Haven't been here in a while, an update
- Thread starter scaredofhim
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scaredofhim
Member
Midwest Mom....SS very, VERY occasionally will be remorseful...but usually he isn't remorseful at all. In fact most of the time he acts very grandiose when he does all this stuff and gets away with it. I have read a lot about antisocial personality disorder, and I swear a lot of it really fits him. But some of the bipolar description fits him as well, and even borderline personality fits him in some respects. I would imagine he has a combination of a lot of mental illnesses.
I am trying to hang in there. It is likely only a matter of time before juvie happens, and like you said, then I can feel safe.
I am trying to hang in there. It is likely only a matter of time before juvie happens, and like you said, then I can feel safe.
MyFriendKita
Active Member
I'm sure MidwestMom means well, but I get really angry when a parent on here tells another parent to wash their hands of a child because there is no hope for that child. My son is remorseful (eventually), when he does something wrong, but you would never know it. He does not show emotions easily, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. I was in the position once of having to believe he was either a spoiled brat who should be punished to the fullest extent of the law until he changed his behavior, or giving him the benefit of the doubt and believing there was a valid reason for his behavior (other than being a spoiled brat). I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt--what did I have to lose? If I was wrong, he would end up in juvie on his own; if I was right, there was a chance he would get the treatment he needed and become a productive member of society. We were told by a psychologist that until he was correctly medicated, no amount of therapy (or anything else) would help him. He turned out to be 100% correct. This was after a therapist told us to let him fall, sending him to juvie if that's what it took. She told us he would have to change on his own before anything would change for him. She was wrong; he could not have changed on his own if he had wanted to. If your son is indeed bipolar (and although MidwestMom is an expert in the way her bipolar manifests itself in her life, she is by no means an expert on how it manifests in every other bipolar person in the world, especially one she's never met), the first thing I would work on is his medications. If he were my son, I would not allow him to be put on any antidepressant or stimulant, especially if he were unstable and raging. I would insist he be put on a mood stabilizer, if I had to keep looking until I found a doctor who would listen. My son is now almost 26; he is not the person he was at 12 or 15 or even 18. Your stepson is 12. He's not done cooking yet, and I don't think he's beyond hope, if he gets the proper help.
scaredofhim
Member
rm1976...I have never gotten the impression that Midwest Mom or anyone else here was trying to say that we should wash our hands of my SS. And a lot of what you said makes sense, however, my husband is not the custodial parent of SS and all final decisions about his medical care are made by his bio mom. As for his diagnosis and medications, his psychiatrist is a very good dr. and well regarded in the community. We trust in the diagnosis that has been made so far although we do believe he may have other co-morbid mental conditions, which time and therapy will reveal. Now as for his medications, I agree with you about the antidepressant and the stimulant, feeling they may do more harm that good. But SS has ADD and is doing terrible is school which is why the dr. added a low dose of Concerta. husband and I have our concerns about that but the dr. feels it is worth trying a small dose. Bio mom is a pharmacist, and she pushes her agenda to the dr. on what she thinks is best as far as SS's medications. And for some reason she doesn't want him on a mood stabilizer yet. She is in total denial about the diagnosis. husband can disagree with her and does disagree with her a lot of time time but like I said, she is the custodial parent, final say is hers alone. It is possible that what you said is true, that SS is not beyond hope WITH the proper help, but I am not sure he will ever get the proper help because although he has a good dr, bio mom pushes what she want as far as his treatment. She doesn't want him to go to juvie but she has done nothing the dr. has told her to do to keep him out of juvie. She thinks medications will fix him and medications alone are not going to do it. This child doesn't suffer any consequences for his behavior, and until he does suffer some consequences, nothing is going to change and his violent behavior is going to escalate until something bad happens. And then unfortunately the juvenile justice system will become involved. I am glad that things worked out well for your son, that is wonderful and I am happy to hear that. But my SS has threaten to kill his bio mom repeatedly, he has threatened to kill himself, he has made threats to me. This is a matter of keeping him and everyone else safe, not of giving up on him. We can't have him threatening to go get a knife every time he doesn't get his way, or to burn the house down while we are sleeping....we are not going to live in fear.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Rm, I have said and stand by that he is dangerous and should be parented away from home before he hurts somebody badly. That does not mean you wash your hands of the child. Hopefully they end up in a place that can give them 24/7 hour help.
It is not our place to recommend what medications to give a child either.
This is the stepmother, a loving and caring person, and her heart is in the right place. I totally trust her to read all of this and take what she feels is useful and disregard what she feels is not. If somebody has never lived with a physically violent child who never feels remorse, then it is hard for the parent to relate. If you have something to say to me, perhaps you'd like to PM me and we can discuss it.
Thanks.
You are a brave person and your SS's voice of sanity. If he is at home, he could get into far more trouble than if he is being watched and evaluated and treated around the clock. It would be far worse for him if he harmed another than if he had a chance in a residential home to learn coping skills that hopefully will stick. Would they? In my opinion, probably not, but, as I always say, this is just my opinion. And this is not walking away from a minor child.
It is not our place to recommend what medications to give a child either.
This is the stepmother, a loving and caring person, and her heart is in the right place. I totally trust her to read all of this and take what she feels is useful and disregard what she feels is not. If somebody has never lived with a physically violent child who never feels remorse, then it is hard for the parent to relate. If you have something to say to me, perhaps you'd like to PM me and we can discuss it.
Thanks.
You are a brave person and your SS's voice of sanity. If he is at home, he could get into far more trouble than if he is being watched and evaluated and treated around the clock. It would be far worse for him if he harmed another than if he had a chance in a residential home to learn coping skills that hopefully will stick. Would they? In my opinion, probably not, but, as I always say, this is just my opinion. And this is not walking away from a minor child.
MyFriendKita
Active Member
MidwestMom—there is no reason to communicate via PM; anything we have to say to each other can be said on this forum.
I stand by what I said as well. It is well-documented that those classes of medication can cause or exacerbate the very problems this child is dealing with. in my opinion, it would be irresponsible not to mention it. Also, in my opinion, it is irresponsible to say nothing will help a child you have never met. I do believe you mean well, but I think you are seeing this child and others like him through the same lens you viewed your foster son. You may see similarities, but the fact remains, you do not know this child and cannot say for certain nothing will help him.
You seem to think I haven’t dealt with a violent child; anyone who has ever dealt with a bipolar child knows a thing or two about living with violence. As a matter of fact, I gained a new hole in my living room this past weekend after having a relatively damage-free few years (yes, my son was helped by medication, but did not like the way it made him feel, so he quit taking it. So no happily-ever-after story here). So yes, I do know about living with violence. I also know that any problems this child has will not be helped by being incarcerated. I know that from experience as well. And even if he does end up being locked up, chances are he will not get the help he needs while in there, he will get out at some point, and his problems will be even worse. And then, he will be more dangerous.
MidwestMom, I know you like to have the last word, so be my guest.
I stand by what I said as well. It is well-documented that those classes of medication can cause or exacerbate the very problems this child is dealing with. in my opinion, it would be irresponsible not to mention it. Also, in my opinion, it is irresponsible to say nothing will help a child you have never met. I do believe you mean well, but I think you are seeing this child and others like him through the same lens you viewed your foster son. You may see similarities, but the fact remains, you do not know this child and cannot say for certain nothing will help him.
You seem to think I haven’t dealt with a violent child; anyone who has ever dealt with a bipolar child knows a thing or two about living with violence. As a matter of fact, I gained a new hole in my living room this past weekend after having a relatively damage-free few years (yes, my son was helped by medication, but did not like the way it made him feel, so he quit taking it. So no happily-ever-after story here). So yes, I do know about living with violence. I also know that any problems this child has will not be helped by being incarcerated. I know that from experience as well. And even if he does end up being locked up, chances are he will not get the help he needs while in there, he will get out at some point, and his problems will be even worse. And then, he will be more dangerous.
MidwestMom, I know you like to have the last word, so be my guest.
scaredofhim
Member
I don't feel that treatment in a residential treatment facility can be viewed the same way as being locked up in juvie, I don't consider that incarceration. We have stressed to bio mom that we think he needs residential treatment. In a residential treatment facility SS can get the help he needs and SS and everyone else would be safe. I know that being locked up in juvie won't help him and will likely make him worse. I am all for him getting help. But our hands are tied by his bio mom as far as that goes. She doesn't seem to realize that by not doing what the dr. recommends, he is going to wind up in juvie, the very place she doesn't want him to be. rm1976 I agree with you about the medications, I already knew that those classes of medications exacerbate things in kids with bipolar and husband and I have stated our opinion about that to bio mom, but, she is a pharmacist and thinks she knows better than us or the dr. apparently.
MyFriendKita
Active Member
scaredofhim, I apologize, I didn't mean to sound as if I equated Residential Treatment Facility (RTF)'s with juvenile detention. What I meant was, so often kids whose behavior lands them in trouble with the law are sent to juvenile detention, not an Residential Treatment Facility (RTF), where they really would get help. It happened to us, so I always advise people to avoid the juvenile justice system if possible. I realize sometimes it's not possible, but as a parent, I would do everything in my power to avoid it. It sounds like you are doing everything you can do on your end unless and until biomom gets on board. I'm glad your stepson has you in his corner-it sounds like you have a good handle on the situation.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
rm, assuming the child has the right diagnosis.
Many people with bipolar, and it is iffy whether or not that can even be accurately diagnosed at a young age, take antidepressants. It is very much up to the individual and there is absolutely no documentation that every child reacts one way or another to any medication. You are assuming everyone who has bipolar labeled is a correct one and that, even if it is correct, that nobody with bipolar can tolerate antidepressants. I've been in a self-help group for years with many people who have bipolar, some with mood stabilizers and some without. There are varying degrees of what works. It is not responsible to trump what a doctor advises a patient to do in such a definite way. It is ok for the parent to question the doctor, but not to actually tell him what he is going to give her child. None of us have medical degrees.
Having said that, it is irrelevant in the case of this child. And, yes, stepmother knows what she is doing. It's the other who don't. And the child will pay the price, although it may already be too late. At least, I think it may be too late. He is really out of control and is not responding to any sort of parenting, which is where a treatment center would be excellent to at least attempt.
Many people with bipolar, and it is iffy whether or not that can even be accurately diagnosed at a young age, take antidepressants. It is very much up to the individual and there is absolutely no documentation that every child reacts one way or another to any medication. You are assuming everyone who has bipolar labeled is a correct one and that, even if it is correct, that nobody with bipolar can tolerate antidepressants. I've been in a self-help group for years with many people who have bipolar, some with mood stabilizers and some without. There are varying degrees of what works. It is not responsible to trump what a doctor advises a patient to do in such a definite way. It is ok for the parent to question the doctor, but not to actually tell him what he is going to give her child. None of us have medical degrees.
Having said that, it is irrelevant in the case of this child. And, yes, stepmother knows what she is doing. It's the other who don't. And the child will pay the price, although it may already be too late. At least, I think it may be too late. He is really out of control and is not responding to any sort of parenting, which is where a treatment center would be excellent to at least attempt.
Wow scared of him, I'm so sorry things have gotten this out of control... was reading this and sounds so much like Angel at 12yo. All of it... the rages, no remorse, toilet & hygene etc.
Public school was afraid of her and done dealing with her, psychiatrist kept prescribing medications that were making it worse (and wouldn't listen to me) a whole string of 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc opinions; ended up back with first psychiatrist who at one point wanted me to declare her incorrigible and sign off on my parental rights (this wouldn't have helped Angel just would have got her off that psychiatrist's caseload), did Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for a month, behaviorist, in home intensive services (with-8 therapist & 4 case managers) she pretty much exhausted every service the children's clinic had to offer. Angel was diagnosis'd at 6yo still has issues at 19yo but 12yo I have to admit was the lowest most defeated I felt on this journey.
I would be weary of any doctor who a parent could manipulate into prescribing what they want, as a practice I run from anyone who claims to be a know it all in area's of bipolar & autism (never met any with those conditions who responded exactly the same to any treatment)
Please review the serenity prayer and repeat when needed; with the bio mom calling all the shots there isn't much you can do to change this. What you do have some control over is safety issues in your home for that reason I say do what you have to do to feel safe... door & window alarms/ locks and lock up just about everything (sharps, medications, fire starters, ropes, glass etc.)
I know he's young but to mentally help prepare you on emeritus forum read recovering enablers thread on detachment (toward top of the forum) it's not about giving up on the kid it's about keeping your own sanity when faced with their drama. Good luck we are always here for you.
Nancy
Public school was afraid of her and done dealing with her, psychiatrist kept prescribing medications that were making it worse (and wouldn't listen to me) a whole string of 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc opinions; ended up back with first psychiatrist who at one point wanted me to declare her incorrigible and sign off on my parental rights (this wouldn't have helped Angel just would have got her off that psychiatrist's caseload), did Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for a month, behaviorist, in home intensive services (with-8 therapist & 4 case managers) she pretty much exhausted every service the children's clinic had to offer. Angel was diagnosis'd at 6yo still has issues at 19yo but 12yo I have to admit was the lowest most defeated I felt on this journey.
I would be weary of any doctor who a parent could manipulate into prescribing what they want, as a practice I run from anyone who claims to be a know it all in area's of bipolar & autism (never met any with those conditions who responded exactly the same to any treatment)
Please review the serenity prayer and repeat when needed; with the bio mom calling all the shots there isn't much you can do to change this. What you do have some control over is safety issues in your home for that reason I say do what you have to do to feel safe... door & window alarms/ locks and lock up just about everything (sharps, medications, fire starters, ropes, glass etc.)
I know he's young but to mentally help prepare you on emeritus forum read recovering enablers thread on detachment (toward top of the forum) it's not about giving up on the kid it's about keeping your own sanity when faced with their drama. Good luck we are always here for you.
Nancy
scaredofhim
Member
We had SS this weekend and he seemed to be in a depressed cycle with his bipolar. There were no meltdowns or defiance, but he slept a lot. When he wasn't on the laptop playing video games that is. He talked husband into getting him some "battle" funds for this violent game that he plays, and since he was "behaving" husband did that for him. Which I feel is a mistake, because it just feeds SS's video game addiction, and because SS extorts money from bio mom all the time for video games by threatening her, and I don't want him to think that he is going to start doing that with husband and I. husband and I had discussed it awhile back, and we agreed that we would not purchase him funds for the game, or buy him anything whatsoever as a gift that relates to video games in any way. So I was a little upset that husband did that for him this weekend after we had agreed not to but I didn't say anything. He said that he wouldn't do it again, just wanted to do it this one time as a reward to SS for being "good." We did have an issue with hygiene this weekend as far as him messing up the toilet...urine and feces smeared all over it, and SS swears he doesn't know how it gets all over and under the toilet seat. He also didn't clean it up, I had to do it. On Thursday evening, we did have a very interesting phone call from the father and stepmother of SS's half brother. Bio mom has custody of both boys, and the half brother's dad doesn't like some things that are going on in regards to how bio mom is taking care of his son's mental issues (half brother has bipolar, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), ODD, and Tourettes) so we did compare notes. He told us that SS's in home therapist called them and wanted to know if they were on board with the in home therapy, even though the therapy isn't for SS's half brother at all. They found that strange. They the therapist told them that bio mom said that husband gives her no help with SS and that he is really not in his life much at all. Well of course that really angered husband and I very much because it isn't true. The other set of parents think that bio mom is trying to get both boys labeled as disabled to try and get Social Security Disability for them. What is strange is that the therapist didn't call husband at all and he is the father! I guess bio mom has her convinced that husband is not in his life and doesn't help. And we have been to every single psychiatrist's appointment, and have SS every other weekend and are very involved in his life. Anyway, I am rambling, sorry. I have been sick with a bad cold all weekend and am feeling very frustrated this morning. husband just thinks it so wonderful that SS didn't give us any trouble this weekend and was bragging how good (besides messing up the toilet) he was, which worries me because husband takes it as a sign that maybe he really isn't mentally ill, and that just isn't the case. He is just in the depressive cycle of his bipolar and sullen and quiet right now. He forgets that just last Saturday SS had a rage and didn't want to go to the psychiatrist appointment. and we just found out from SS this weekend that bio mom charged him 200.00 worth of video game related stuff on her credit card. We asked him when she did that and he told us right after they got back from the dr. appointment last Saturday. And husband said to him, "so your mom promised you that so you would go to the dr. appointment." and he replied, "yep!" And I said to him, " and you don't see anything wrong with doing that?' and he said no he didn't. She spent another 200.00 on him for the same thing recently after a meltdown. And the child has taken her credit card out of her purse and charged things himself! So like I keep saying, SS is a volcano that is going to erupt at our house eventually, just a matter of time....Ugh 
I'm so sorry this is going on, can't help but wonder if bio mom is in treatment? in my opinion she sounds like unstable bipolar (most single moms can't afford that kind of money for rewards/bribes) and if that is the case it might be best for her to apply for SSI disability for all 3 of them.
She won't have pressure of work (but still can if wants) and the whole family will have access to treatment. Do advise her if she does this when X DHs pay child support they will deduct from SSI check 60-90 days after support was received (it's not $ for $ but still can mess up a budget if don't plan for it).
I understand how frustrating this is for you and husband; finding that "sweet" spot between "it takes a village to raise a child" and "too many cooks spoil the soup" is going to be very difficult. I even feel sorry for bio mom, even though doing much wrong I've lived with 2 bipolar kids feeding off each other and tag teaming me (I wouldn't wish that on anyone).
Thanks for the update, will continue to pray for all of you.
Nancy
She won't have pressure of work (but still can if wants) and the whole family will have access to treatment. Do advise her if she does this when X DHs pay child support they will deduct from SSI check 60-90 days after support was received (it's not $ for $ but still can mess up a budget if don't plan for it).
I understand how frustrating this is for you and husband; finding that "sweet" spot between "it takes a village to raise a child" and "too many cooks spoil the soup" is going to be very difficult. I even feel sorry for bio mom, even though doing much wrong I've lived with 2 bipolar kids feeding off each other and tag teaming me (I wouldn't wish that on anyone).
Thanks for the update, will continue to pray for all of you.
Nancy
scaredofhim
Member
helpangel...bio mom is not in treatment, she doesn't feel she has a problem but her mother and father were both mentally ill so I would not be surprised if she is bipolar as well. As for SS and his half brother feeding off each other and tag teaming her, yes that is exactly what is going on. Bio mom has a great job and makes very good money so she spoils both boys to the max with material things and yes bribes them with hundreds of dollars to get them to comply with her. That certainly is not helping matters. She will never give up her job though...her whole identity is wrapped up in her job.....despite her excellent salary she is starting to have financial problems and it's solely due to the money she spends on those boys trying to buy their good behavior and that simply will not work with bipolar children.
Yes it is very frustrating for husband and I....and so stressful. Your prayers are greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Yes it is very frustrating for husband and I....and so stressful. Your prayers are greatly appreciated. Thanks.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Sweetie, you are caught between a rock and a hard place. There is nothing you can do to change bio. mom or hub. Maybe you and hub should try marriage counseling to get on the same page. If he can't see the dysfunction of his son's behavior, he is in severe denial and that won't help anyone!!!!
Gentle hugs.
Gentle hugs.
Praying is about all you can do in this situation and for husband and the other X be prepared to step in and take the kids if she snaps and ends up inpatient. If (when) it happens not having to worry about her kids will help with her treatment & recovery.
Is there any chance the in home therapist would want to include you and husband as part of his treatment team? Whether they do a session at your house or have you go to X's? for it seems to me everyone involved should be following the same plan. One thing that I've found critical to bipolar stability is it needs consistency; consistency is going to be hard with 3 parents (or sets of parents) involved. Uniform rules, bedtimes & food expectations would be a place to start.
What is so great is that these kids have many people all looking out for them, my kids when they needed the village all they had was a very broken mom trying to do it all by herself... not really but it felt like it many times had my parents, community mental health services & my lifeline (this website) I don't think we would have survived without this soft place to land.
Nancy
Is there any chance the in home therapist would want to include you and husband as part of his treatment team? Whether they do a session at your house or have you go to X's? for it seems to me everyone involved should be following the same plan. One thing that I've found critical to bipolar stability is it needs consistency; consistency is going to be hard with 3 parents (or sets of parents) involved. Uniform rules, bedtimes & food expectations would be a place to start.
What is so great is that these kids have many people all looking out for them, my kids when they needed the village all they had was a very broken mom trying to do it all by herself... not really but it felt like it many times had my parents, community mental health services & my lifeline (this website) I don't think we would have survived without this soft place to land.
Nancy
