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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 184614" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I'm with MWM. I'd at least be considering Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) as a working hypothesis, at least for this.</p><p></p><p>We've had similar problems, even with easy child. We now realise, her problems come from her prenatal malnutrition (and she now has a big weight/health problem because of it). She would sneak food, especially rubbish. difficult child 1 would steal food when on risperdal, but by then I was careful about what was in the house. However, I would find empty containers everywhere.</p><p>difficult child 3 is always hungry despite no longer being on risperdal. He leaves empty containers everywhere. I know when he's been the culprit because he NEVER covers his tracks. difficult child 1 - much the same. The house is constantly getting buried under his empty containers and packets.</p><p></p><p>So what to do?</p><p></p><p>From our own experience - because we've been through this too, x 3 (or more):</p><p></p><p>1) Ban ALL shop-bought snacks. This includes for you, too. No more Reece's Pieces hidden in your desk. NADA. Zilch. The entire family is going on a health drive/budget drive.</p><p></p><p>2) Stock up on healthy food. Cook your own meals, snacks etc. Get the kids involved in cooking. For the first week, do not bake cookies, cakes or other sugar-laden, fat-laden recipes. This will be difficult for all of you, but there are VERY strong reasons for this. I will get to it later.</p><p>After a week you can buy ingredients to make biscuits and cakes and other sweet desserts, but if this privilege is abused by anyone, the ingredients must leave the house. Pack the ingredients into a box and leave them with someone you trust will keep them safe.</p><p></p><p>3) Keep your fridge full of ready-to-eat meal fragments. The kids may freely snack on these whenever they're hungry. Examples include - cooked chicken (cut into pieces); cooked sausages; boiled eggs; carrot sticks, celery sticks, other vegetable crudites; tomatoes, lettuce, cucumber, other salad vegetables. Bread - preferably wholegrain, not white. </p><p></p><p>4) Optional - have food in fridge in labelled container, labelled with day and/or name of child. Problem with this one - finding out who ate the wrong food or at the wrong time. This one could work, or it could teach your kid(s) to lie about it.</p><p></p><p>5) Final rule - any cheating re-sets the clock back to the beginning of the week. The clock re-sets for everybody, even if only one child cheats.</p><p></p><p>The reason you have to be this drastic - your kid has got into the habit of eating and helping herself, and also helping herself to the wrong sort of food (high salt, high sugar, high fat). This food can be addictive; the habits she's got into are definitely addictive. You need to break the habit which requires a period of withdrawal. Unfortunately, this affects EVERYBODY. No exceptions. because if you make an exception, first it looks unfair and second, it provides an opportunity to cheat. And ANY cheating undermines this program.</p><p></p><p>The reason you need the first week to be free of luxury foods is first, to get the family into healthier eating habits and most important - because the ingredients for the 'treat' foods are able to be raided and gorged on in the absence of shop-bought treats. For example, a box of raisins can be raided (although a few raisins are actually a good snack option). Even more likely to be raided - pure sugar; dessicated coconut; chocolate in any form including choc bits and choc melts; nuts (again, a few are good for a snack); those little silvered sugar ball things to go on cakes and other cake decorations; jelly crystals.</p><p></p><p>So once you are sure the kids can be trusted to not raid the ingredients, you can introduce more treat options as ingredients. A good way to begin this introduction is to buy the ingredient and use it immediately. For example, you buy a packet of choc bits and as soon as you get home, you make choc chip cookies. </p><p></p><p>So, to re-cap - </p><p></p><p>First clean out your house. Tell the kids the new rules and also tell them that this is necessary because you can't afford the health problem or the money problems, from them eating treat foods so much and then wasting good food. The rule applies to everybody because it's easier. Sorry, kids but Mum is making sacrifices too. No snacks for Mum either, so if you catch Mum out then feel free to blow the whistle on her.</p><p></p><p>You don't have to throw away what you are cleaning out. You could do it by having one last party, or alternatively package up non-perishables and remove them temporarily until you can re-introduce them.</p><p></p><p>Next - get cooking/preparing healthy food. Make sure you keep tabs on supplies, get the kids to let you know when you need to re-stock. </p><p>What to cook - boil some eggs (if they eat boiled eggs). I boil 4 eggs at a time and teach the kids my special technique for getting eggs just right - my mother taught me.</p><p>Grill some sausages. Roast a chicken or two (on a different day to the sausages). Cut up the carrots into sticks, also cut some celery sticks. To make the curls at the end of the celery (optional, but it can encourage kids to enjoy eating) you make vertical slits in the end of the celery stick and then put the sticks in iced water for about half an hour. The kids might enjoy watching this, it can be fun. Then dry the celery sticks on paper towel and keep in a sealed plastic container in the fridge.</p><p></p><p>If you want some dessert options, then freeze some fruit. Peel a banana, cut it in half and push a stick into the cut end. Place the two bananas on sticks onto a tray and freeze them. Cut oranges into wedges and freeze them. Freeze grapes. Freeze watermelon wedges. Freeze pineapple wedges. Freeze kiwifruit, strawberries.</p><p></p><p>For dessert - the kids can either have fresh fruit salad, or fresh fruit of their choice, or frozen fruit (eaten/sucked while frozen). Another fun option is to put frozen fruit into a blender and puree it. Eat with spoon or freeze again into home-made ice treats.</p><p></p><p>This works.</p><p></p><p>Once the kids realise they aren't going to be left to starve, they will settle. Or should. But by teaching them to help cook, they are working towards the next food intake, working towards keeping the fridge re-stocked and learning to fend for themselves. And 8 is not too young - I was helping my mother make scones before I was school-aged. I would be given some scone dough to mould into my own miniature 'loaf' and bake with everything else.</p><p></p><p>I just realised, I didn't mention drinks. OK, that goes without saying. No soda. It can be something you reward with, once they show they can be trusted. Instead, keep plenty of milk and there is always water. You can also buy cordial concentrate (if they can be trusted to not drink it 'neat') and make up a jug of that to keep chilled in the fridge. Keep plenty of ice blocks in the freezer, I have lots of novelty ice block moulds for fun shapes. You can also freeze juice in these to add to a drink for a treat. Again - it needs to be earned.</p><p></p><p>You need to be consistent, you need to be strong. Ignore any tantrums from anybody. What can they do, if you have removed all temptation? </p><p></p><p>How can a kid do the wrong thing, if there is nothing in the house to eat, except what you WANT them to eat?</p><p></p><p>We also re-use leftovers. Any uneaten chicken - I have a lot of recipes that use it, very tasty recipes that the kids love. And they're quick. It's not just sandwiches - leftover chicken can be chicken supreme, chicken vol-au-vents, chicken pot pies, chicken risotto, chicken and corn soup. And more. If you have a sandwich toaster, turn the leftovers into a pie filling and use pastry sheets instead of bread, in the sandwich toaster. Again, you can leave these cooked in the fridge.</p><p></p><p>This works. But it needs your commitment and willpower to follow-through, or the problems you have will continue.</p><p></p><p>Good luck. If you need any recipes, let me know.</p><p></p><p>And if THIS doesn't work, or she fails to make enough progress - get her a packet of seeds and teach her how to grow her own food. She can plant tomatoes and eat whatever she can grow.</p><p></p><p>Eventually she should value food much more and not take it (and you) so much for granted. This is also a valuable lesson for well-behaved PCs. </p><p></p><p>You are not punishing anyone with this. This is a lifestyle change, not punishment.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 184614, member: 1991"] I'm with MWM. I'd at least be considering Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) as a working hypothesis, at least for this. We've had similar problems, even with easy child. We now realise, her problems come from her prenatal malnutrition (and she now has a big weight/health problem because of it). She would sneak food, especially rubbish. difficult child 1 would steal food when on risperdal, but by then I was careful about what was in the house. However, I would find empty containers everywhere. difficult child 3 is always hungry despite no longer being on risperdal. He leaves empty containers everywhere. I know when he's been the culprit because he NEVER covers his tracks. difficult child 1 - much the same. The house is constantly getting buried under his empty containers and packets. So what to do? From our own experience - because we've been through this too, x 3 (or more): 1) Ban ALL shop-bought snacks. This includes for you, too. No more Reece's Pieces hidden in your desk. NADA. Zilch. The entire family is going on a health drive/budget drive. 2) Stock up on healthy food. Cook your own meals, snacks etc. Get the kids involved in cooking. For the first week, do not bake cookies, cakes or other sugar-laden, fat-laden recipes. This will be difficult for all of you, but there are VERY strong reasons for this. I will get to it later. After a week you can buy ingredients to make biscuits and cakes and other sweet desserts, but if this privilege is abused by anyone, the ingredients must leave the house. Pack the ingredients into a box and leave them with someone you trust will keep them safe. 3) Keep your fridge full of ready-to-eat meal fragments. The kids may freely snack on these whenever they're hungry. Examples include - cooked chicken (cut into pieces); cooked sausages; boiled eggs; carrot sticks, celery sticks, other vegetable crudites; tomatoes, lettuce, cucumber, other salad vegetables. Bread - preferably wholegrain, not white. 4) Optional - have food in fridge in labelled container, labelled with day and/or name of child. Problem with this one - finding out who ate the wrong food or at the wrong time. This one could work, or it could teach your kid(s) to lie about it. 5) Final rule - any cheating re-sets the clock back to the beginning of the week. The clock re-sets for everybody, even if only one child cheats. The reason you have to be this drastic - your kid has got into the habit of eating and helping herself, and also helping herself to the wrong sort of food (high salt, high sugar, high fat). This food can be addictive; the habits she's got into are definitely addictive. You need to break the habit which requires a period of withdrawal. Unfortunately, this affects EVERYBODY. No exceptions. because if you make an exception, first it looks unfair and second, it provides an opportunity to cheat. And ANY cheating undermines this program. The reason you need the first week to be free of luxury foods is first, to get the family into healthier eating habits and most important - because the ingredients for the 'treat' foods are able to be raided and gorged on in the absence of shop-bought treats. For example, a box of raisins can be raided (although a few raisins are actually a good snack option). Even more likely to be raided - pure sugar; dessicated coconut; chocolate in any form including choc bits and choc melts; nuts (again, a few are good for a snack); those little silvered sugar ball things to go on cakes and other cake decorations; jelly crystals. So once you are sure the kids can be trusted to not raid the ingredients, you can introduce more treat options as ingredients. A good way to begin this introduction is to buy the ingredient and use it immediately. For example, you buy a packet of choc bits and as soon as you get home, you make choc chip cookies. So, to re-cap - First clean out your house. Tell the kids the new rules and also tell them that this is necessary because you can't afford the health problem or the money problems, from them eating treat foods so much and then wasting good food. The rule applies to everybody because it's easier. Sorry, kids but Mum is making sacrifices too. No snacks for Mum either, so if you catch Mum out then feel free to blow the whistle on her. You don't have to throw away what you are cleaning out. You could do it by having one last party, or alternatively package up non-perishables and remove them temporarily until you can re-introduce them. Next - get cooking/preparing healthy food. Make sure you keep tabs on supplies, get the kids to let you know when you need to re-stock. What to cook - boil some eggs (if they eat boiled eggs). I boil 4 eggs at a time and teach the kids my special technique for getting eggs just right - my mother taught me. Grill some sausages. Roast a chicken or two (on a different day to the sausages). Cut up the carrots into sticks, also cut some celery sticks. To make the curls at the end of the celery (optional, but it can encourage kids to enjoy eating) you make vertical slits in the end of the celery stick and then put the sticks in iced water for about half an hour. The kids might enjoy watching this, it can be fun. Then dry the celery sticks on paper towel and keep in a sealed plastic container in the fridge. If you want some dessert options, then freeze some fruit. Peel a banana, cut it in half and push a stick into the cut end. Place the two bananas on sticks onto a tray and freeze them. Cut oranges into wedges and freeze them. Freeze grapes. Freeze watermelon wedges. Freeze pineapple wedges. Freeze kiwifruit, strawberries. For dessert - the kids can either have fresh fruit salad, or fresh fruit of their choice, or frozen fruit (eaten/sucked while frozen). Another fun option is to put frozen fruit into a blender and puree it. Eat with spoon or freeze again into home-made ice treats. This works. Once the kids realise they aren't going to be left to starve, they will settle. Or should. But by teaching them to help cook, they are working towards the next food intake, working towards keeping the fridge re-stocked and learning to fend for themselves. And 8 is not too young - I was helping my mother make scones before I was school-aged. I would be given some scone dough to mould into my own miniature 'loaf' and bake with everything else. I just realised, I didn't mention drinks. OK, that goes without saying. No soda. It can be something you reward with, once they show they can be trusted. Instead, keep plenty of milk and there is always water. You can also buy cordial concentrate (if they can be trusted to not drink it 'neat') and make up a jug of that to keep chilled in the fridge. Keep plenty of ice blocks in the freezer, I have lots of novelty ice block moulds for fun shapes. You can also freeze juice in these to add to a drink for a treat. Again - it needs to be earned. You need to be consistent, you need to be strong. Ignore any tantrums from anybody. What can they do, if you have removed all temptation? How can a kid do the wrong thing, if there is nothing in the house to eat, except what you WANT them to eat? We also re-use leftovers. Any uneaten chicken - I have a lot of recipes that use it, very tasty recipes that the kids love. And they're quick. It's not just sandwiches - leftover chicken can be chicken supreme, chicken vol-au-vents, chicken pot pies, chicken risotto, chicken and corn soup. And more. If you have a sandwich toaster, turn the leftovers into a pie filling and use pastry sheets instead of bread, in the sandwich toaster. Again, you can leave these cooked in the fridge. This works. But it needs your commitment and willpower to follow-through, or the problems you have will continue. Good luck. If you need any recipes, let me know. And if THIS doesn't work, or she fails to make enough progress - get her a packet of seeds and teach her how to grow her own food. She can plant tomatoes and eat whatever she can grow. Eventually she should value food much more and not take it (and you) so much for granted. This is also a valuable lesson for well-behaved PCs. You are not punishing anyone with this. This is a lifestyle change, not punishment. Marg [/QUOTE]
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