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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 323738" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Sorry. By typical teen I mean "typical teen" but not meaning to downrate any problems you may have - in your son's case he's been through a vast amount of nasty stuff, enough to send any normal kid off the rails. There may be an underlying condition adding to things, but given what he's been through, that alone would account for a lot of what you describe.</p><p></p><p>PDHPE - it's a school subject here, it stands for "Personal Development, Health and Physical Education". It's a lot more than just sport, they work on a lot of social stuff as well. That teacher this year has done a lot for difficult child 3 with his social interactions and social skills in a broad scale. he had to modify a lot of his lessons for difficult child 3 but yesterday he told difficult child 3 that he (the teacher) has a profoundly handicapped brother. It was in discussion over another child we know who has had to be removed form the home even though his mother is doing the best anyone could. But her son simply needs constant supervision 24/7, and nobody can do that.</p><p></p><p>The aggression you describe often happens in Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), but generally not as a primary factor (although it looks it). It is more likely the child's aggressive response to a world that just won't stay still and behave.</p><p></p><p>Blaming is a big problem but if he's Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), he will have picked up this behaviour from his environment. These kids learn, FAST, by modelling their behaviour on those around them they perceive as role models. So if you or his teachers use blame, he will too. And even if you don't always use it, he has seen it used effectively and has got into the habit of it. You need to get him into a new habit (which takes a lot of effort) in order to help him overcome this. But we did it. It can be done.</p><p></p><p>as for venting - feel free. It's what we're here for. You need to vent somewhere and it's better for it to be here, than your kids. Or your friends. </p><p></p><p>Back to blaming - observe yourself and what you say (to both boys, to your husband, to everyone). We can get into our own habits. I know I did. Part of it also is a reaction to our kids, we are trying to get the point home to them and in doing so, we end up teaching them to blame.</p><p></p><p>Example - "Why did you grab that cup without checking to see what was inside it? Now there's cola spilled all over the floor!"</p><p>The instinctive reaction to this, especially in the highly-flammable Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids, is to say, "No I didn't! Besides, I didn't leave the cola in that cup! I didn't grab it hard, anyway." and he continues, trying to wriggle out of it.</p><p></p><p>If instead you had said, "Oh dear, you didn't know there was cola there. Oh well, we'd better clean that up quickly before the ants find it. Here's a cloth, you get started mopping it (press down on it here then wring it out), I'll go get the sponge and water and together we'll work on it," then you will find a different response. If he starts to say, "I didn't mean to do it, it's not my fault so I shouldn't have to clean it up," you take the wind out of the blame sails with, "I'm not blaming you, or blaming me. This isn't about blame, it's about things sometimes just happening and we all work as a team to help fix the problem before it becomes a bigger problem. Because a bigger problem WOULD be a matter of blame, if we didn't use the chance we have now."</p><p></p><p>Working as a team to get tasks done may grate on you, especially if you privately DO blame him, but it does begin to break the cycle and it also gets him worknig cooperatively, generally in better spirits. Don't force it, never give an ultimatum, just ask for cooperation. Even sing the song from Sesame Street "Cooperation, make it happen, cooperation working together..."</p><p></p><p>Help him with a task of his, too. Again, you're setting an example.</p><p></p><p>as for him saying he can do what he likes, you can't stop him - I would call that a typical teen response. I don't know any teen who hasn't either said that or muttered it under his breath at some stage. It was said in the heat of the moment and as such I feel should be ignored (but keep an eye on the windows).</p><p></p><p>Punishment doesn't work half as well as encouragement and praise. To kids like this punishment generally seems like mean behaviour and bullying, like you're throwing your weight around because you can. They resent it, they feel angry and as a result, there is no positive learning outcome. And for our kids, ALL discipline should bring a positive learning outcome. "Oh, I am being punished because I did X wrong. Next time to avoid being punished I will do X right." It actually works better to both praise the child for doing X right, and also say if they get it wrong, "Let's talk about tihs. How could you have done it better? Now let's work together, let me watch while you do it, I'll see if I can help show you where it starts to go wrong, so you can be able to get it right next time."</p><p></p><p>Tha magic of this is, it works. Plus it gets right away from bad cop, good cop. Any of the bad cop good cop stuff remaining generally gets turned onto the non-active parent, the one not teaching coperation and positive reinforcement. Suddenly you will become the good cop and if husband is not on board with this, he will find himself the bad cop (visualise the surprised, "What did I do?" reaction from him).</p><p></p><p>Read "Explosive Child". It works. It gets you away from the hours of explanation (and therefore should make your efforts easier as well as more effective).</p><p></p><p>THink about what your aims are. Think about how you go about them. Think about what is working and what is not. And if it's not working - give it up. It will be OK, trust me. For whatever reason (nature or nurture) this kid is a difficult child. That means he will benefit from a different approach, lateral thinking.</p><p></p><p>On the one hand he sounds like if he had two heads, you've be wanting to bang them together. But other things you've said tell me, he is not a lost cause. far from it. Underneath it all is a decent kid who is very frustrated, vey angry and doesn't know how to express this properly.</p><p></p><p>Keep us posted on how you go.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 323738, member: 1991"] Sorry. By typical teen I mean "typical teen" but not meaning to downrate any problems you may have - in your son's case he's been through a vast amount of nasty stuff, enough to send any normal kid off the rails. There may be an underlying condition adding to things, but given what he's been through, that alone would account for a lot of what you describe. PDHPE - it's a school subject here, it stands for "Personal Development, Health and Physical Education". It's a lot more than just sport, they work on a lot of social stuff as well. That teacher this year has done a lot for difficult child 3 with his social interactions and social skills in a broad scale. he had to modify a lot of his lessons for difficult child 3 but yesterday he told difficult child 3 that he (the teacher) has a profoundly handicapped brother. It was in discussion over another child we know who has had to be removed form the home even though his mother is doing the best anyone could. But her son simply needs constant supervision 24/7, and nobody can do that. The aggression you describe often happens in Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), but generally not as a primary factor (although it looks it). It is more likely the child's aggressive response to a world that just won't stay still and behave. Blaming is a big problem but if he's Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), he will have picked up this behaviour from his environment. These kids learn, FAST, by modelling their behaviour on those around them they perceive as role models. So if you or his teachers use blame, he will too. And even if you don't always use it, he has seen it used effectively and has got into the habit of it. You need to get him into a new habit (which takes a lot of effort) in order to help him overcome this. But we did it. It can be done. as for venting - feel free. It's what we're here for. You need to vent somewhere and it's better for it to be here, than your kids. Or your friends. Back to blaming - observe yourself and what you say (to both boys, to your husband, to everyone). We can get into our own habits. I know I did. Part of it also is a reaction to our kids, we are trying to get the point home to them and in doing so, we end up teaching them to blame. Example - "Why did you grab that cup without checking to see what was inside it? Now there's cola spilled all over the floor!" The instinctive reaction to this, especially in the highly-flammable Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids, is to say, "No I didn't! Besides, I didn't leave the cola in that cup! I didn't grab it hard, anyway." and he continues, trying to wriggle out of it. If instead you had said, "Oh dear, you didn't know there was cola there. Oh well, we'd better clean that up quickly before the ants find it. Here's a cloth, you get started mopping it (press down on it here then wring it out), I'll go get the sponge and water and together we'll work on it," then you will find a different response. If he starts to say, "I didn't mean to do it, it's not my fault so I shouldn't have to clean it up," you take the wind out of the blame sails with, "I'm not blaming you, or blaming me. This isn't about blame, it's about things sometimes just happening and we all work as a team to help fix the problem before it becomes a bigger problem. Because a bigger problem WOULD be a matter of blame, if we didn't use the chance we have now." Working as a team to get tasks done may grate on you, especially if you privately DO blame him, but it does begin to break the cycle and it also gets him worknig cooperatively, generally in better spirits. Don't force it, never give an ultimatum, just ask for cooperation. Even sing the song from Sesame Street "Cooperation, make it happen, cooperation working together..." Help him with a task of his, too. Again, you're setting an example. as for him saying he can do what he likes, you can't stop him - I would call that a typical teen response. I don't know any teen who hasn't either said that or muttered it under his breath at some stage. It was said in the heat of the moment and as such I feel should be ignored (but keep an eye on the windows). Punishment doesn't work half as well as encouragement and praise. To kids like this punishment generally seems like mean behaviour and bullying, like you're throwing your weight around because you can. They resent it, they feel angry and as a result, there is no positive learning outcome. And for our kids, ALL discipline should bring a positive learning outcome. "Oh, I am being punished because I did X wrong. Next time to avoid being punished I will do X right." It actually works better to both praise the child for doing X right, and also say if they get it wrong, "Let's talk about tihs. How could you have done it better? Now let's work together, let me watch while you do it, I'll see if I can help show you where it starts to go wrong, so you can be able to get it right next time." Tha magic of this is, it works. Plus it gets right away from bad cop, good cop. Any of the bad cop good cop stuff remaining generally gets turned onto the non-active parent, the one not teaching coperation and positive reinforcement. Suddenly you will become the good cop and if husband is not on board with this, he will find himself the bad cop (visualise the surprised, "What did I do?" reaction from him). Read "Explosive Child". It works. It gets you away from the hours of explanation (and therefore should make your efforts easier as well as more effective). THink about what your aims are. Think about how you go about them. Think about what is working and what is not. And if it's not working - give it up. It will be OK, trust me. For whatever reason (nature or nurture) this kid is a difficult child. That means he will benefit from a different approach, lateral thinking. On the one hand he sounds like if he had two heads, you've be wanting to bang them together. But other things you've said tell me, he is not a lost cause. far from it. Underneath it all is a decent kid who is very frustrated, vey angry and doesn't know how to express this properly. Keep us posted on how you go. Marg [/QUOTE]
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