MWM. What the hallway just doesn't have that same rhythm.)</p><p></p><p>:O)</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>Part of what I saw there was 37's willingness to be strong for MWM, to stand up for her if she needed his strength. So, the question becomes (does the question become?) I don't know exactly, but could it be that our kids still believe, on some level, just like they did when they were little, that we could magically fix the wrong things and that is why they are so mad with us?</p><p></p><p>Could that be where the feeling of betrayal comes in?</p><p></p><p>I know darn well there is something here.</p><p></p><p>I remember Albatross' thread on magical thinking....</p><p></p><p>Anger seems not to have any basis; when we look deeply enough into it, it seems always to be about what we needed, or about who we wanted to be, or how we needed to be seen.</p><p></p><p>A hurt place.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Protecting Ourselves from Adult difficult children, wakeupcall.</p><p></p><p>That thread is on Substance Abuse forum.</p><p></p><p>If you can tell us more about what is happening with your daughter, we can share with you any experience we have.</p><p></p><p>Maybe, like me, you will need to be one of those grandmas who loves her grandchildren for their sakes, and not her own.</p><p></p><p>They are still yours, whether your daughter lets you see them, or not.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 639707, member: 17461"] Thanks to each of you for such strengthening responses for me. :O) I have been told too, that the kids act out most harshly to the person they trust to love them through it. There was a time when I thought that was the way to do it, too. When I thought I was meant to listen, and that the bad things could be pulled out and looked at and changed up, that way. But I learned, here on the site, that maybe that was where I was like, standing on my child (my son, in this case) to pat myself on the back for being such a kind, tolerant and blah, blah, blah. I came to see the utter lack of respect for the person treating us badly, if we don't let any of that stick, if we don't take them and what they say seriously. They are strong enough. They do know better. And it is a mark of respect to them to say so. There is a kind of true thing in there, somewhere. Life proceeds along a kind of continuum, it seems to me. We fight to be the best we know...and over time, that best thing, that triumph of self creation, gets to be a caricature of what was real, once. Then, we have to start all over. *** I don't know that I am a good grandmother, really. It was so easy, so effortless really, when the kids were little. But within the past year, I have had to tell each of my granddaughters she could not come to live here with us. Good things have happened ~ way, way better things ~ than would have happened, had we encouraged them to come home. But I didn't know then, when they asked, what would happen. The fifteen year old is making her way back, having problems crop up here or there, but she is doing ~ she is able to talk about how it feels to be who she is, now. She is able to talk about the differences between herself and other teens. About the things they will never be able to empathize with, and the loneliness of that. Our refusing to take her taught her some things she needed to know, I think, about wildness and running away and choosing what we choose.... But again, I did not know that when I refused to take her. It was a hard thing. She had to stay with her mother. And then, her mother sent her away. But that seems to have been exactly the right thing. *** The 21 year old took the reins of her life and is functioning, taking the challenges, beautifully. She is doing well. The fifteen year old...we have conversations now that would never have happened, if she were still presenting the granddaughter I needed her to be and hiding the rest. It's a whole different way of being a grandmother. The 21 year old.... There too, the conversations are brutal and honest and real in a way that could never have happened, had we encouraged her to come home. There are issues we all need to work out for ourselves. Family is there to help us do that, but it is hard to know what the honest response is or what it means, or which honest response is the real one. Which response I make comes from what I know love to be. And it's really different than protecting. Sometimes, the loving and therefore, correct, response means risking, means letting our child go, with clear instructions regarding determinedly creating where they will place themselves, next. Scary stuff. *** Anyway, that is how I try to figure out what the hallway to say. (I got that from MWM. She never says bad words in her posts, have you noticed? I like that. The word I meant was hell, of course. Not hallway.) I have been required to come up with more than kindness or understanding or any of that kind of thing. I have had to let go and take risks and be honest about what I see, and about what I will or will not do, and why. It was a betrayal of being their grandma of the first magnitude. But so far, this seems to have been the right thing. But the reality is very different than the one everyone else seems to have. Isn't that a strangely true thing for all of us, here. Our relationships with our children and grands are out there on the far edge, where things are very real. I wonder sometimes whether, far from having done something wrong in our parenting, the parents here on the site were the kinds of parents (or grands) that have given their descendents a kind of strength that enables them to push through to the edges of what is possible in their lives. I am probably all wet on that one. *** I was thinking about MWM and 37's response to news of her illness. Those responses 37 had were the truth. That is how he really feels about his mother. Whatever he says and however he treats her (And he is often so darn mean! As is my own son.) he put that aside in an instant and spoke what was true. Now...where did that come from. Where does what we believe our kids think about us ~ the rattiness and the anger and the bad words ~ where is that really coming from? Is that meanness what lives in their hearts and colors their worlds and they are mad at us because they are mad at themselves? WTF, as someone has surely said at some time or another, and I am just repeating, here. (Sorry, MWM. What the hallway just doesn't have that same rhythm.) :O) *** Part of what I saw there was 37's willingness to be strong for MWM, to stand up for her if she needed his strength. So, the question becomes (does the question become?) I don't know exactly, but could it be that our kids still believe, on some level, just like they did when they were little, that we could magically fix the wrong things and that is why they are so mad with us? Could that be where the feeling of betrayal comes in? I know darn well there is something here. I remember Albatross' thread on magical thinking.... Anger seems not to have any basis; when we look deeply enough into it, it seems always to be about what we needed, or about who we wanted to be, or how we needed to be seen. A hurt place. Protecting Ourselves from Adult difficult children, wakeupcall. That thread is on Substance Abuse forum. If you can tell us more about what is happening with your daughter, we can share with you any experience we have. Maybe, like me, you will need to be one of those grandmas who loves her grandchildren for their sakes, and not her own. They are still yours, whether your daughter lets you see them, or not. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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