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I need to be tied to the mast.
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<blockquote data-quote="Elsi" data-source="post: 740283" data-attributes="member: 23349"><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/biggrin.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":biggrin:" title="biggrin :biggrin:" data-shortname=":biggrin:" /> His name is Hamilton. Because we spent the money we were saving up to see the show when it came around next year at the vet instead. I guess we’ll wait for the ten year revival to see the show! But he’s a doll baby. He’s actually a lovely grey and white. And amazingly soft.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That’s what always works for me, too. Keep moving. Do stuff. Don’t think too hard.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This sounds right to me. Like you, I have no intention of cutting my son off entirely. I see my role in his life as a kind of mirroring: when he is trying, I step forward and do what I can to help. When he is angry and bitter and pushing away, I pull back. The hard part comes when he is both pulling me in and failing to help himself. Then I have to be strong, tie myself to the mast, and stand my ground. So yes, I would insist on him having some skin in the game as a condition of your physical and financial support. We can always give love and emotional support, to the best of our ability.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I understand. Truly. I have spent decades trying to tease out the difference between <em>can’t </em>and <em>won’t, </em>for both myself and others. Mental illness is real. And heartbreakingly, the illness impacts a person’s motivation and ability to seek out and comply with treatment. And yet, people with mental illness do find help and get better and live mostly normal lives all the time. What is the difference, between those who do and those who don’t? Is their illness less debilitating? Or is there still an element of choice, no matter how badly someone is impacted by these problems, that makes the difference between good outcomes and bad? I don’t have the answers.</p><p></p><p>I struggled with this in my marriage, too. My ex was abusive, often violently so. And a lot of that came from real mental illness. He had depression and anxiety at the least, and was quite probably bipolar. He had PTSD from his own childhood abuse and from experiences in the military and police force. So what was I supposed to do with that as a wife? For years, I told myself I wouldn’t leave him if he had cancer or diabetes, so why should mental illness be different? Didn’t I promise to stay and support in sickness and in health?</p><p></p><p>But living with someone with untreated mental illness is not like living with someone with diabetes. It is like living with someone with diabetes who not only refuses to get treatment and insists on eating cake at every meal, but also has you hooked up to their blood supply do whatever they do to themselves impacts you as well. I came to realize that I could not fix him and I could not stay with someone who refuses all possibility of treatment. His life is very sad, and I am sad for him, and for the kids who have no real relationship with him. But sacrificing myself would not have changed this outcome. And I am a human being with my own life and my own needs, not a tool solely for his use and benefit.</p><p></p><p>The equation really isn’t different with our kids. If feels different, because as mothers we take on complete and total responsibility for another’s life. But that responsibility isn’t meant to last forever. It can’t. They may need more help and support than most people at that age, and you and I have both been more than willing to give that, to meet them so much more than halfway and reward and reinforce every baby step they take for themselves. We will probably both continue to do that. Because we love them, and we want to see a better outcome if it is possible.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. He’s still thinking of consequences as coming from you, and not from life. He needs to learn that this is not a punishment but simply cause and effect. And the only way I know to help them learn that is to let them feel those consequences. To not soften the blows life gives them that result from their own choices. For me, it has been learning to offer love, and sympathy, and no judgement, without jumping into rescue mode. Oh I’m so sorry that happened. That sounds really hard. What do you think you’re going to do about that? But not: how can I help? What can I do for you?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That’s what I want, too. It’s a tightrope to walk, between maintaining the relationship and maintaining our sanity. Between providing love and appropriate support to help them get back on their feet without enabling. Because I do think there is a role for helping, sometimes. There are holes too deep to get out of by yourself, and saying ‘well you shouldn’t have gotten yourself i there then!” Serves no purpose. But, neither does trying to pull them out while they are still digging their hole deeper. I’m still struggling with all this myself, as you can see in my own threads. When I write to you I am really writing to myself, too. Because I also need tied to the mast.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Copa, this is beautiful. I love this image. And it is where I have come to also. Loving without expectation, but still holding out some form of hope. I don’t think love is ever wasted, or wrong. </p><p></p><p>I hope you are holding on to your peace today.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elsi, post: 740283, member: 23349"] :biggrin: His name is Hamilton. Because we spent the money we were saving up to see the show when it came around next year at the vet instead. I guess we’ll wait for the ten year revival to see the show! But he’s a doll baby. He’s actually a lovely grey and white. And amazingly soft. That’s what always works for me, too. Keep moving. Do stuff. Don’t think too hard. This sounds right to me. Like you, I have no intention of cutting my son off entirely. I see my role in his life as a kind of mirroring: when he is trying, I step forward and do what I can to help. When he is angry and bitter and pushing away, I pull back. The hard part comes when he is both pulling me in and failing to help himself. Then I have to be strong, tie myself to the mast, and stand my ground. So yes, I would insist on him having some skin in the game as a condition of your physical and financial support. We can always give love and emotional support, to the best of our ability. I understand. Truly. I have spent decades trying to tease out the difference between [I]can’t [/I]and [I]won’t, [/I]for both myself and others. Mental illness is real. And heartbreakingly, the illness impacts a person’s motivation and ability to seek out and comply with treatment. And yet, people with mental illness do find help and get better and live mostly normal lives all the time. What is the difference, between those who do and those who don’t? Is their illness less debilitating? Or is there still an element of choice, no matter how badly someone is impacted by these problems, that makes the difference between good outcomes and bad? I don’t have the answers. I struggled with this in my marriage, too. My ex was abusive, often violently so. And a lot of that came from real mental illness. He had depression and anxiety at the least, and was quite probably bipolar. He had PTSD from his own childhood abuse and from experiences in the military and police force. So what was I supposed to do with that as a wife? For years, I told myself I wouldn’t leave him if he had cancer or diabetes, so why should mental illness be different? Didn’t I promise to stay and support in sickness and in health? But living with someone with untreated mental illness is not like living with someone with diabetes. It is like living with someone with diabetes who not only refuses to get treatment and insists on eating cake at every meal, but also has you hooked up to their blood supply do whatever they do to themselves impacts you as well. I came to realize that I could not fix him and I could not stay with someone who refuses all possibility of treatment. His life is very sad, and I am sad for him, and for the kids who have no real relationship with him. But sacrificing myself would not have changed this outcome. And I am a human being with my own life and my own needs, not a tool solely for his use and benefit. The equation really isn’t different with our kids. If feels different, because as mothers we take on complete and total responsibility for another’s life. But that responsibility isn’t meant to last forever. It can’t. They may need more help and support than most people at that age, and you and I have both been more than willing to give that, to meet them so much more than halfway and reward and reinforce every baby step they take for themselves. We will probably both continue to do that. Because we love them, and we want to see a better outcome if it is possible. Yes. He’s still thinking of consequences as coming from you, and not from life. He needs to learn that this is not a punishment but simply cause and effect. And the only way I know to help them learn that is to let them feel those consequences. To not soften the blows life gives them that result from their own choices. For me, it has been learning to offer love, and sympathy, and no judgement, without jumping into rescue mode. Oh I’m so sorry that happened. That sounds really hard. What do you think you’re going to do about that? But not: how can I help? What can I do for you? That’s what I want, too. It’s a tightrope to walk, between maintaining the relationship and maintaining our sanity. Between providing love and appropriate support to help them get back on their feet without enabling. Because I do think there is a role for helping, sometimes. There are holes too deep to get out of by yourself, and saying ‘well you shouldn’t have gotten yourself i there then!” Serves no purpose. But, neither does trying to pull them out while they are still digging their hole deeper. I’m still struggling with all this myself, as you can see in my own threads. When I write to you I am really writing to myself, too. Because I also need tied to the mast. Copa, this is beautiful. I love this image. And it is where I have come to also. Loving without expectation, but still holding out some form of hope. I don’t think love is ever wasted, or wrong. I hope you are holding on to your peace today. [/QUOTE]
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