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disgusted with my difficult child 2...
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 363449" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>THrowing a big tantrum over a school-based task like tat - yep, that fits with Asperger's. And we found we had to totally change our mind-set on this. Yes, you do feel at times that you now have a spoiled child on your hands (on top of a child who is still just as dysfunctional) but this takes time, patience and no backsliding. Sorry. This is really difficult, especially when the parental mind keeps sapping back to "She shouldn't be behaving like this AT HER AGE. She should know better..."</p><p></p><p>The thing is - they can hold it together, with considerable effort, sometimes. That is why it is easy to think that they are deliberately being a problem. But if you can get inside her head you can see why X will trigger her (and so severely) and why Y does not.</p><p></p><p>You try, you make accommodations - and maybe there's some slow progress. But every time you blow a fuse and throw your hands up in the air, you undermine all your progress with her. It's back to square one, unfortunately.</p><p></p><p>I would suggest you consider Asperger's as a working hypothesis. Because using that model, I can understand why she would throw this tantrum, and why it needs a different kind of handling.</p><p></p><p>Yes, panic is a big factor here - panic and anxiety. How I would have handled this would depend on which kid of mine was throwing the tantrum. Because each of them had distinctly different problems when it comes to writing tasks.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 1 - he can't mentally multi-task. For years, this meant he did NO writing tasks at all. He simply couldn't do it. We tried everything, including being rigid, strict and determined he was going to do the work. We have a large spare room which is separate to the house and has windows all round. We put him in this room with his books, his writing tools, his hi-lite pen and told him to get the work done. He was allowed out for meals and toilet, then bed. At various times either husband or myself would go in and sit with him, trying to help him work through the task. What he was supposed to do, was go through a text and summarise the important points, so he could use the points to write an essay. That was when we realised that he was simply incapable of looking at a text and finding what was important, and what was not. Because in order to do this he had to mentally manipulate several pieces of information in order to compare them, evaluate them and decide which was relevant and which was not. It was just too difficult for him. </p><p>We did tis over several weekends, he would spend the entire weekend in that room and although he was compliant, he could not achieve anything. We had to find a new method. We found, for difficult child 1, that mind-mapping helped. Unfortunately, he hated having to do it because he quickly associated mind-mapping with "I can't do this the usual way, therefore it is difficult".</p><p></p><p>Now to difficult child 3 - he CAN assess a text, although he does have difficulty determining what is important because unlike his brother, difficult child 3 can't understand anything which is abstract. But he can mentally multi-task. So difficult child 3 is able to create a story, for example. He can do writing tasks. He likes poetry (he told his teachers yesterday, in front of the class, that he likes poetry). He understands and can use various poetic devices. But he HATES writing tasks, especially handwriting, because he sees them as confronting, time-consuming and if it's handwriting, physically painful.</p><p></p><p>There is a subset of Asperger's which overlaps to hypermobile joints. This can mean that the person is more flexible, is able to touch toes (or at least reach a lot further) and is seen as being a good thing. it is not, because later in life these people develop osteoarthritis. Not always that much later, either - easy child 2/difficult child 2 showed osteoarthritis symptoms while still in her teens. difficult child 3 also sometimes chooses to wear a wrist splint because of pain. We noticed these problems in difficult child 3 when he was a pre-schooler - his pencil grip was very immature, but it was because it hurt him to hold a pencil the normal way. With a kid like tis - you look at their hands as they hold a pen, the finger joints at the tips bend the wrong way. Not all the way, but definitely beyond 90 degrees. This means that to control the pencil, they have to grip it more tightly. This causes fatigue and pain in the hand and when they have to do this every time they write, they soon learn to avoid writing tasks. They're not always aware of why they are avoiding writing tasks. Also, they can't understand why others don't also complain - this is normal for them, you see. We found that allowing use of keyboard to do writing tasks helped a lot. Also I have offered to type while the child dictates, then he will read what I have written and edit it.</p><p></p><p>Another problem - the child may have difficulty with the written word. Dyslexia can also be connected with Asperger's. Thankfully, not in the case of my kids. But a nephew or three of mine have the dyslexia component as well. Dyslexics can get very good at avoiding letting anyone see their problem. They would rather be seen as immature or badly behaved, than for people to discover the problem they have with the written word. Because to not be able to read properly, is to be considered "dumb".</p><p>So again - when your child is beginning to ramp up in distress over this, suggest you work as a team. The reasons for the difficulty can be multifactorial, but the first thing I do, is offer to type while the child dictates. If this resolves the issue, then consider your child has an added problem with physically writing (or typing). </p><p></p><p>If the problem is still a hassle, then your child may also have difficulty because:</p><p></p><p>1) the task may be too open-ended. difficult child 1 & difficult child 3 had trouble making value judgements, in choosing the validity of this over that. This meant they could not decide what to write about. Trying to decide became very time-consuming (wasteful of time). So (after checking with teachers) I developed some 'tricks' to help the kid make the choice. Sometimes it simple is a matter of you helping the child choose.</p><p></p><p>2) the task may be too complex to carry out mentally. In which case - find a way of helping draft, on paper, some ideas. difficult child 3 won't do his own mind-maps, but he will talk me through doing one for him. Mind you, what he ends up writing often bears little resemblance to the mind-map we drew, but it doesn't matter - we got him started. And once these kids can make a start, they can usually keep going.</p><p></p><p>When the child is raging, or upset, is not the time to try to sort out your concerns over disrespect. The level of panic or distress is extreme and these kids WILL express their panic just as we would if we felt that bad. But that doens't mean you have to let the bad behaviour slide - not at all. But you choose your tome, and make your own (fast) mental list of what you want to achieve, right now.</p><p>In your case in the above incident - the first thing you want to achieve, is to stop the tantrum. or wait it out. The second thing you want to achieve, is your child getting the writing task done. Never down-play the task or belittle the child by saying, "Goodness, I don't understand what the fuss is about! This is so easy!" Because at the moment, for your child, it is NOT easy. Instead you say, "Take a deep breath. Let me help you. Let's try yo find a way to make this work for you."</p><p></p><p>Disrespect comes last. A long last. Once the child is calm and the task out of the way, then you can try to talk. Then you say, "When you get upset, it makes me sad too. And it hurts me when you say those things. I try to not disrespect you; I don't shout at you. Please try to not shout at me or say rude things to me. It doesn't help at all, it only makes more trouble for you."</p><p>It is not achieving anything, if in sorting out your disrespect concerns, you make your child upset again. Because an upset child feels justified to be angry and upset. Therefore any reason you try to apply, gets absolutely nowhere. But if you can help your child stay calm, but still make even half a point, that half point stays made and stands a chance of sticking in that very jumbled and highly strung brain.</p><p></p><p>And as husband & I used to tag-team when sitting with difficult child 1 in the "outhouse" - when you've reached your limit, leave the room. Walk away. Leave the house if you must. But remove yourself before you blow up. By doing this you're buying yourself time to cope, plus showing your child that walking away is better than staying and raging.</p><p></p><p>When it is suggested you walk around her on eggshells, you shouldn't feel the need to let her completely take charge. There are ways to make this work, and still keep your home working according to your rules. But you do have to change your "she's the child, I'm the parent" approach which is how we all would normally try to parent. You can still be the boss, purely because you have more experience at living in this world, but you need to move your relationship with your child to a different footing. I've found the flatmate approach can help you begin to find a way through. If you consider yourself to be someone sharing the same living space (as when you were first living away from home and having to share with other people) then you try to remember how you behaved towards your flatmates. Your attitude to your child should be similar. Stop and listen to yourself when you speak to other family members in your household. Would you speak that way if it were your mother-in-law? Your best friend living with you while her house is being remodelled?</p><p></p><p>Of course as parents we should be allowed to be the parents we believe we should be. It's not fair - but neither is it fair to be foisted with difficult child as a child. This isn't about what is fair. it is about what IS, and the best way to cope with the situation.</p><p></p><p>If it's any consolation, this parenting method is also the one likely to teach your children the fastest, how to live independently. It's a fast-track to adult responsibility for them. It can also help you sidsestep the worst of the teenager traumas.</p><p></p><p>Read "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. Find the older editions and read those also, they are actually quite different. But all useful. And hey - what else is working?</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 363449, member: 1991"] THrowing a big tantrum over a school-based task like tat - yep, that fits with Asperger's. And we found we had to totally change our mind-set on this. Yes, you do feel at times that you now have a spoiled child on your hands (on top of a child who is still just as dysfunctional) but this takes time, patience and no backsliding. Sorry. This is really difficult, especially when the parental mind keeps sapping back to "She shouldn't be behaving like this AT HER AGE. She should know better..." The thing is - they can hold it together, with considerable effort, sometimes. That is why it is easy to think that they are deliberately being a problem. But if you can get inside her head you can see why X will trigger her (and so severely) and why Y does not. You try, you make accommodations - and maybe there's some slow progress. But every time you blow a fuse and throw your hands up in the air, you undermine all your progress with her. It's back to square one, unfortunately. I would suggest you consider Asperger's as a working hypothesis. Because using that model, I can understand why she would throw this tantrum, and why it needs a different kind of handling. Yes, panic is a big factor here - panic and anxiety. How I would have handled this would depend on which kid of mine was throwing the tantrum. Because each of them had distinctly different problems when it comes to writing tasks. difficult child 1 - he can't mentally multi-task. For years, this meant he did NO writing tasks at all. He simply couldn't do it. We tried everything, including being rigid, strict and determined he was going to do the work. We have a large spare room which is separate to the house and has windows all round. We put him in this room with his books, his writing tools, his hi-lite pen and told him to get the work done. He was allowed out for meals and toilet, then bed. At various times either husband or myself would go in and sit with him, trying to help him work through the task. What he was supposed to do, was go through a text and summarise the important points, so he could use the points to write an essay. That was when we realised that he was simply incapable of looking at a text and finding what was important, and what was not. Because in order to do this he had to mentally manipulate several pieces of information in order to compare them, evaluate them and decide which was relevant and which was not. It was just too difficult for him. We did tis over several weekends, he would spend the entire weekend in that room and although he was compliant, he could not achieve anything. We had to find a new method. We found, for difficult child 1, that mind-mapping helped. Unfortunately, he hated having to do it because he quickly associated mind-mapping with "I can't do this the usual way, therefore it is difficult". Now to difficult child 3 - he CAN assess a text, although he does have difficulty determining what is important because unlike his brother, difficult child 3 can't understand anything which is abstract. But he can mentally multi-task. So difficult child 3 is able to create a story, for example. He can do writing tasks. He likes poetry (he told his teachers yesterday, in front of the class, that he likes poetry). He understands and can use various poetic devices. But he HATES writing tasks, especially handwriting, because he sees them as confronting, time-consuming and if it's handwriting, physically painful. There is a subset of Asperger's which overlaps to hypermobile joints. This can mean that the person is more flexible, is able to touch toes (or at least reach a lot further) and is seen as being a good thing. it is not, because later in life these people develop osteoarthritis. Not always that much later, either - easy child 2/difficult child 2 showed osteoarthritis symptoms while still in her teens. difficult child 3 also sometimes chooses to wear a wrist splint because of pain. We noticed these problems in difficult child 3 when he was a pre-schooler - his pencil grip was very immature, but it was because it hurt him to hold a pencil the normal way. With a kid like tis - you look at their hands as they hold a pen, the finger joints at the tips bend the wrong way. Not all the way, but definitely beyond 90 degrees. This means that to control the pencil, they have to grip it more tightly. This causes fatigue and pain in the hand and when they have to do this every time they write, they soon learn to avoid writing tasks. They're not always aware of why they are avoiding writing tasks. Also, they can't understand why others don't also complain - this is normal for them, you see. We found that allowing use of keyboard to do writing tasks helped a lot. Also I have offered to type while the child dictates, then he will read what I have written and edit it. Another problem - the child may have difficulty with the written word. Dyslexia can also be connected with Asperger's. Thankfully, not in the case of my kids. But a nephew or three of mine have the dyslexia component as well. Dyslexics can get very good at avoiding letting anyone see their problem. They would rather be seen as immature or badly behaved, than for people to discover the problem they have with the written word. Because to not be able to read properly, is to be considered "dumb". So again - when your child is beginning to ramp up in distress over this, suggest you work as a team. The reasons for the difficulty can be multifactorial, but the first thing I do, is offer to type while the child dictates. If this resolves the issue, then consider your child has an added problem with physically writing (or typing). If the problem is still a hassle, then your child may also have difficulty because: 1) the task may be too open-ended. difficult child 1 & difficult child 3 had trouble making value judgements, in choosing the validity of this over that. This meant they could not decide what to write about. Trying to decide became very time-consuming (wasteful of time). So (after checking with teachers) I developed some 'tricks' to help the kid make the choice. Sometimes it simple is a matter of you helping the child choose. 2) the task may be too complex to carry out mentally. In which case - find a way of helping draft, on paper, some ideas. difficult child 3 won't do his own mind-maps, but he will talk me through doing one for him. Mind you, what he ends up writing often bears little resemblance to the mind-map we drew, but it doesn't matter - we got him started. And once these kids can make a start, they can usually keep going. When the child is raging, or upset, is not the time to try to sort out your concerns over disrespect. The level of panic or distress is extreme and these kids WILL express their panic just as we would if we felt that bad. But that doens't mean you have to let the bad behaviour slide - not at all. But you choose your tome, and make your own (fast) mental list of what you want to achieve, right now. In your case in the above incident - the first thing you want to achieve, is to stop the tantrum. or wait it out. The second thing you want to achieve, is your child getting the writing task done. Never down-play the task or belittle the child by saying, "Goodness, I don't understand what the fuss is about! This is so easy!" Because at the moment, for your child, it is NOT easy. Instead you say, "Take a deep breath. Let me help you. Let's try yo find a way to make this work for you." Disrespect comes last. A long last. Once the child is calm and the task out of the way, then you can try to talk. Then you say, "When you get upset, it makes me sad too. And it hurts me when you say those things. I try to not disrespect you; I don't shout at you. Please try to not shout at me or say rude things to me. It doesn't help at all, it only makes more trouble for you." It is not achieving anything, if in sorting out your disrespect concerns, you make your child upset again. Because an upset child feels justified to be angry and upset. Therefore any reason you try to apply, gets absolutely nowhere. But if you can help your child stay calm, but still make even half a point, that half point stays made and stands a chance of sticking in that very jumbled and highly strung brain. And as husband & I used to tag-team when sitting with difficult child 1 in the "outhouse" - when you've reached your limit, leave the room. Walk away. Leave the house if you must. But remove yourself before you blow up. By doing this you're buying yourself time to cope, plus showing your child that walking away is better than staying and raging. When it is suggested you walk around her on eggshells, you shouldn't feel the need to let her completely take charge. There are ways to make this work, and still keep your home working according to your rules. But you do have to change your "she's the child, I'm the parent" approach which is how we all would normally try to parent. You can still be the boss, purely because you have more experience at living in this world, but you need to move your relationship with your child to a different footing. I've found the flatmate approach can help you begin to find a way through. If you consider yourself to be someone sharing the same living space (as when you were first living away from home and having to share with other people) then you try to remember how you behaved towards your flatmates. Your attitude to your child should be similar. Stop and listen to yourself when you speak to other family members in your household. Would you speak that way if it were your mother-in-law? Your best friend living with you while her house is being remodelled? Of course as parents we should be allowed to be the parents we believe we should be. It's not fair - but neither is it fair to be foisted with difficult child as a child. This isn't about what is fair. it is about what IS, and the best way to cope with the situation. If it's any consolation, this parenting method is also the one likely to teach your children the fastest, how to live independently. It's a fast-track to adult responsibility for them. It can also help you sidsestep the worst of the teenager traumas. Read "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. Find the older editions and read those also, they are actually quite different. But all useful. And hey - what else is working? Marg [/QUOTE]
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