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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 361035" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I don't get the sense that you feel guilty. Not at all - and you shouldn't feel guilty, as others have pointed out. Sometimes this happens - a child has problems despite his parents doing the best they can, certainly not because of it.</p><p></p><p>And you're right - it's not fair. You are good parents; so why should YOU have the problem child?</p><p></p><p>Actually, this is a very helpful observation of yours. You can turn this around and keep telling yourselves - we are good parents. So this is NOT our fault.</p><p></p><p>But you also need to tell yourselves - this is not our son's fault either. Something is wrong and your instinct has alerted you correctly - it is time to identify the problem so you can begin to help him more specifically.</p><p></p><p>In the meantime - although you are doing all the right things according to all the 'rules' on conventional and responsible parenting, clearly they are NOT the right things for your son, at the moment. Again - this is not a matter of fault, or blame. It simply IS. For example, if your child had a severe hearing deficit and you were punishing your child for not answering you or coming when called, then you would be doing the wrong thing, even if you didn't know your child was deaf. And with hearing, sometimes it can be really difficult to identify, especially with a smart child who has self-taught lipreading. Such a child does seem to fully understand when you have eye contact, but not respond when there is no eye contact. And a good parent could still misunderstand this as insolence, when it would be deafness.</p><p>Anyway, that is purely a hypothetical example.</p><p></p><p>What I'm saying - your son is different. The usual parenting methods are not working. That said - I strongly suspect that the bad parenting methods you are observing, of parents hitting their kids or shouting at them, would work even less!</p><p></p><p>What you need to do here, is recognise that first, you are doing the right things as far as you can. But it's not working. SO you need to find out why, so you can change to something that hopefully can work better.</p><p></p><p>You won't get it perfectly. But chances are, you can find something that can improve things.</p><p></p><p>"Explosive Child" can help you here. A big clue - try to get inside his head and try to see the world through his eyes. He will ALWAYS have a good reason for everything he does, a reason that makes sense from his point of view. </p><p>I'll give you another example - typical playground push and shove. One boy has a short fuse because he's been on the receiving end of a lot of push and shove previously, and he also tends to push back a bit harder, perhaps because he is a little bigger and stronger. Another boy is either a bit smaller, or a bit more reluctant to physically touch other kids, so he is less likely to shove. But if provoked enough to the point where he gets angry, all the pent-up frustration will break through with this second boy and he will shove much harder.</p><p></p><p>First boy is having a bad morning - he had an argument with his mother before he was dropped off at school. He is feeling angry and frustrated; his fuse is shorter than usual. He sees smaller boy and takes his frustration out on the boy who usually doesn't push back. But maybe this time it was the last straw for the second boy; besides, someone has touched HIM, and so he snaps and slams the bigger boy.</p><p>Teachers rush up. What happened? Why? Who is responsible?</p><p>The answer here - both boys, and neither. Getting inside the head of each boy will provide answers which can help de-fuse problems in the future as well as resolve current conflicts. But too often, schools or parents focus on punishing the immediately past event and not really DEALING with the why or how. And with both boys, punishing won't change the short fuse nor will it change the underlying frustrations. But perhaps giving the boys a voice, especially with one another, can help to a greater extent. Getting inside each boy's head can help you find a DIFFERENT way.</p><p></p><p>It can take longer, until you get a good 'feel' for each kid. Sometimes it can be as simple as, "Boy 1, you shouldn't let your anger with one person, such as your mother, be taken out on someone else. Boy 2, maybe you need to find a way to feel safe with friendship."</p><p>It is possible for two such boys to become friends, when they can learn to understand one another. But even if tis doesn't happen, they can learn respect for one another, and each other's situation. Sometimes they need someone to sit with them and make it clear - time to wipe the slate clean and start completely fresh. All past hurts from each other now have to be erased. And the coping strategies for the future - if they can't be friends, then they can be polite to one another but otherwise avoid one another. That, too, is a valid coping strategy.</p><p></p><p>Punishment on its own won't teach a lot of these valuable skills, especially at such a young age. If your son is surrounded by kids whose parents yell and hit, then they are likely to be using these techniques themselves (the kids I mean) on your son. This will probably be undermining your own upbringing methods and lessons for your son, by teaching him different lessons.</p><p></p><p>Another example, from my youngest - difficult child 3. We taught him - do not hit. It was also a school rule - do not hit. But the teachers were not always present, and his classmates were sons of local bullies. So when the teacher was absent, there would be a lot of pushing and shoving. difficult child 3 would generally be on the end of the line of kids waiting to go into class (I can describe this because I often was also waiting to see the teacher - this would happen in my presence, despite my presence and I was horrified that my presence did absolutely nothing. Perhaps because when I reported what I saw to the teacher, he did absolutely nothing to back me up).</p><p>difficult child 3 would be either at the beginning or the end of the line. And somewhere in the line, a boy would shove, to make the lie fall like dominoes. By the end of the line, the fall gets nasty. The second last and the last boys would get hurt the most, falling onto the ground or onto schoolbags. difficult child 3, with a short fuse, would often get up and hit the second-last boy because he did not realise that the problem was a shove further up the line. Meanwhile the boy who shoved (and his gang - there were about a dozen of these darlings) would be standing there grinning because by this stage there was strife and a fight happening, difficult child 3 in the middle of it. And the original cause was no longer a concern for the teacher.</p><p></p><p>I saw these "line shoves" happen countless times. I saw teachers rush in and punish the last kid to fall far too often (even where there was no retaliation). I even heard difficult child 3 getting into trouble from teachers for falling down; they even claimed he was trying to 'act silly' as a distraction. So it was no wonder the boy doing the shoving kept it up - there was a lot of enjoyment in it, and little in the way of consequences for him.</p><p></p><p>With a kid with ADHD or any level of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), this can be immensely unjust and therefore highly upsetting. I mentioned the honesty that these kids tend to have - so being accused of lying, or of anything like this, can be very upsetting for them and when they get upset, you can't do a think with them. Mind you, they don't start out honest as a rule. All kids try to lie, to get out of trouble. But Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids are generally so bad at it tat they always get caught. So they learn to be honest. And after some time, when they KNOW they are being honest, being told they are not is what is upsetting to them and you can easily trigger a rage by even a mild suggestion that what they said may not be the whole truth.</p><p></p><p>ADHD kids can have a lot of similarity here. Some can lie; some cannot. But they generally all have a short fuse, and generally all get into trouble for a lot more than they are actually responsible for. It's a matter of reputation; deserved, or undeserved.</p><p></p><p>So as I was trying to say - conventional good parenting can, with these kids, actually work against you. Finding a way that is better for your child, is something that can help a lot. But never feel guilty for trying to be the best parent you can be. None of us gets it right all the time. But we try - we love our kids. That is what matters. We are prepared to do what we have to, in order to help our kids. That is what makes a good parent.</p><p></p><p>Guilt only slows you down. </p><p></p><p>As for the regrets and the pain that your child is not what you believed - that is understandable. Never feel guilty for your natural grief. But as soon as you can, roll those shirtsleeves back up and move on. because the child you have now, is the child that needs you.</p><p></p><p>Even in this modern day and age, I think it is even harder for fathers when it's their beloved only son who suddenly is not what he expected. The grief is legitimate and necessary, in order for the dad to be able to move on and continue to love the son he has. Please tell your husband this for me.</p><p></p><p>And welcome to this forum, both of you.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 361035, member: 1991"] I don't get the sense that you feel guilty. Not at all - and you shouldn't feel guilty, as others have pointed out. Sometimes this happens - a child has problems despite his parents doing the best they can, certainly not because of it. And you're right - it's not fair. You are good parents; so why should YOU have the problem child? Actually, this is a very helpful observation of yours. You can turn this around and keep telling yourselves - we are good parents. So this is NOT our fault. But you also need to tell yourselves - this is not our son's fault either. Something is wrong and your instinct has alerted you correctly - it is time to identify the problem so you can begin to help him more specifically. In the meantime - although you are doing all the right things according to all the 'rules' on conventional and responsible parenting, clearly they are NOT the right things for your son, at the moment. Again - this is not a matter of fault, or blame. It simply IS. For example, if your child had a severe hearing deficit and you were punishing your child for not answering you or coming when called, then you would be doing the wrong thing, even if you didn't know your child was deaf. And with hearing, sometimes it can be really difficult to identify, especially with a smart child who has self-taught lipreading. Such a child does seem to fully understand when you have eye contact, but not respond when there is no eye contact. And a good parent could still misunderstand this as insolence, when it would be deafness. Anyway, that is purely a hypothetical example. What I'm saying - your son is different. The usual parenting methods are not working. That said - I strongly suspect that the bad parenting methods you are observing, of parents hitting their kids or shouting at them, would work even less! What you need to do here, is recognise that first, you are doing the right things as far as you can. But it's not working. SO you need to find out why, so you can change to something that hopefully can work better. You won't get it perfectly. But chances are, you can find something that can improve things. "Explosive Child" can help you here. A big clue - try to get inside his head and try to see the world through his eyes. He will ALWAYS have a good reason for everything he does, a reason that makes sense from his point of view. I'll give you another example - typical playground push and shove. One boy has a short fuse because he's been on the receiving end of a lot of push and shove previously, and he also tends to push back a bit harder, perhaps because he is a little bigger and stronger. Another boy is either a bit smaller, or a bit more reluctant to physically touch other kids, so he is less likely to shove. But if provoked enough to the point where he gets angry, all the pent-up frustration will break through with this second boy and he will shove much harder. First boy is having a bad morning - he had an argument with his mother before he was dropped off at school. He is feeling angry and frustrated; his fuse is shorter than usual. He sees smaller boy and takes his frustration out on the boy who usually doesn't push back. But maybe this time it was the last straw for the second boy; besides, someone has touched HIM, and so he snaps and slams the bigger boy. Teachers rush up. What happened? Why? Who is responsible? The answer here - both boys, and neither. Getting inside the head of each boy will provide answers which can help de-fuse problems in the future as well as resolve current conflicts. But too often, schools or parents focus on punishing the immediately past event and not really DEALING with the why or how. And with both boys, punishing won't change the short fuse nor will it change the underlying frustrations. But perhaps giving the boys a voice, especially with one another, can help to a greater extent. Getting inside each boy's head can help you find a DIFFERENT way. It can take longer, until you get a good 'feel' for each kid. Sometimes it can be as simple as, "Boy 1, you shouldn't let your anger with one person, such as your mother, be taken out on someone else. Boy 2, maybe you need to find a way to feel safe with friendship." It is possible for two such boys to become friends, when they can learn to understand one another. But even if tis doesn't happen, they can learn respect for one another, and each other's situation. Sometimes they need someone to sit with them and make it clear - time to wipe the slate clean and start completely fresh. All past hurts from each other now have to be erased. And the coping strategies for the future - if they can't be friends, then they can be polite to one another but otherwise avoid one another. That, too, is a valid coping strategy. Punishment on its own won't teach a lot of these valuable skills, especially at such a young age. If your son is surrounded by kids whose parents yell and hit, then they are likely to be using these techniques themselves (the kids I mean) on your son. This will probably be undermining your own upbringing methods and lessons for your son, by teaching him different lessons. Another example, from my youngest - difficult child 3. We taught him - do not hit. It was also a school rule - do not hit. But the teachers were not always present, and his classmates were sons of local bullies. So when the teacher was absent, there would be a lot of pushing and shoving. difficult child 3 would generally be on the end of the line of kids waiting to go into class (I can describe this because I often was also waiting to see the teacher - this would happen in my presence, despite my presence and I was horrified that my presence did absolutely nothing. Perhaps because when I reported what I saw to the teacher, he did absolutely nothing to back me up). difficult child 3 would be either at the beginning or the end of the line. And somewhere in the line, a boy would shove, to make the lie fall like dominoes. By the end of the line, the fall gets nasty. The second last and the last boys would get hurt the most, falling onto the ground or onto schoolbags. difficult child 3, with a short fuse, would often get up and hit the second-last boy because he did not realise that the problem was a shove further up the line. Meanwhile the boy who shoved (and his gang - there were about a dozen of these darlings) would be standing there grinning because by this stage there was strife and a fight happening, difficult child 3 in the middle of it. And the original cause was no longer a concern for the teacher. I saw these "line shoves" happen countless times. I saw teachers rush in and punish the last kid to fall far too often (even where there was no retaliation). I even heard difficult child 3 getting into trouble from teachers for falling down; they even claimed he was trying to 'act silly' as a distraction. So it was no wonder the boy doing the shoving kept it up - there was a lot of enjoyment in it, and little in the way of consequences for him. With a kid with ADHD or any level of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), this can be immensely unjust and therefore highly upsetting. I mentioned the honesty that these kids tend to have - so being accused of lying, or of anything like this, can be very upsetting for them and when they get upset, you can't do a think with them. Mind you, they don't start out honest as a rule. All kids try to lie, to get out of trouble. But Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids are generally so bad at it tat they always get caught. So they learn to be honest. And after some time, when they KNOW they are being honest, being told they are not is what is upsetting to them and you can easily trigger a rage by even a mild suggestion that what they said may not be the whole truth. ADHD kids can have a lot of similarity here. Some can lie; some cannot. But they generally all have a short fuse, and generally all get into trouble for a lot more than they are actually responsible for. It's a matter of reputation; deserved, or undeserved. So as I was trying to say - conventional good parenting can, with these kids, actually work against you. Finding a way that is better for your child, is something that can help a lot. But never feel guilty for trying to be the best parent you can be. None of us gets it right all the time. But we try - we love our kids. That is what matters. We are prepared to do what we have to, in order to help our kids. That is what makes a good parent. Guilt only slows you down. As for the regrets and the pain that your child is not what you believed - that is understandable. Never feel guilty for your natural grief. But as soon as you can, roll those shirtsleeves back up and move on. because the child you have now, is the child that needs you. Even in this modern day and age, I think it is even harder for fathers when it's their beloved only son who suddenly is not what he expected. The grief is legitimate and necessary, in order for the dad to be able to move on and continue to love the son he has. Please tell your husband this for me. And welcome to this forum, both of you. Marg [/QUOTE]
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