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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 751704" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>This breaks my heart.</p><p></p><p>My son is the same. I believe I need to be flexible. But that's me. I have come to that place because I need my son. And he needs me. M was my partner. He now lives separately. But thankfully, he believes the same as do I. He is living with my J now. We both keep hoping that little by little my son will choose to change.This is the case with my son as well. I bear the brunt of his feelings.What are the behaviors that are odd and difficult, where he is not welcome to be with the family at Christmas? Is it the verbal abuse? Or something else?</p><p></p><p>You like me, seem to be caught between a rock and a hard place. While I understand why your husband would come to the end of his rope, I feel for you if he does not meet you half way. At the same time, can those of us with mentally ill adult children, have the same kinds of expectations as we would of another adult? I recognize your husband may be defending himself against pain that he cannot bear. Does this mean you must bear everything alone?Have you considered asking your husband to go to counseling with you?</p><p></p><p>At the other end, pressuring you, is your son. Oh. I know he does not intend to. But he is. He is a brilliant man who insists upon doing everything his way. Mentally ill or not he needs to understand, too, that you are caught in the same trap with him. And what impacts him, impacts you. And that you cannot stand it. You love him so. You have volunteered to enter the trap with him and stay there. Rather than leave him alone. He needs to recognize the cost to you. Not that you want to leave him. But that he needs to help you. By helping himself.</p><p></p><p>I recognize he is mentally ill and that his judgement is impaired. I understand how it is to push this boulder up the hill, again and again. But the thing is, your son cannot be absolved from responsibility for his own life. You cannot carry it all. Nobody could.</p><p></p><p>Not taking medication is a choice he needs to take responsibility for. If he chooses to not accept treatment, that would help him control his behavior, there are consequences to that. Mothers can't protect adult children from the consequences of their lives. I have come to believe it is wrong of me to do so. If your son decides to take a substance, that fuels his psychopathology and makes it so that others don't want to be around him, because he behaves badly, so be it. He has that choice. But how is it that you have to suffer the consequences with him? And bear them alone, at that.</p><p></p><p>He is capable of making better choices. He needs to step up. Or you need to step back. You can't live with him in this purgatory...if he is choosing to make it worse.</p><p></p><p>I recognize you feel unable to do this. I can't either. But your son needs to understand. This conversation needs to happen. Because it is true.</p><p></p><p>There are things you NEED from him.</p><p></p><p>Your son is making all kinds of choices, decisions. We need to recognize that part of our learning is to allow our sons dignity and respect as people. As men. They are not now, only our little boys. We need to be able to accept that these men are deciding things in their lives, that define their lives. And he is deciding in ways that are AGAINST your interests. For all of us there are consequences of our decisions. Mothers cannot be expected to bear the consequences of impossible choices.</p><p></p><p>You cannot keep holding yourself hostage with him. This is unhealthy for you. It's like you are giving up part of your humanity, your human dignity in order to keep yourself in the trap which is his illness. When he is making CHOICES that hurt himself and you. I think there comes a time when we need to save ourselves. To believe we are worthy of being saved. By our own choices.</p><p></p><p>Except I recognize how impossibly hard this is to do.</p><p></p><p>If he is abusing you and others, and that is due to substances he used, or the lack of medication and treatment compliance, how is it that his fantasy of Christmas needs to be indulged, at the expense of others? He has periods of rationality. He is a loving man. A good and decent and honest man. This needs to be communicated to him. That people will not want to be with him at Christmas because of how he acts. No matter how painful this is, he needs to confront it. The truth is necessary in order to change. He (Not you) needs to be responsible for the consequences of his choices.</p><p></p><p>I don't mean to come down hard on him. And certainly don't mean to come down hard on you. You are caught in a vice. Nobody can live like that. Nobody should. Little by little you will get yourself out.</p><p></p><p>Are you sure that you and your son are getting the support you both need from the rest of the family? Why is it you are left alone with this? Aren't the rest of the family his family too? Am I speaking too directly here? I don't know how else to say it.</p><p></p><p>I recognize that they are all of them fed up. Or find it too painful and difficult. But you are left alone...in this....</p><p></p><p>Maybe I live in a fantasy but I feel that you need not, should not, be alone with this. Your son needs to help you. Your husband needs to help you. And the rest of the family too needs to help. Everybody needs to step up. You can't do this alone. Nobody could.</p><p></p><p>All of this burden should not be on you only. Oh. I know there are others who will say, detach. But why? Shouldn't everybody be involved? </p><p></p><p>In one of the Scandinavian countries, Finland I think. Schizophrenia was all but eradicated. How? When anybody comes to show any symptoms of psychosis, the whole community supports the family. Their philosophy is inclusion not exclusion. But if a family can't do it alone, how can a mother?</p><p></p><p>PS Your son sounds like a wonderful person. A decent and good man. I have hope for him. There is hope for him. But he can't be coddled. He needs to step up. He can.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 751704, member: 18958"] This breaks my heart. My son is the same. I believe I need to be flexible. But that's me. I have come to that place because I need my son. And he needs me. M was my partner. He now lives separately. But thankfully, he believes the same as do I. He is living with my J now. We both keep hoping that little by little my son will choose to change.This is the case with my son as well. I bear the brunt of his feelings.What are the behaviors that are odd and difficult, where he is not welcome to be with the family at Christmas? Is it the verbal abuse? Or something else? You like me, seem to be caught between a rock and a hard place. While I understand why your husband would come to the end of his rope, I feel for you if he does not meet you half way. At the same time, can those of us with mentally ill adult children, have the same kinds of expectations as we would of another adult? I recognize your husband may be defending himself against pain that he cannot bear. Does this mean you must bear everything alone?Have you considered asking your husband to go to counseling with you? At the other end, pressuring you, is your son. Oh. I know he does not intend to. But he is. He is a brilliant man who insists upon doing everything his way. Mentally ill or not he needs to understand, too, that you are caught in the same trap with him. And what impacts him, impacts you. And that you cannot stand it. You love him so. You have volunteered to enter the trap with him and stay there. Rather than leave him alone. He needs to recognize the cost to you. Not that you want to leave him. But that he needs to help you. By helping himself. I recognize he is mentally ill and that his judgement is impaired. I understand how it is to push this boulder up the hill, again and again. But the thing is, your son cannot be absolved from responsibility for his own life. You cannot carry it all. Nobody could. Not taking medication is a choice he needs to take responsibility for. If he chooses to not accept treatment, that would help him control his behavior, there are consequences to that. Mothers can't protect adult children from the consequences of their lives. I have come to believe it is wrong of me to do so. If your son decides to take a substance, that fuels his psychopathology and makes it so that others don't want to be around him, because he behaves badly, so be it. He has that choice. But how is it that you have to suffer the consequences with him? And bear them alone, at that. He is capable of making better choices. He needs to step up. Or you need to step back. You can't live with him in this purgatory...if he is choosing to make it worse. I recognize you feel unable to do this. I can't either. But your son needs to understand. This conversation needs to happen. Because it is true. There are things you NEED from him. Your son is making all kinds of choices, decisions. We need to recognize that part of our learning is to allow our sons dignity and respect as people. As men. They are not now, only our little boys. We need to be able to accept that these men are deciding things in their lives, that define their lives. And he is deciding in ways that are AGAINST your interests. For all of us there are consequences of our decisions. Mothers cannot be expected to bear the consequences of impossible choices. You cannot keep holding yourself hostage with him. This is unhealthy for you. It's like you are giving up part of your humanity, your human dignity in order to keep yourself in the trap which is his illness. When he is making CHOICES that hurt himself and you. I think there comes a time when we need to save ourselves. To believe we are worthy of being saved. By our own choices. Except I recognize how impossibly hard this is to do. If he is abusing you and others, and that is due to substances he used, or the lack of medication and treatment compliance, how is it that his fantasy of Christmas needs to be indulged, at the expense of others? He has periods of rationality. He is a loving man. A good and decent and honest man. This needs to be communicated to him. That people will not want to be with him at Christmas because of how he acts. No matter how painful this is, he needs to confront it. The truth is necessary in order to change. He (Not you) needs to be responsible for the consequences of his choices. I don't mean to come down hard on him. And certainly don't mean to come down hard on you. You are caught in a vice. Nobody can live like that. Nobody should. Little by little you will get yourself out. Are you sure that you and your son are getting the support you both need from the rest of the family? Why is it you are left alone with this? Aren't the rest of the family his family too? Am I speaking too directly here? I don't know how else to say it. I recognize that they are all of them fed up. Or find it too painful and difficult. But you are left alone...in this.... Maybe I live in a fantasy but I feel that you need not, should not, be alone with this. Your son needs to help you. Your husband needs to help you. And the rest of the family too needs to help. Everybody needs to step up. You can't do this alone. Nobody could. All of this burden should not be on you only. Oh. I know there are others who will say, detach. But why? Shouldn't everybody be involved? In one of the Scandinavian countries, Finland I think. Schizophrenia was all but eradicated. How? When anybody comes to show any symptoms of psychosis, the whole community supports the family. Their philosophy is inclusion not exclusion. But if a family can't do it alone, how can a mother? PS Your son sounds like a wonderful person. A decent and good man. I have hope for him. There is hope for him. But he can't be coddled. He needs to step up. He can. [/QUOTE]
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