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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 21828" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I endorse MidWest Mom - do the online Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) questionnaire. Although it's not formally diagnostic it can really give you a sense of direction. If she and I are right (and it will take a specialist to confirm this) then you can take heart that your son is NOT being deliberately naughty or deliberately trying to distract everybody. It's just how he is; it's compulsive to make noises, to obsess about certain objects, shapes, colours, movement. And to h*ll with what anyone else wants from him. What HE feels he needs is of most importance because it's all he feels he can rely on. Everything else is coming from outside of him and he hasn't yet connected that it's you he needs to please.</p><p></p><p>The language delay could well be a huge part of this. And the insistence on doing things HIS way. The difficulty getting him to do certain things - it's often an issue of having trouble changing tasks. Even if what he's doing is something he doesn't really like, if he's got himself settled and is doing it, and you come up and want to change it immediately, you have a fight on your hands. Am I right?</p><p></p><p>There are ways to work through this, but you have to stop banging heads with him and work WITH his oddities. I give time warnings. Plus, we have a timetable difficult child 3 has to follow and a daily routine for the whole household. A lot of it is just what happens anyway, but it's helpful to recognise that if we change the routine we need to be aware that it is likely to cause problems.</p><p></p><p>For example - difficult child 3 is playing his computer game. I may have told him to have his bath. After 6 pm our rule is he must stop playing in order to do things like eat dinner or have his bath, but I know he needs help. We USED to tell him, then tell him again, then again, and finally walking up and shutting off the game. This would provoke outrage and he STILL would not get his bath or his dinner without more shouting. The evening would be a write-off and we would all be angry.</p><p>Now - I tell him, "It's time for your bath. Either pause your game or get to a save point fast, then have your bath." I might ask him how long he thinks he needs. Or I might tell him, "you have fifteen minutes." Then I get a brightly coloured sticker (Post-it note) and stick it on the corner of the TV, with the time on it. I might write, "bath - by 6.15 pm." That way he can;t claim to not know. And these kids often DO forget they've been told, or are concentrating so hard they don't hear. The note proves I wasn't lying when I come back and say, "Why aren't you in your bath?"</p><p>By this stage, if he hasn't been able to save and stop the game, he will pause it to have his bath. That's because he knows I will not shut it off. To do so is to show him disrespect. Some people may think this is pandering to a badly behaved kid and spoiling him, but it doesn't work that way. Instead, I'm modelling for him the behaviour I want him to show. By showing him respect, I am teaching him to show respect. And it IS working.</p><p>Yes, there are times when he says the wrong thing. Often it's because an adult that day has modelled this for him. Listen to how parents/grandparents talk to kids. They often demand respect and get angry and punish if they don't get respect. This, with these kids, works the opposite. If you get angry and punish these kids, they think this is the right way for them to behave. So they do it back. And we punish again. And we wonder why their behaviour is getting worse, not better. Example again - difficult child 3 was sitting in the car next to grandma. He had asked a question and while I tried to answer it for him, grandma softly spoke the answer to him. He couldn't hear us both (and grandma should have not tried to say anything, we've tried to enforce with everybody, "one person speaking at a time" round difficult child 3) and so he got cross with grandma. He said crossly, "You spoke too softly. I'm not deaf!" We scolded him for being rude to grandma (he's far enough along "The Explosive Child" for us to be working on behaviour) and he accepted it, but really, his reaction was understandable. It took us a long time to establish ground rules for managing his behaviour and "too many cooks" was the first thing we worked on. Trouble is, we're a large family and people WILL keep putting in their oar and then expecting us to chastise him when he gets angry at being told off by everybody in the room. But we won't chastise another adult in his hearing, if we can help it. It's also part of teaching him respect.</p><p></p><p>A lot of this is explained more in "The Explosive Child". There is some discussion on this book on the Early Childhood forum - have a read through.</p><p></p><p>The biggest problem I see for you - convincing your husband to change from being an authoritarian to being much more relaxed with discipline. I'm making assumptions I know, but you said he's in the Navy and away a lot. This is likely to mean that when he comes home he seems to think that strict, consistent discipline will fix it. it won't. It will probably make things worse, which is why you're seeing what you describe as oppositional behaviour.</p><p></p><p>I'm hoping that it's not oppositional. Not yet. It will become so, fully fledged, if you can't get some answers though. So while you're waiting for someone to make up their mind about what hid diagnosis is, play with some discipline alternatives. Consistency is important - not just in discipline. You can't change the rules you've set down, halfway through. If you have announced a punishment and he completes it but halfheartedly (but he HAS completed it) you shouldn't suddenly change the punishment to include extra. After all, if he's being so difficult all you would need to do is wait and he will transgress again, if he's being defiant.</p><p></p><p>The thing is, I don't think this is defiance. It just looks like it.</p><p></p><p>Something that might help - try sitting beside him, watch what he does, maybe even do what he does.If he's building with Lego, do the same. If he's playing a computer game, ask him if you can join in (and get him to show you how). Try and get into his head. Observe the way he moves, what he looks at, what makes him happy and what makes him frustrated. Take notes. Keep a diary. Read through it to see if you can see any patterns.</p><p></p><p>If we're right, this can be good news. There are a lot of good things that can be done for these kids nowadays. They have some remarkable qualities and, with the right support, can make you so very proud of them. They ARE a lot of work but it is worth it, in my opinion. Very much worth it.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 21828, member: 1991"] I endorse MidWest Mom - do the online Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) questionnaire. Although it's not formally diagnostic it can really give you a sense of direction. If she and I are right (and it will take a specialist to confirm this) then you can take heart that your son is NOT being deliberately naughty or deliberately trying to distract everybody. It's just how he is; it's compulsive to make noises, to obsess about certain objects, shapes, colours, movement. And to h*ll with what anyone else wants from him. What HE feels he needs is of most importance because it's all he feels he can rely on. Everything else is coming from outside of him and he hasn't yet connected that it's you he needs to please. The language delay could well be a huge part of this. And the insistence on doing things HIS way. The difficulty getting him to do certain things - it's often an issue of having trouble changing tasks. Even if what he's doing is something he doesn't really like, if he's got himself settled and is doing it, and you come up and want to change it immediately, you have a fight on your hands. Am I right? There are ways to work through this, but you have to stop banging heads with him and work WITH his oddities. I give time warnings. Plus, we have a timetable difficult child 3 has to follow and a daily routine for the whole household. A lot of it is just what happens anyway, but it's helpful to recognise that if we change the routine we need to be aware that it is likely to cause problems. For example - difficult child 3 is playing his computer game. I may have told him to have his bath. After 6 pm our rule is he must stop playing in order to do things like eat dinner or have his bath, but I know he needs help. We USED to tell him, then tell him again, then again, and finally walking up and shutting off the game. This would provoke outrage and he STILL would not get his bath or his dinner without more shouting. The evening would be a write-off and we would all be angry. Now - I tell him, "It's time for your bath. Either pause your game or get to a save point fast, then have your bath." I might ask him how long he thinks he needs. Or I might tell him, "you have fifteen minutes." Then I get a brightly coloured sticker (Post-it note) and stick it on the corner of the TV, with the time on it. I might write, "bath - by 6.15 pm." That way he can;t claim to not know. And these kids often DO forget they've been told, or are concentrating so hard they don't hear. The note proves I wasn't lying when I come back and say, "Why aren't you in your bath?" By this stage, if he hasn't been able to save and stop the game, he will pause it to have his bath. That's because he knows I will not shut it off. To do so is to show him disrespect. Some people may think this is pandering to a badly behaved kid and spoiling him, but it doesn't work that way. Instead, I'm modelling for him the behaviour I want him to show. By showing him respect, I am teaching him to show respect. And it IS working. Yes, there are times when he says the wrong thing. Often it's because an adult that day has modelled this for him. Listen to how parents/grandparents talk to kids. They often demand respect and get angry and punish if they don't get respect. This, with these kids, works the opposite. If you get angry and punish these kids, they think this is the right way for them to behave. So they do it back. And we punish again. And we wonder why their behaviour is getting worse, not better. Example again - difficult child 3 was sitting in the car next to grandma. He had asked a question and while I tried to answer it for him, grandma softly spoke the answer to him. He couldn't hear us both (and grandma should have not tried to say anything, we've tried to enforce with everybody, "one person speaking at a time" round difficult child 3) and so he got cross with grandma. He said crossly, "You spoke too softly. I'm not deaf!" We scolded him for being rude to grandma (he's far enough along "The Explosive Child" for us to be working on behaviour) and he accepted it, but really, his reaction was understandable. It took us a long time to establish ground rules for managing his behaviour and "too many cooks" was the first thing we worked on. Trouble is, we're a large family and people WILL keep putting in their oar and then expecting us to chastise him when he gets angry at being told off by everybody in the room. But we won't chastise another adult in his hearing, if we can help it. It's also part of teaching him respect. A lot of this is explained more in "The Explosive Child". There is some discussion on this book on the Early Childhood forum - have a read through. The biggest problem I see for you - convincing your husband to change from being an authoritarian to being much more relaxed with discipline. I'm making assumptions I know, but you said he's in the Navy and away a lot. This is likely to mean that when he comes home he seems to think that strict, consistent discipline will fix it. it won't. It will probably make things worse, which is why you're seeing what you describe as oppositional behaviour. I'm hoping that it's not oppositional. Not yet. It will become so, fully fledged, if you can't get some answers though. So while you're waiting for someone to make up their mind about what hid diagnosis is, play with some discipline alternatives. Consistency is important - not just in discipline. You can't change the rules you've set down, halfway through. If you have announced a punishment and he completes it but halfheartedly (but he HAS completed it) you shouldn't suddenly change the punishment to include extra. After all, if he's being so difficult all you would need to do is wait and he will transgress again, if he's being defiant. The thing is, I don't think this is defiance. It just looks like it. Something that might help - try sitting beside him, watch what he does, maybe even do what he does.If he's building with Lego, do the same. If he's playing a computer game, ask him if you can join in (and get him to show you how). Try and get into his head. Observe the way he moves, what he looks at, what makes him happy and what makes him frustrated. Take notes. Keep a diary. Read through it to see if you can see any patterns. If we're right, this can be good news. There are a lot of good things that can be done for these kids nowadays. They have some remarkable qualities and, with the right support, can make you so very proud of them. They ARE a lot of work but it is worth it, in my opinion. Very much worth it. Marg [/QUOTE]
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