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easy child has "come out" and now I have some questions...
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 171521" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Tammy, you've had some really good advice. I'm also with all those who say that ANY sexual relationship should wait until you are mature enough emotionally to handle it. Sexual orientation is irrelevant here. </p><p></p><p>THAT SAID - if she is going to insist on having sex (and at 16, she will not be in the minority -sorry, folks, just being realistic) then the least you can do is try to keep her safe, sensible and not hurt too badly.</p><p></p><p>I was raised Christian, also we're still a fairly religious family. However, I do not judge people for their sexual orientation. Love is love. Homosexuality is NOT a lifestyle of choice. I USED to be very judgmental, before I worked things out for myself. All I had been doing was parroting the public point of view that I had been presented with. I had absolutely no idea. Once I DID find out more, learn more, talk to people - I changed my tune.</p><p></p><p>I've also studied science, physiology etc. and worked with doctors. So I've looked at the medical/genetic side of things. husband & I have talked openly about these topics and have pretty much the same view on things. A TV program I remember seeing decades ago was called "Brain Sex". There was also a book released at the same time - I nearly bought a copy. Wish I had, now.</p><p>(I just found a few links to the book - here's the Wikipedia one. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_Sex" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_Sex</a>)</p><p></p><p>The gist of what I have learned over the years - sexual orientation is NOT genetic, but is IS congenital. By this, I mean you are born with it, but it's not programmed directly into your genes. rather, it is programmed into the developing embryonic brain by a combination of developing hormones from the baby, and hormonal influence from the mother during pregnancy. (So in a way, it IS your mother's fault!) </p><p></p><p>It has been found in rats for sure (not certain about other species - I suspect it has been found in others too, though) that when the mother is stressed to a certain level at a certain point during pregnancy, her hormonal output changes. How much this changes, and for how long, can influence the developing brain of her baby to a varying extent. Among the things affected can be the cells in the brain that are responsible for a person being switched this way or that way. I believe degree of intensity of sexual programming is also affected via similar mechanisms.</p><p></p><p>This means that not only your sexual orientation, but also the degree of intensity of your sexual drive, is influenced and programmed in, in utero. </p><p></p><p>This explains how a person can be intensely sexual, whether interested in only males, or only females, or anything with a pulse. Or a person can be technically bisexual, but frankly couldn't give a hoot about sex with anyone much, they'd rather read a book.</p><p></p><p>Similarly, someone can be highly sexed and heterosexual only. You get the spectrum of sexual orientation as well as the spectrum of intensity of sexual desire.</p><p></p><p>Sexual desire CAN be influenced hormonally through your life - I think we've all heard examples (or experienced it). it can also be influenced socially.</p><p></p><p>Sexual orientation - nowhere near so much.</p><p></p><p>Examples of people who have managed to "give up" homosexuality, I find spurious in most cases. Sometimes the social pressure on the person is so strong that they choose celibacy and lies rather than continue living in a homosexual relationship and risk exposure. Or maybe, they just choose lies.</p><p>In some cases, it is always possible that a person was not so obligate a homosexual as they thought, so underneath there is the possibility of bisexuality; so they could apparently "switch" or "be cured" and enter into a monogamous heterosexual relationship and thereby win back approval from family.</p><p></p><p>But - whatever. And I mean that in the Aussie way, not the US, rolling eyes teen way. I mean - que sera sera.</p><p></p><p>How much of this applies to lesbians compared to homosexual men? I think pretty much the same. I view the vast majority of homosexuals (if not all) as "obligate" homosexuals. No choice in the matter. It's how they were made, prenatally.</p><p></p><p>Those who seem to have choice - possibly it's pre-programmed bisexuality. Or maybe someone very broad-minded but given to experimentation (although if so, surely there is an inborn bisexual latency there in such a case?).</p><p></p><p>I remember when at uni, our drama group performed a musical which had a strong tolerance message. A straight lead actor was playing a male homosexual, and wanted to "get into" his character. He chose to go home with one of the other, gay, performers to see what it was like. I do not know the outcome of the experiment, only that a great deal of alcohol was needed and STILL the experiment was uncertain. The lead actor remained heterosexual - he was good friends with everybody, but never chose to experiment like that again, while I knew him anyway.</p><p>My own view was that it was bad science - the hypothesis was flawed, the experimental method even more so (and before people disapprove too much, this was pre-HIV, back in the permissive 70s). </p><p></p><p>From the gay people I have known (and a few 'came out' during that production) - even the lesbians said they never felt anything other than lesbian. A few had slept with blokes, mostly to try to prove that they weren't lesbian. One friend of husband's & mine grew up in the church but always knew there was something "wrong". She thought she could overcome it with prayer, then realised she couldn't. She hid it for a long time but finally had to accept that it was how she was made and to be glad for it. By then she was the most together person we knew; happy to be who she was in every aspect of her life. She was also a singer/songwriter who wrote a song based on a church billboard she had seen. It was "Turn Right, Go Straight". In the song she says she "didn't wake up until the age of 23." She finishes the song with "But right was not the way that my thinking mind was leaning, and straight has never really been my style."</p><p></p><p>My kids grew up singing her songs. It also meant they grew up with a social conscience of which I am proud.</p><p></p><p>Tammy, you need to love your daughter. It sounds like you do. I hope things are going OK for you this weekend in Michigan. </p><p></p><p>As for husband - well, he's a bloke. They have weird hangups when it comes to their daughter being sexually active, and they have HUGE hangups about homosexuality. Why, I just don't know. Think about it - we women go for Pap smears and breast checks. OK, they're not pleasant, they feel invasive - but we do it because good health practice demands it. But have you heard how much fuss blokes make when they have to get ANYTHING put inside their rear end? I remember my father getting all hung up about a proctoscopic exam. And I've heard blokes I worked with, complaining about their wives making them go to the doctor and that weird medico apparently getting his jollies by giving them a rectal exam.</p><p></p><p>Blokes will run a mile rather than have a rectal exam, unless they're really, strongly, pushed into it. And yet we women are far more tolerant. I do think it connects in with homophobia at an almost latent level.</p><p></p><p>husband is less homophobic than most Aussie blokes. When he left home to share a student place, he moved in with a couple of blokes who turned out to be gay, and partners. husband's reaction was, "As long as nobody makes a pass at me, I don't mind what you do with each other." He & I were already engaged at that point. OK, husband did get one obscene phone call (a friend, checking out the possibility) but was cool with it. </p><p></p><p>And yet - we have raised one son at least, who has hangups. </p><p></p><p>That's why I am beginning to think that blokes are born homophobic, at least to a certain extent. Society can then impose a great deal more bias and prejudice on their developing brains, but even when you try to be open-minded, your sons can still be nervous around proctologists!</p><p></p><p>So give husband some time, easy child needs to also give him a bit of space with this just as she would need to if she were "coming out" as sexually active (and heterosexual).</p><p></p><p>At least one thing should make husband feel more comfortable - easy child isn't going to get pregnant any time soon. If/when she does, you can be fairly sure it will be a planned pregnancy!</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 171521, member: 1991"] Tammy, you've had some really good advice. I'm also with all those who say that ANY sexual relationship should wait until you are mature enough emotionally to handle it. Sexual orientation is irrelevant here. THAT SAID - if she is going to insist on having sex (and at 16, she will not be in the minority -sorry, folks, just being realistic) then the least you can do is try to keep her safe, sensible and not hurt too badly. I was raised Christian, also we're still a fairly religious family. However, I do not judge people for their sexual orientation. Love is love. Homosexuality is NOT a lifestyle of choice. I USED to be very judgmental, before I worked things out for myself. All I had been doing was parroting the public point of view that I had been presented with. I had absolutely no idea. Once I DID find out more, learn more, talk to people - I changed my tune. I've also studied science, physiology etc. and worked with doctors. So I've looked at the medical/genetic side of things. husband & I have talked openly about these topics and have pretty much the same view on things. A TV program I remember seeing decades ago was called "Brain Sex". There was also a book released at the same time - I nearly bought a copy. Wish I had, now. (I just found a few links to the book - here's the Wikipedia one. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_Sex[/url]) The gist of what I have learned over the years - sexual orientation is NOT genetic, but is IS congenital. By this, I mean you are born with it, but it's not programmed directly into your genes. rather, it is programmed into the developing embryonic brain by a combination of developing hormones from the baby, and hormonal influence from the mother during pregnancy. (So in a way, it IS your mother's fault!) It has been found in rats for sure (not certain about other species - I suspect it has been found in others too, though) that when the mother is stressed to a certain level at a certain point during pregnancy, her hormonal output changes. How much this changes, and for how long, can influence the developing brain of her baby to a varying extent. Among the things affected can be the cells in the brain that are responsible for a person being switched this way or that way. I believe degree of intensity of sexual programming is also affected via similar mechanisms. This means that not only your sexual orientation, but also the degree of intensity of your sexual drive, is influenced and programmed in, in utero. This explains how a person can be intensely sexual, whether interested in only males, or only females, or anything with a pulse. Or a person can be technically bisexual, but frankly couldn't give a hoot about sex with anyone much, they'd rather read a book. Similarly, someone can be highly sexed and heterosexual only. You get the spectrum of sexual orientation as well as the spectrum of intensity of sexual desire. Sexual desire CAN be influenced hormonally through your life - I think we've all heard examples (or experienced it). it can also be influenced socially. Sexual orientation - nowhere near so much. Examples of people who have managed to "give up" homosexuality, I find spurious in most cases. Sometimes the social pressure on the person is so strong that they choose celibacy and lies rather than continue living in a homosexual relationship and risk exposure. Or maybe, they just choose lies. In some cases, it is always possible that a person was not so obligate a homosexual as they thought, so underneath there is the possibility of bisexuality; so they could apparently "switch" or "be cured" and enter into a monogamous heterosexual relationship and thereby win back approval from family. But - whatever. And I mean that in the Aussie way, not the US, rolling eyes teen way. I mean - que sera sera. How much of this applies to lesbians compared to homosexual men? I think pretty much the same. I view the vast majority of homosexuals (if not all) as "obligate" homosexuals. No choice in the matter. It's how they were made, prenatally. Those who seem to have choice - possibly it's pre-programmed bisexuality. Or maybe someone very broad-minded but given to experimentation (although if so, surely there is an inborn bisexual latency there in such a case?). I remember when at uni, our drama group performed a musical which had a strong tolerance message. A straight lead actor was playing a male homosexual, and wanted to "get into" his character. He chose to go home with one of the other, gay, performers to see what it was like. I do not know the outcome of the experiment, only that a great deal of alcohol was needed and STILL the experiment was uncertain. The lead actor remained heterosexual - he was good friends with everybody, but never chose to experiment like that again, while I knew him anyway. My own view was that it was bad science - the hypothesis was flawed, the experimental method even more so (and before people disapprove too much, this was pre-HIV, back in the permissive 70s). From the gay people I have known (and a few 'came out' during that production) - even the lesbians said they never felt anything other than lesbian. A few had slept with blokes, mostly to try to prove that they weren't lesbian. One friend of husband's & mine grew up in the church but always knew there was something "wrong". She thought she could overcome it with prayer, then realised she couldn't. She hid it for a long time but finally had to accept that it was how she was made and to be glad for it. By then she was the most together person we knew; happy to be who she was in every aspect of her life. She was also a singer/songwriter who wrote a song based on a church billboard she had seen. It was "Turn Right, Go Straight". In the song she says she "didn't wake up until the age of 23." She finishes the song with "But right was not the way that my thinking mind was leaning, and straight has never really been my style." My kids grew up singing her songs. It also meant they grew up with a social conscience of which I am proud. Tammy, you need to love your daughter. It sounds like you do. I hope things are going OK for you this weekend in Michigan. As for husband - well, he's a bloke. They have weird hangups when it comes to their daughter being sexually active, and they have HUGE hangups about homosexuality. Why, I just don't know. Think about it - we women go for Pap smears and breast checks. OK, they're not pleasant, they feel invasive - but we do it because good health practice demands it. But have you heard how much fuss blokes make when they have to get ANYTHING put inside their rear end? I remember my father getting all hung up about a proctoscopic exam. And I've heard blokes I worked with, complaining about their wives making them go to the doctor and that weird medico apparently getting his jollies by giving them a rectal exam. Blokes will run a mile rather than have a rectal exam, unless they're really, strongly, pushed into it. And yet we women are far more tolerant. I do think it connects in with homophobia at an almost latent level. husband is less homophobic than most Aussie blokes. When he left home to share a student place, he moved in with a couple of blokes who turned out to be gay, and partners. husband's reaction was, "As long as nobody makes a pass at me, I don't mind what you do with each other." He & I were already engaged at that point. OK, husband did get one obscene phone call (a friend, checking out the possibility) but was cool with it. And yet - we have raised one son at least, who has hangups. That's why I am beginning to think that blokes are born homophobic, at least to a certain extent. Society can then impose a great deal more bias and prejudice on their developing brains, but even when you try to be open-minded, your sons can still be nervous around proctologists! So give husband some time, easy child needs to also give him a bit of space with this just as she would need to if she were "coming out" as sexually active (and heterosexual). At least one thing should make husband feel more comfortable - easy child isn't going to get pregnant any time soon. If/when she does, you can be fairly sure it will be a planned pregnancy! Marg [/QUOTE]
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