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I give up. It hurts too much to hope.
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 661939" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>Those are the hardest words to say, Copa. You did it; you spoke the words that needed to be spoken. The cost of it is on you, now. </p><p></p><p>It is like a whole different version of Hell, to live through this part.</p><p></p><p>But you are here with us. We have been where you are, today. There is some comfort in that.</p><p></p><p>Had you fronted the $250, you would have been fronting other sums for other, equally well-presented reasons very soon. </p><p></p><p>Eventually, you would have had to say "No."</p><p></p><p>Living through this part is hellish. Living through the consequences can be hellish in undreampt of ways. If we enable, we encourage our kids to believe that if only the story is terrible enough, we will come through with money...we turn them into manipulative beggars. If we are able to say "No", then we have made a space for the child to find his own way.</p><p></p><p>I am suspicious that your son softened you up by taunting you with the dream in your heart: That he will enter treatment and will be okay. </p><p></p><p>My daughter has done similar things. It kills something in us to know that.</p><p></p><p>There are parents out there who have never had to face the truths we face routinely. They simply have no clue, those other parents. They judge us harshly. We would do the same, were our situations reversed. It is good to remember things like that. It helps us to understand just how difficult our situations with our kids are. We need to honor that, Copa. We are in very bad places when we love a child who is determined to self-destruct.</p><p></p><p>It is not a weakness for you to feel hopeless, Copa.</p><p></p><p>The situation is that dire; the consequences are that terrible. For me, that I loved her (or him, when it was my son in that position) was all I knew. I did love her (or him). </p><p></p><p>And there was nothing else that I knew for sure.</p><p></p><p>Nothing at all. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you do this Copa, do it so that you will know you have done all you can. Do it so you can meet your own eyes in the mirror.</p><p></p><p>The other side of this is that if your son is ever going to learn to manage his affairs, this is the time he will learn that. Whatever he spent his money on, he did not spend it on the things that he is telling you matter to him now that his money is gone. </p><p></p><p>Where did the money go, Copa?</p><p></p><p>What will you be funding if you give him money, now?</p><p></p><p>D H put money into daughter's account weekly when she was homeless. It wasn't much money...but we learned later that it was a very great deal of money to people who have spent their own money and have no aversion to beating those whose parents have been foolish enough to send more.</p><p></p><p>That is what we learned, later. We would not put the money into her account until we had heard from her. It turned out that she was being beat until she made that call to us.</p><p></p><p>And the money we sent was being taken from her.</p><p></p><p>So, that relationship ended when the male was finally picked up for attempted vehicular homicide of our daughter that had happened some months earlier when our daughter still had money and a vehicle. Though the man had no license, of course, he was driving her vehicle. He had run that vehicle into a stone wall at high speed, claiming he was trying to kill them both. In any event, he was picked up some months later and taken to jail. </p><p></p><p>That is the day she called and asked to come home.</p><p></p><p>It was after that that the male who would beat and leave her for dead entered the picture again.</p><p></p><p>We gave them money, too. Enough to make everything legal for the vehicle they somehow acquired and a little more.</p><p></p><p>And you know how that ended.</p><p></p><p>When we gave daughter nothing, when she knew we would give her nothing, she set her life up differently. She complains bitterly about this state of affairs to this day; she did that when she was here with us on her visit this summer.</p><p></p><p>It has been very hard. </p><p></p><p>That is why I work so hard on our FOO thread, Copa. Because all these things nearly killed me, too. </p><p></p><p>What I have learned on the FOO thread is that the killing part of self recrimination and self blame and self hatred for having failed my children is come of messages hidden so deeply in the core of me that I took them to be true.</p><p></p><p>They were lies, Copa. </p><p></p><p>If we are ever going to help our kids, we need to know exactly why we are doing whatever it is we choose to do for them.</p><p></p><p>For me, I need to hear the virulence in the self condemnation that attends every ever-more unbelievable episode in the saga of the family D H and I have created. I have to try really hard to separate what is valid from what I was taught was valid about me and about what I do.</p><p></p><p>Sometimes, all I know is nothing at all.</p><p></p><p>I know that in theory I believe enabling is paving the road to Hell with gold. Nice road, at the end of things. But it still leads to Hell.</p><p></p><p>So, I don't enable.</p><p></p><p>And that feels really bad.</p><p></p><p>So, I just sit with those feelings. I get quiet. I play music. I think about doing yoga really hard, but just lately, I usually don't do it.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 661939, member: 17461"] Those are the hardest words to say, Copa. You did it; you spoke the words that needed to be spoken. The cost of it is on you, now. It is like a whole different version of Hell, to live through this part. But you are here with us. We have been where you are, today. There is some comfort in that. Had you fronted the $250, you would have been fronting other sums for other, equally well-presented reasons very soon. Eventually, you would have had to say "No." Living through this part is hellish. Living through the consequences can be hellish in undreampt of ways. If we enable, we encourage our kids to believe that if only the story is terrible enough, we will come through with money...we turn them into manipulative beggars. If we are able to say "No", then we have made a space for the child to find his own way. I am suspicious that your son softened you up by taunting you with the dream in your heart: That he will enter treatment and will be okay. My daughter has done similar things. It kills something in us to know that. There are parents out there who have never had to face the truths we face routinely. They simply have no clue, those other parents. They judge us harshly. We would do the same, were our situations reversed. It is good to remember things like that. It helps us to understand just how difficult our situations with our kids are. We need to honor that, Copa. We are in very bad places when we love a child who is determined to self-destruct. It is not a weakness for you to feel hopeless, Copa. The situation is that dire; the consequences are that terrible. For me, that I loved her (or him, when it was my son in that position) was all I knew. I did love her (or him). And there was nothing else that I knew for sure. Nothing at all. If you do this Copa, do it so that you will know you have done all you can. Do it so you can meet your own eyes in the mirror. The other side of this is that if your son is ever going to learn to manage his affairs, this is the time he will learn that. Whatever he spent his money on, he did not spend it on the things that he is telling you matter to him now that his money is gone. Where did the money go, Copa? What will you be funding if you give him money, now? D H put money into daughter's account weekly when she was homeless. It wasn't much money...but we learned later that it was a very great deal of money to people who have spent their own money and have no aversion to beating those whose parents have been foolish enough to send more. That is what we learned, later. We would not put the money into her account until we had heard from her. It turned out that she was being beat until she made that call to us. And the money we sent was being taken from her. So, that relationship ended when the male was finally picked up for attempted vehicular homicide of our daughter that had happened some months earlier when our daughter still had money and a vehicle. Though the man had no license, of course, he was driving her vehicle. He had run that vehicle into a stone wall at high speed, claiming he was trying to kill them both. In any event, he was picked up some months later and taken to jail. That is the day she called and asked to come home. It was after that that the male who would beat and leave her for dead entered the picture again. We gave them money, too. Enough to make everything legal for the vehicle they somehow acquired and a little more. And you know how that ended. When we gave daughter nothing, when she knew we would give her nothing, she set her life up differently. She complains bitterly about this state of affairs to this day; she did that when she was here with us on her visit this summer. It has been very hard. That is why I work so hard on our FOO thread, Copa. Because all these things nearly killed me, too. What I have learned on the FOO thread is that the killing part of self recrimination and self blame and self hatred for having failed my children is come of messages hidden so deeply in the core of me that I took them to be true. They were lies, Copa. If we are ever going to help our kids, we need to know exactly why we are doing whatever it is we choose to do for them. For me, I need to hear the virulence in the self condemnation that attends every ever-more unbelievable episode in the saga of the family D H and I have created. I have to try really hard to separate what is valid from what I was taught was valid about me and about what I do. Sometimes, all I know is nothing at all. I know that in theory I believe enabling is paving the road to Hell with gold. Nice road, at the end of things. But it still leads to Hell. So, I don't enable. And that feels really bad. So, I just sit with those feelings. I get quiet. I play music. I think about doing yoga really hard, but just lately, I usually don't do it. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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