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difficult child is up to old tricks
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 107337" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Hi, sounds bad.</p><p></p><p>Stims aren't working - I'm inclined to your opinion, this is sounding less and less like ADHD.</p><p></p><p>About the anti-psychotics - I can't give you any assurances there since your son is so different to mine and you're understandably gun-shy with medications, but I CAN tell you - difficult child 3 was started on risperdal when he was 7 or 8 years old. He had been started on Zoloft when he was 5, but it kept him awake so badly that we had to take him off it, any benefit was outweighed by difficult child 3 getting 'wired' and not able to cope with the lack of sleep.</p><p></p><p>Our experience with risperdal - difficult child 3 had no problems on it. The trouble was, he also had minimal benefit, and for the cost - unless they label him as psychotic (which I didn't want for difficult child 3, but it sounds like it might be worth considering for your difficult child) then you're up for the full non-PBS price, which is about A$70. Depending on dosage, one box could last several months. We got six months out of one box for difficult child 1.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 1 did find some benefit, but he had to take such a low dose because of the side effects, that we didn't get to see much.</p><p></p><p>Side effects - you will love them, I suspect. He eats, and he sleeps. difficult child 1 had to limit his medications to quarter of a tablet, taken at bedtime. He would be asleep half an hour after taking it, so taking it during the day was unworkable for him. And he doubled his weight in six months. Started skinny, then ended up chubby. When we took him off the risperdal, the weight came off again.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3 - may have had a small amount of weight gain (yet he was on three times the amount that his big brother was) and no sedation. But it did seem to ease the anxiety and 'edginess'. When we took difficult child 3 off it, he lost weight which concerned the doctor. He went from 35 Kg to 30 Kg in three months, at age 10.</p><p></p><p>As for hospitals and other services - you could TRY taking him to Emergency when he's in crisis (such as just having choked himself, cut himself deliberately, trying to electrocute himself) but with the long waits, I don't know if -</p><p></p><p>1) you could stand the stress of the waiting room for hours, or</p><p></p><p>2) he will be displaying problem symptoms by the time he is seen.</p><p></p><p>For the benefit of those not in Australia - we have a good health system, but where it falls down right now is in mental health care, especially for children and especially over the Christmas break.</p><p></p><p>Taking him to hospital each time DOES keep a record on the books if his history of self-harm and violence to other people. You need that for so many reasons. If your local hospital seems to be disinterested, then maybe arrange for his next severe outburst to happen while in the vicinity of a much larger specialist children's hospital. "I was visiting friends in the Westmead area when this started happening, so we came straight round..." It's cheeky, but it might be the angle you need (shouldn't have to be so sneaky, though).</p><p></p><p>Have you talked to the police about what you can do, using their resources, to keep yourself and your daughter safe? They aren't able to do as much as the police in the US do, but they may still be able to fast-track some services, or access to them, that you're struggling with right now.</p><p></p><p>I know you are doing absolutely everything you can, you are a smart person who works proactively on this, as far as you can. I am amazed at just how much you have tried, and still not had the help you need. This is a failure of our health system, not a failure in you.</p><p></p><p>How are you going, otherwise? Are you managing to stay in the workforce at all, or has all of this killed any chance of working? I hesitate to suggest Distance Ed to you, you would have even more time with him being difficult. You really do need to get some sort of handle on this, a diagnosis that fits and some viable treatment. I can really feel your frustration - I really don't know how you've coped even this far.</p><p></p><p>Is there a support network for childhood bipolar, or schizophrenia, or similar? Maybe they would have some pediatrician names you could see, "for a second opinion". The risk is seeing someone and getting a revolving door diagnosis, but your current bloke seems to be ineffectual at the moment.</p><p></p><p>A thought - don't know if it will work - if you ask to talk to him and he is unavailable, can you ask the receptionist if he has a locum you could call, or what else she recommends in an emergency? Also when you DO see the doctor, explain how you desperately needed to talk to him the day difficult child was braining his sister and trying to electrocute himself; what can you do in such a circumstance? If you can set up, ahead of time, making contact, then when you next are in crisis and talking to the receptionist you should be able to say, "Dr H told me to contact him immediately, he said he would get back to me..." (or whatever Dr H tells you is the procedure in this situation). Hopefully the doctor will set out an emergency management plan for crises like this. </p><p></p><p>If he won't, find another pediatrician. And I don't say that lightly. But while this bloke doesn't seem to 'get' the severity and desperation of all this, he won't really understand what you are dealing with. A support network hopefully will have some names of docs who DO get it, who WILL be there for you. And if you have trouble getting a referral, then go find a bulk-bill clinic somewhere, they usually are happy to hand over pieces of paper just on your description of the problems. This is one time when that is useful.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 107337, member: 1991"] Hi, sounds bad. Stims aren't working - I'm inclined to your opinion, this is sounding less and less like ADHD. About the anti-psychotics - I can't give you any assurances there since your son is so different to mine and you're understandably gun-shy with medications, but I CAN tell you - difficult child 3 was started on risperdal when he was 7 or 8 years old. He had been started on Zoloft when he was 5, but it kept him awake so badly that we had to take him off it, any benefit was outweighed by difficult child 3 getting 'wired' and not able to cope with the lack of sleep. Our experience with risperdal - difficult child 3 had no problems on it. The trouble was, he also had minimal benefit, and for the cost - unless they label him as psychotic (which I didn't want for difficult child 3, but it sounds like it might be worth considering for your difficult child) then you're up for the full non-PBS price, which is about A$70. Depending on dosage, one box could last several months. We got six months out of one box for difficult child 1. difficult child 1 did find some benefit, but he had to take such a low dose because of the side effects, that we didn't get to see much. Side effects - you will love them, I suspect. He eats, and he sleeps. difficult child 1 had to limit his medications to quarter of a tablet, taken at bedtime. He would be asleep half an hour after taking it, so taking it during the day was unworkable for him. And he doubled his weight in six months. Started skinny, then ended up chubby. When we took him off the risperdal, the weight came off again. difficult child 3 - may have had a small amount of weight gain (yet he was on three times the amount that his big brother was) and no sedation. But it did seem to ease the anxiety and 'edginess'. When we took difficult child 3 off it, he lost weight which concerned the doctor. He went from 35 Kg to 30 Kg in three months, at age 10. As for hospitals and other services - you could TRY taking him to Emergency when he's in crisis (such as just having choked himself, cut himself deliberately, trying to electrocute himself) but with the long waits, I don't know if - 1) you could stand the stress of the waiting room for hours, or 2) he will be displaying problem symptoms by the time he is seen. For the benefit of those not in Australia - we have a good health system, but where it falls down right now is in mental health care, especially for children and especially over the Christmas break. Taking him to hospital each time DOES keep a record on the books if his history of self-harm and violence to other people. You need that for so many reasons. If your local hospital seems to be disinterested, then maybe arrange for his next severe outburst to happen while in the vicinity of a much larger specialist children's hospital. "I was visiting friends in the Westmead area when this started happening, so we came straight round..." It's cheeky, but it might be the angle you need (shouldn't have to be so sneaky, though). Have you talked to the police about what you can do, using their resources, to keep yourself and your daughter safe? They aren't able to do as much as the police in the US do, but they may still be able to fast-track some services, or access to them, that you're struggling with right now. I know you are doing absolutely everything you can, you are a smart person who works proactively on this, as far as you can. I am amazed at just how much you have tried, and still not had the help you need. This is a failure of our health system, not a failure in you. How are you going, otherwise? Are you managing to stay in the workforce at all, or has all of this killed any chance of working? I hesitate to suggest Distance Ed to you, you would have even more time with him being difficult. You really do need to get some sort of handle on this, a diagnosis that fits and some viable treatment. I can really feel your frustration - I really don't know how you've coped even this far. Is there a support network for childhood bipolar, or schizophrenia, or similar? Maybe they would have some pediatrician names you could see, "for a second opinion". The risk is seeing someone and getting a revolving door diagnosis, but your current bloke seems to be ineffectual at the moment. A thought - don't know if it will work - if you ask to talk to him and he is unavailable, can you ask the receptionist if he has a locum you could call, or what else she recommends in an emergency? Also when you DO see the doctor, explain how you desperately needed to talk to him the day difficult child was braining his sister and trying to electrocute himself; what can you do in such a circumstance? If you can set up, ahead of time, making contact, then when you next are in crisis and talking to the receptionist you should be able to say, "Dr H told me to contact him immediately, he said he would get back to me..." (or whatever Dr H tells you is the procedure in this situation). Hopefully the doctor will set out an emergency management plan for crises like this. If he won't, find another pediatrician. And I don't say that lightly. But while this bloke doesn't seem to 'get' the severity and desperation of all this, he won't really understand what you are dealing with. A support network hopefully will have some names of docs who DO get it, who WILL be there for you. And if you have trouble getting a referral, then go find a bulk-bill clinic somewhere, they usually are happy to hand over pieces of paper just on your description of the problems. This is one time when that is useful. Marg [/QUOTE]
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