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husband inappropriate response?
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 84693" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>OK, he really sounds confused. It really sounds like everything he says or does is designed to come back to being about him and his needs.</p><p></p><p>He's upset you didn't tell him; but you ARE telling him. Then when you try to bring it back to why you took yourself to counselling, because he felt you had your own problems, he then says, "See - that's why I don't like telling you anything."</p><p>So it's alright for HIM to not tell you things, but it's deeply wounding for you to not tell HIM? Sorry, this doesn't wash.</p><p></p><p>The counsellor's advice is probably about the best thing you could do - don't let yourself buy into husband's dramas - but you have to know it takes a lot of effort to break old habits. You've already said husband has never changed despite many attempts in the past to get through to him; what about you? Are you also as unable to make changes? I do think her suggestion is a good target. You don't have to instantly achieve total detachment, just aim for it. With a man who keeps trying to make it always all about him, it's probably the best defence you have, to not take on board the negativity he keeps throwing at you. And by not taking it on board, eventually he must realise that the ball is still in his court, you haven't accepted ownership of anything he's thrown at you, so he has to acknowledge it at some level.</p><p></p><p>My husband HAS known about my going to counselling in the past. But I know I'm lucky, he has always accepted that I make these decisions for a good reason. He MIGHT say, "Why didn't you tell me before?" and if I hadn't, I might say, "I just needed to do this as a private thing; I was afraid that if I discussed it too much I might chicken out, and this is something I feel I need to do, in order to be more available emotionally for you." And with my husband, he probably would be upset I didn't tell him before, because he knows we don't have problems on this issue. But even if he did - we should be able to get past the "you didn't tell me," and onto "Why did you feel so bad that you went to a counsellor without even feeling you could tell me? Is it something I've been doing?"</p><p>Your husband knows, deep down, that it probably IS something to do with him as to why you didn't tell him before. But this denial thing of his is getting in the way of so much appropriate communication.</p><p></p><p>A friend of mine was brought up in a household of denial. She has A LOT of emotional problems and finally plucked up the courage to see a counsellor, especially when her doctor insisted. She came home from hr first counselling session and her husband said, "So - are you cured now?"</p><p>He's a nice bloke, but always making jokes. But because he felt uncomfortable about the counselling and felt he HAD to make a joke of it to cover his discomfort, she never went back.</p><p></p><p>Such a pity.</p><p></p><p>Your husband sounds like he's put you in a parental role and is now behaving like a spoilt child who can't get his own way, and is now trying to make YOU feel bad for his tantrum.</p><p></p><p>In any relationship, there is a degree of interdependence. This is healthy. And perhaps the term "co-dependent" is a bit ambiguous, you would think that having this connection with each other where you do the shopping and he picks up the dry cleaning, for example, would be a good thing. </p><p></p><p>But that's not what co-dependent means. From my own observations ( my friend's parents - same friend I just mentioned who only saw her counsellor once) - "co-dependent" is refusing to let any health team people near your husband, to assess the degree of severity of his Alzheimer's, because you need him at home with you so you feel wanted. The wife's increasing blindness, loss of sense of smell so she often served up decayed leftovers, her alcoholism and severe degenerative osteoarthritis should have had her in a nursing home. Her husband's dementia was progressing rapidly, he was going deaf and getting paranoid. He was often physically violent to his wife and threatened his daughter. He would cook the meals but often leave the stove on and food out to rot. Due to his paranoia and her pride, all home help was denied - "I won't have strangers in my house" and "I won't eat packaged meals from the hospital, we haven't sunk THAT low" (they had).</p><p>Individually they both needed to be in care. Collectively, they covered up for each other and refused any medical treatment that risked separating them. because of this refusal, both deteriorated in health and other areas. </p><p></p><p>This is co-dependence.</p><p></p><p>Co-dependent is when the interconnectedness of your combined dysfunctions is designed to keep each other malfunctioning in order to be able to maintain some faulty status quo. While the old woman COULD have asked for help, it would have meant being separated from her husband and she couldn't get past her fear of what he would do to her when any enforced separation ended. Everything in this old woman's life was designed to keep her husband happy. "Keep the peace at all costs". And for her towards the end, the cost was her own physical health and sanity. Eventually he fell and broke his hip. Both went into hospital. He never came out. She was treated for alcoholism and malnutrition and is now in a nursing home under strict supervision. But I digress...</p><p></p><p>Terry, I think your own self-analysis is spot-on. You were raised to "cooperate to keep the peace". "Peace at any cost" is a heavy burden for a child, when any yelling then seems to be all your fault for doing SOMETHING wrong, because the peace has been shattered and you failed to keep it.</p><p>Throw in husband's denial and you have problems. You constantly will try to placate him; he will constantly avoid taking responsibility or even accepting any painful truths. And if he gets upset at being made to see anything he doesn't want to see, your early training snaps in to protect him. No wonder you're now in a parental role! How could you avoid it? Add in his insistence that science will fix it and you have someone innately scared of counselling or any similar "mumbo jumbo". (My in-laws felt the same about counselling - I was scared they'd find out I was seeing a counsellor but deliberately chose to not tell them. They would have reacted like your husband). Your husband said issues with difficult child were just between you two - and now you're spilling your guts to a counsellor. What could you be revealing, about you both, about him... about all sorts of things he doesn't want out in the open. Denial is about making sure anything unpleasant never sees the light of day again, and you're dragging it all out for everyone to see the dirty laundry (in his mind). </p><p></p><p>You mentioned intimacy issues - this can also happen when you find yourself in a parental role. It happened with easy child 2/difficult child 2 and e-boyfriend. Kfld has mentioned similar issues coming to the surface in her counselling (posted in Watercooler). It's a genuine problem and maybe if you can successfully detach (and leave the parental role) you may find intimacy problems improving.</p><p></p><p>Linda's advice on moderating your language is very good - by changing "you" statements to "I" statements, you then leave it entirely up to the listener, to either get upset or not, at what you've said. When you say something like, "You are a lazy, dirty slob for not wiping your boots off before you walk in the house," the person you're speaking to is very likely to get upset - you just called them a lazy slob. But when you say, "I would like you to please wipe your boots off before you come into the house, I really don't like having to keep cleaning the floor when I shouldn't have to," the person COULD get upset, but doesn't have to.</p><p></p><p>Terry, I think you did what you have to do. And I think you have more that you have to do, purely for your own healing. This is going to then challenge husband's way of relating to you, simply because of your changes. Don't be put off by this, I suspect husband is more adaptable than you think. Once he realises you are no longer going to pamper his every whim, he WILL adapt, I'm sure. But it might be difficult for you.</p><p></p><p>Hang in there - it can only get better in the long run. And hopefully this will break the cycle for difficult child, too.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 84693, member: 1991"] OK, he really sounds confused. It really sounds like everything he says or does is designed to come back to being about him and his needs. He's upset you didn't tell him; but you ARE telling him. Then when you try to bring it back to why you took yourself to counselling, because he felt you had your own problems, he then says, "See - that's why I don't like telling you anything." So it's alright for HIM to not tell you things, but it's deeply wounding for you to not tell HIM? Sorry, this doesn't wash. The counsellor's advice is probably about the best thing you could do - don't let yourself buy into husband's dramas - but you have to know it takes a lot of effort to break old habits. You've already said husband has never changed despite many attempts in the past to get through to him; what about you? Are you also as unable to make changes? I do think her suggestion is a good target. You don't have to instantly achieve total detachment, just aim for it. With a man who keeps trying to make it always all about him, it's probably the best defence you have, to not take on board the negativity he keeps throwing at you. And by not taking it on board, eventually he must realise that the ball is still in his court, you haven't accepted ownership of anything he's thrown at you, so he has to acknowledge it at some level. My husband HAS known about my going to counselling in the past. But I know I'm lucky, he has always accepted that I make these decisions for a good reason. He MIGHT say, "Why didn't you tell me before?" and if I hadn't, I might say, "I just needed to do this as a private thing; I was afraid that if I discussed it too much I might chicken out, and this is something I feel I need to do, in order to be more available emotionally for you." And with my husband, he probably would be upset I didn't tell him before, because he knows we don't have problems on this issue. But even if he did - we should be able to get past the "you didn't tell me," and onto "Why did you feel so bad that you went to a counsellor without even feeling you could tell me? Is it something I've been doing?" Your husband knows, deep down, that it probably IS something to do with him as to why you didn't tell him before. But this denial thing of his is getting in the way of so much appropriate communication. A friend of mine was brought up in a household of denial. She has A LOT of emotional problems and finally plucked up the courage to see a counsellor, especially when her doctor insisted. She came home from hr first counselling session and her husband said, "So - are you cured now?" He's a nice bloke, but always making jokes. But because he felt uncomfortable about the counselling and felt he HAD to make a joke of it to cover his discomfort, she never went back. Such a pity. Your husband sounds like he's put you in a parental role and is now behaving like a spoilt child who can't get his own way, and is now trying to make YOU feel bad for his tantrum. In any relationship, there is a degree of interdependence. This is healthy. And perhaps the term "co-dependent" is a bit ambiguous, you would think that having this connection with each other where you do the shopping and he picks up the dry cleaning, for example, would be a good thing. But that's not what co-dependent means. From my own observations ( my friend's parents - same friend I just mentioned who only saw her counsellor once) - "co-dependent" is refusing to let any health team people near your husband, to assess the degree of severity of his Alzheimer's, because you need him at home with you so you feel wanted. The wife's increasing blindness, loss of sense of smell so she often served up decayed leftovers, her alcoholism and severe degenerative osteoarthritis should have had her in a nursing home. Her husband's dementia was progressing rapidly, he was going deaf and getting paranoid. He was often physically violent to his wife and threatened his daughter. He would cook the meals but often leave the stove on and food out to rot. Due to his paranoia and her pride, all home help was denied - "I won't have strangers in my house" and "I won't eat packaged meals from the hospital, we haven't sunk THAT low" (they had). Individually they both needed to be in care. Collectively, they covered up for each other and refused any medical treatment that risked separating them. because of this refusal, both deteriorated in health and other areas. This is co-dependence. Co-dependent is when the interconnectedness of your combined dysfunctions is designed to keep each other malfunctioning in order to be able to maintain some faulty status quo. While the old woman COULD have asked for help, it would have meant being separated from her husband and she couldn't get past her fear of what he would do to her when any enforced separation ended. Everything in this old woman's life was designed to keep her husband happy. "Keep the peace at all costs". And for her towards the end, the cost was her own physical health and sanity. Eventually he fell and broke his hip. Both went into hospital. He never came out. She was treated for alcoholism and malnutrition and is now in a nursing home under strict supervision. But I digress... Terry, I think your own self-analysis is spot-on. You were raised to "cooperate to keep the peace". "Peace at any cost" is a heavy burden for a child, when any yelling then seems to be all your fault for doing SOMETHING wrong, because the peace has been shattered and you failed to keep it. Throw in husband's denial and you have problems. You constantly will try to placate him; he will constantly avoid taking responsibility or even accepting any painful truths. And if he gets upset at being made to see anything he doesn't want to see, your early training snaps in to protect him. No wonder you're now in a parental role! How could you avoid it? Add in his insistence that science will fix it and you have someone innately scared of counselling or any similar "mumbo jumbo". (My in-laws felt the same about counselling - I was scared they'd find out I was seeing a counsellor but deliberately chose to not tell them. They would have reacted like your husband). Your husband said issues with difficult child were just between you two - and now you're spilling your guts to a counsellor. What could you be revealing, about you both, about him... about all sorts of things he doesn't want out in the open. Denial is about making sure anything unpleasant never sees the light of day again, and you're dragging it all out for everyone to see the dirty laundry (in his mind). You mentioned intimacy issues - this can also happen when you find yourself in a parental role. It happened with easy child 2/difficult child 2 and e-boyfriend. Kfld has mentioned similar issues coming to the surface in her counselling (posted in Watercooler). It's a genuine problem and maybe if you can successfully detach (and leave the parental role) you may find intimacy problems improving. Linda's advice on moderating your language is very good - by changing "you" statements to "I" statements, you then leave it entirely up to the listener, to either get upset or not, at what you've said. When you say something like, "You are a lazy, dirty slob for not wiping your boots off before you walk in the house," the person you're speaking to is very likely to get upset - you just called them a lazy slob. But when you say, "I would like you to please wipe your boots off before you come into the house, I really don't like having to keep cleaning the floor when I shouldn't have to," the person COULD get upset, but doesn't have to. Terry, I think you did what you have to do. And I think you have more that you have to do, purely for your own healing. This is going to then challenge husband's way of relating to you, simply because of your changes. Don't be put off by this, I suspect husband is more adaptable than you think. Once he realises you are no longer going to pamper his every whim, he WILL adapt, I'm sure. But it might be difficult for you. Hang in there - it can only get better in the long run. And hopefully this will break the cycle for difficult child, too. Marg [/QUOTE]
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