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<blockquote data-quote="Elsi" data-source="post: 740230" data-attributes="member: 23349"><p>Oh Copa. It is so hard to see those words. It IS a form of abuse, and manipulation, even if they think they mean it. My ex used to threaten suicide when I threatened to leave. Knowing my father committed suicide, and those words were a major, major emotional trigger. We danced that dance for years. When I finally left my youngest and I ended up in a DV shelter and then in a safe house for a few weeks while things blew over. He bombarded me with suicide threats through text and voicemail. I sent police over for wellness checks twice, which made him mad. </p><p></p><p>He never committed suicide. He found a way to carry on. And remarried Two months after the divorce was final. </p><p></p><p>With C, and with your son, we have no way of knowing whether they mean it or not. But my gut is that a threat for suicide at some time in distant future is more manipulation than not. I’m not saying the pain is not real, or that they don’t think they mean it on some level. And of course I can’t guarantee I’m right, for either of them. </p><p></p><p>But I also know what it feels like to battle crippling depression. I am my father’s daughter. One thing about being a child of a parent who commits suicide is it is always on your mind, as a tantalizing option, a way out. I have never taken that way out, even at my worst, because I also have children and I know what it would do to them. But I have had times when I spend each day just willing myself to get through the day, and not make any permanent decisions, by reminding myself that I still have the option tomorrow if things don’t get better. I don’t know if that makes sense to anyone who’s never been there. But I know when I am at my worst, the depression narrows my focus to now, maybe tomorrow at the longest, not three or four months from now. If I truly thought, at my worst, that I would have to feel that way another three or four months straight, I wouldn’t make it. The full blown depression is just too crushing. At those times it is my sense of duty and responsibility that saves me, more than an actual desire to live. So I keep putting one foot in front of the other until finally it starts to lift. </p><p></p><p>What I have come to with C and his suicide threats is the knowledge that I can’t control his feelings or his choices, anymore than others can control mine. And if he does one day take that way out, it will not be my fault. I don’t know, if it came to it, if I could hold onto that knowledge in the moment. But I know it now. </p><p></p><p>The other thing I have realized is that if he has options he chooses not to take, or opportunities he chooses to squander, that is also not on me. </p><p></p><p>Your son has $900 a month in SSI. That gives him options. It’s $900 a month more than C has right now. He could choose to find someplace to stay with that. He doesn't have to be outside in the cold weather. He is choosing to not take that option. </p><p></p><p>If it were me, i think I would make coming back to the apartment contingent on giving you some form of power of attorney control over the money. And tell him x amount will be coming out for rent, and you will be monitoring spending on the rest. And that he has to stay clean and sober there. It is an option. He can take that option instead of being cold, lonely and in despair. He could give you full control of the money and let you House him and feed him and ensure he has clothes, like a child. Or he can be a man and make his own choices, and live with them. </p><p></p><p>As you and SWOT reminded me last week, you’ve never heard of a child on this board freezing or starving to death, no matter how cold the winters get. You reminded me that they can go south, even go to another country where $900 a month would have him living like a king. If he’s capable enough to be given control over his own money he could make that choice, right? He has options, even if he chooses not to accept the conditions you would need to have him at your apartment again. </p><p></p><p>And he would be choosing. You are not rejecting him, he is choosing not to live within the conditions you have set. And they are not unreasonable conditions. Live like a human. Take care of yourself. Be sober. </p><p></p><p>C also does a lot of marijuana, and considers it medicinal. I hate it. Because I see it making him worse, not better. I’ll concede that the alcohol is a worse problem for him - it makes him violent and out of control. Marijuana does mellow him I guess. He’s thoughtful and philosophical rather than belligerent. But I hate spending money on weed instead of food and shelter, and I really think it’s made his mental health issues worse over time. His anxiety and paranoia cycle harder, and he’s less capable of caring about other things that are important in life. Getting more is all that matters. I’m pro legalization for practical and social justice reasons, but I do think this trend towards legalization has made our kids feel like it is no big deal. And with C, I absolutely think it is making his mental health issues worse with time, even if they make him feel better in the moment. </p><p></p><p>Stay strong. Remember he is choosing. He has options. He can accept your help, if he also has to accept your terms, in my opinion. That is not cruel. That is love.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elsi, post: 740230, member: 23349"] Oh Copa. It is so hard to see those words. It IS a form of abuse, and manipulation, even if they think they mean it. My ex used to threaten suicide when I threatened to leave. Knowing my father committed suicide, and those words were a major, major emotional trigger. We danced that dance for years. When I finally left my youngest and I ended up in a DV shelter and then in a safe house for a few weeks while things blew over. He bombarded me with suicide threats through text and voicemail. I sent police over for wellness checks twice, which made him mad. He never committed suicide. He found a way to carry on. And remarried Two months after the divorce was final. With C, and with your son, we have no way of knowing whether they mean it or not. But my gut is that a threat for suicide at some time in distant future is more manipulation than not. I’m not saying the pain is not real, or that they don’t think they mean it on some level. And of course I can’t guarantee I’m right, for either of them. But I also know what it feels like to battle crippling depression. I am my father’s daughter. One thing about being a child of a parent who commits suicide is it is always on your mind, as a tantalizing option, a way out. I have never taken that way out, even at my worst, because I also have children and I know what it would do to them. But I have had times when I spend each day just willing myself to get through the day, and not make any permanent decisions, by reminding myself that I still have the option tomorrow if things don’t get better. I don’t know if that makes sense to anyone who’s never been there. But I know when I am at my worst, the depression narrows my focus to now, maybe tomorrow at the longest, not three or four months from now. If I truly thought, at my worst, that I would have to feel that way another three or four months straight, I wouldn’t make it. The full blown depression is just too crushing. At those times it is my sense of duty and responsibility that saves me, more than an actual desire to live. So I keep putting one foot in front of the other until finally it starts to lift. What I have come to with C and his suicide threats is the knowledge that I can’t control his feelings or his choices, anymore than others can control mine. And if he does one day take that way out, it will not be my fault. I don’t know, if it came to it, if I could hold onto that knowledge in the moment. But I know it now. The other thing I have realized is that if he has options he chooses not to take, or opportunities he chooses to squander, that is also not on me. Your son has $900 a month in SSI. That gives him options. It’s $900 a month more than C has right now. He could choose to find someplace to stay with that. He doesn't have to be outside in the cold weather. He is choosing to not take that option. If it were me, i think I would make coming back to the apartment contingent on giving you some form of power of attorney control over the money. And tell him x amount will be coming out for rent, and you will be monitoring spending on the rest. And that he has to stay clean and sober there. It is an option. He can take that option instead of being cold, lonely and in despair. He could give you full control of the money and let you House him and feed him and ensure he has clothes, like a child. Or he can be a man and make his own choices, and live with them. As you and SWOT reminded me last week, you’ve never heard of a child on this board freezing or starving to death, no matter how cold the winters get. You reminded me that they can go south, even go to another country where $900 a month would have him living like a king. If he’s capable enough to be given control over his own money he could make that choice, right? He has options, even if he chooses not to accept the conditions you would need to have him at your apartment again. And he would be choosing. You are not rejecting him, he is choosing not to live within the conditions you have set. And they are not unreasonable conditions. Live like a human. Take care of yourself. Be sober. C also does a lot of marijuana, and considers it medicinal. I hate it. Because I see it making him worse, not better. I’ll concede that the alcohol is a worse problem for him - it makes him violent and out of control. Marijuana does mellow him I guess. He’s thoughtful and philosophical rather than belligerent. But I hate spending money on weed instead of food and shelter, and I really think it’s made his mental health issues worse over time. His anxiety and paranoia cycle harder, and he’s less capable of caring about other things that are important in life. Getting more is all that matters. I’m pro legalization for practical and social justice reasons, but I do think this trend towards legalization has made our kids feel like it is no big deal. And with C, I absolutely think it is making his mental health issues worse with time, even if they make him feel better in the moment. Stay strong. Remember he is choosing. He has options. He can accept your help, if he also has to accept your terms, in my opinion. That is not cruel. That is love. [/QUOTE]
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