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Had a Revelation Last Night (long, thanks for reading if you can)
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<blockquote data-quote="Hound dog" data-source="post: 409012" data-attributes="member: 84"><p>Susie</p><p></p><p>I commend you for trying to get to the bottom of this junk. But you need to seriously<strong> let it go</strong>. I know that is not easy to do, especially when you have contact with these family members on a reg basis. </p><p></p><p>Bro may have made it through the 12 step program, but he didn't work the program at all. And quite honestly I wouldn't be shocked if he was secretly drinking and had been for many years. He just learned to keep it fairly controlled and hidden.</p><p></p><p>You don't ask forgiveness of someone while laying blame at their feet. He wasn't truthfully seeking forgiveness because he believes he has done nothing to be forgiven for. I don't know all the background involved but "working" the program was most likely just an act put on for your parents ect. He's a manipulative *ss who has made making you the "bad" guy in the family his pet project so that it deflects from anything he does, which keeps him the "good" child in parents eyes. I have a sneaky suspicion your parents have figured him out by now and are either enablers to his behavior or are too afraid of him to buck him. I could be wrong though, and it is possible he still has them hoodwinked but I'm betting they go along with what he says to keep peace with him. They have to have their own memories as well. Bro has more severe issues going on than just alcoholism.</p><p></p><p>I say this about your parents because husband and his bro have had this "thing" between them since childhood. Put those 2 in a room together and you can feel the tension rise immediately.....you can feel the hostility, coldness. According to sister in law it's been that way she she first entered the family picture when dating husband's bro in high school, then later on in college.......and the 50 some years she's been married to his bro. She's tried all that time to get to the bottom of what the heck that "thing" is to utter failure. Many many many years our inlaws pretended not to notice this about their sons, even though it was blatantly obvious to everyone even non family.</p><p></p><p>Turns out several years back sister in law was determined to put an end to it as it was tearing mother in law apart. (there would be arguments on bro in laws part over holidays because he'd refused to show up of husband was there) So she invited us to Thanksgiving, told bro in law he'd better be the most polite host and talkative and welcoming or she'd make his life a living hades on earth. Well......he did. Except Travis went on sensory overload by the end of the day........husband didn't come get me made the mistake of trying to handle it on his own and blew it into an enormous standoff with a 9 yr old boy in the middle of the street.......... husband's bro's family had very little knowledge about Travis' issues at that point and were staring with wide eyes and mouths hanging open......as I calmly came up, told husband to get lost, and talked the boy back down and into reason. Bro in law told mother in law we were never welcome in his house again. mother in law was livid. She told him that his children were grown, while ours were still little........and ours would come before theirs due to this. His children got to have their grandma when they were little and so would ours. (yeah so of course that made it worse lol) And that is when I discovered while mother in law told me about this that she had known about it all along yet also had no clue as to what the cause of it was. She had kept quiet and pretended not to notice and to play it down in an attempt to keep peace in the family. From that moment on, however, she didn't. </p><p></p><p>Odd but since mother in law's death my girls and I suddenly have a very close relationship with bro in laws daughter.........my niece. So much so that Nichole has invited them all to her wedding. Bro in law will at least be polite now........but that rift is still clearly in place. Sister in law told her husband he is pathetic lol. That husband is the only family he has left and he is stupid enough to continue to push him away over something that happened obviously many many decades ago.</p><p></p><p>I dunno about sister in law, but my own theory is that there was abuse going on between bro in law and husband. As adults I believe bro in law has manipulated the family (and I know for sure he did with his kids/grandkids) into believing husband did some horrible wrong to him, although not once has he so much as hinted as to what it would be. husband still claims to not have a frigging clue as to what his bro issue is. I'm not so sure I buy that either. lol But I believe bro in law did this so if husband ever decided to speak up about past abuse......he would be perceived to be the liar while bro in laws golden son image would prevent anyone from believing husband. </p><p></p><p>Pretty typical behavior of an abuser. </p><p></p><p>Susie you need to make peace with the past once and for all. Let it go. Set firm boundaries for behavior you will and will not tolerate in the present, and this includes from any person be they related or not, and stick to it regardless of how they react. Because you don't <strong>care</strong> how they react. Their reaction to it is their problem, not yours. And sadly if your parents can't respect how you feel, then it is their loss. You need to truly admit that they enable his behavior for whatever reason and draw firm boundaries due to it.</p><p></p><p>My mom for all her lack of empathy, coldness, manipulation ect.............<strong>.still</strong> had the foresight to ask me before my eldest bro brought her for a visit because she knew he was one of my abusers. Why? Because MY boundaries have been firmly set in place for many many years and I won't back down regardless of how anyone reacts to it. I had no choice but to live that nightmare as a child, I flat out refuse to do so as an adult or to subject my kids to it. </p><p></p><p>The only one who is going to stand up for you, is you. People only treat you how you allow them to treat you. </p><p></p><p>My families views on me varies from what I hear. lol I'm either evil personified or off my nut.........or the courageous one who managed to stop the cycle of abuse. Depends on who you talk to what answer you'll get, and the latter one comes from<strong> other</strong> than immediate family. But you know what? I really honestly do not care at all what they think. I have been free from abuse since I left home all that garbage is in the past and remains there, and I managed to give my kids a fairly boring "normal" life due to it. </p><p></p><p>I know your parents are older and you want to be close to them. But I think you're going to have to realize that being close to them has a price to pay, and then decide if that price is worth it for you and your kids. </p><p></p><p>Boundaries had to be in place many many many years of me refusing to back down even a teeny bit before I began to develop a new relationship with my mom. Now I feel comfortable in asking her to move into town where she will be close to family who actually does care about her well being. But if I'd never been able to develop that new relationship? No way in hades.</p><p></p><p>(((hugs)))</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hound dog, post: 409012, member: 84"] Susie I commend you for trying to get to the bottom of this junk. But you need to seriously[B] let it go[/B]. I know that is not easy to do, especially when you have contact with these family members on a reg basis. Bro may have made it through the 12 step program, but he didn't work the program at all. And quite honestly I wouldn't be shocked if he was secretly drinking and had been for many years. He just learned to keep it fairly controlled and hidden. You don't ask forgiveness of someone while laying blame at their feet. He wasn't truthfully seeking forgiveness because he believes he has done nothing to be forgiven for. I don't know all the background involved but "working" the program was most likely just an act put on for your parents ect. He's a manipulative *ss who has made making you the "bad" guy in the family his pet project so that it deflects from anything he does, which keeps him the "good" child in parents eyes. I have a sneaky suspicion your parents have figured him out by now and are either enablers to his behavior or are too afraid of him to buck him. I could be wrong though, and it is possible he still has them hoodwinked but I'm betting they go along with what he says to keep peace with him. They have to have their own memories as well. Bro has more severe issues going on than just alcoholism. I say this about your parents because husband and his bro have had this "thing" between them since childhood. Put those 2 in a room together and you can feel the tension rise immediately.....you can feel the hostility, coldness. According to sister in law it's been that way she she first entered the family picture when dating husband's bro in high school, then later on in college.......and the 50 some years she's been married to his bro. She's tried all that time to get to the bottom of what the heck that "thing" is to utter failure. Many many many years our inlaws pretended not to notice this about their sons, even though it was blatantly obvious to everyone even non family. Turns out several years back sister in law was determined to put an end to it as it was tearing mother in law apart. (there would be arguments on bro in laws part over holidays because he'd refused to show up of husband was there) So she invited us to Thanksgiving, told bro in law he'd better be the most polite host and talkative and welcoming or she'd make his life a living hades on earth. Well......he did. Except Travis went on sensory overload by the end of the day........husband didn't come get me made the mistake of trying to handle it on his own and blew it into an enormous standoff with a 9 yr old boy in the middle of the street.......... husband's bro's family had very little knowledge about Travis' issues at that point and were staring with wide eyes and mouths hanging open......as I calmly came up, told husband to get lost, and talked the boy back down and into reason. Bro in law told mother in law we were never welcome in his house again. mother in law was livid. She told him that his children were grown, while ours were still little........and ours would come before theirs due to this. His children got to have their grandma when they were little and so would ours. (yeah so of course that made it worse lol) And that is when I discovered while mother in law told me about this that she had known about it all along yet also had no clue as to what the cause of it was. She had kept quiet and pretended not to notice and to play it down in an attempt to keep peace in the family. From that moment on, however, she didn't. Odd but since mother in law's death my girls and I suddenly have a very close relationship with bro in laws daughter.........my niece. So much so that Nichole has invited them all to her wedding. Bro in law will at least be polite now........but that rift is still clearly in place. Sister in law told her husband he is pathetic lol. That husband is the only family he has left and he is stupid enough to continue to push him away over something that happened obviously many many decades ago. I dunno about sister in law, but my own theory is that there was abuse going on between bro in law and husband. As adults I believe bro in law has manipulated the family (and I know for sure he did with his kids/grandkids) into believing husband did some horrible wrong to him, although not once has he so much as hinted as to what it would be. husband still claims to not have a frigging clue as to what his bro issue is. I'm not so sure I buy that either. lol But I believe bro in law did this so if husband ever decided to speak up about past abuse......he would be perceived to be the liar while bro in laws golden son image would prevent anyone from believing husband. Pretty typical behavior of an abuser. Susie you need to make peace with the past once and for all. Let it go. Set firm boundaries for behavior you will and will not tolerate in the present, and this includes from any person be they related or not, and stick to it regardless of how they react. Because you don't [B]care[/B] how they react. Their reaction to it is their problem, not yours. And sadly if your parents can't respect how you feel, then it is their loss. You need to truly admit that they enable his behavior for whatever reason and draw firm boundaries due to it. My mom for all her lack of empathy, coldness, manipulation ect.............[B].still[/B] had the foresight to ask me before my eldest bro brought her for a visit because she knew he was one of my abusers. Why? Because MY boundaries have been firmly set in place for many many years and I won't back down regardless of how anyone reacts to it. I had no choice but to live that nightmare as a child, I flat out refuse to do so as an adult or to subject my kids to it. The only one who is going to stand up for you, is you. People only treat you how you allow them to treat you. My families views on me varies from what I hear. lol I'm either evil personified or off my nut.........or the courageous one who managed to stop the cycle of abuse. Depends on who you talk to what answer you'll get, and the latter one comes from[B] other[/B] than immediate family. But you know what? I really honestly do not care at all what they think. I have been free from abuse since I left home all that garbage is in the past and remains there, and I managed to give my kids a fairly boring "normal" life due to it. I know your parents are older and you want to be close to them. But I think you're going to have to realize that being close to them has a price to pay, and then decide if that price is worth it for you and your kids. Boundaries had to be in place many many many years of me refusing to back down even a teeny bit before I began to develop a new relationship with my mom. Now I feel comfortable in asking her to move into town where she will be close to family who actually does care about her well being. But if I'd never been able to develop that new relationship? No way in hades. (((hugs))) [/QUOTE]
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