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Infection/Boil Help Needed - May be a little gross
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 425629" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Hound dog is right, she got in ahead of me! I heartily endorse the hot water and Epsom salts. I got this from a microbiologist who explained the science behind it.</p><p></p><p>Basically, what you describe is a staph infection. There is no way to know without detailed testing if it is a resistant staph or MRSA, but it IS staph. The problem with staph infections in toes and fingers, is the blood supply to those areas is tiny. When blood gets out to capillaries, the red cells have to line up and go through single-file. When there is tissue swelling, the capillaries are very leaky and the whole area is congested. Trying to use the circulatory system to get antibiotics to the infection, is even more difficult. The body is doing its darndest to fight the infection, by getting as many defence cells there as it can. But staph can be nasty.</p><p></p><p>Now to the next part of the lesson - staph is not always nasty. We ALL carry staph in some form. Staph causes pimples, folliculitis etc. You barely notice it most of the time. That is because most of the time, staph grows WITH oxygen. Aerobic. It stays out on the skin where it can get as much oxygen as it wants. Therefore it stays fairly harmless, as far as we individually are concerned.</p><p></p><p>BUT - sometimes staph gets into the tissues. A thorn from a rose, or a splinter. I would suspect with the edge of the toenail, that a skin tag tore. The break can be almost microscopic, but that is where the infection starts. And when the staph finds itself deep in the tissues where the oxygen supply is a lot lower, it changes tactics. it begins to grow WITHOUT oxygen. Anerobic. And this is where it can get nasty.</p><p></p><p>You all know the 'joy' of popping a pimple. Staph can build up quite a head of pus, but with a pimple, the pressure is released long before it becomes really painful. When you get a deeper tissue boil, the pressure can be exquisitely painful. It's almost diagnostic for staph - pain, intensely localised, with apparently not enough reason for that level of pain. If he complains about this pain, he is not being a wimp. And then the pus - the relief from the reduction in pressure is almost mystical.</p><p></p><p>if the infection source is not removed, the body will continue to fight. It might win, but a bit of help is a good idea. Because staph has friends and you do NOT want them invited to the party.</p><p></p><p>Do you have a cold or sore throat? Does he? Make sure all hands are washed before touching this boil, and try to not breathe on it. because anerobic staph's good buddy (and your worst nightmare if they join up) is Strep B. This is the bug that lives in our respiratory system and causes sore throats. It is used to less oxygen - we breathe in air (20% oxygen) and immediately it gets into our lungs, our body takes out what it can easily get. We breathe out about 5% oxygen (partial pressure). So strep B can manage on much lower oxygen as a rule. it also can go fully anaerobic if circumstances arise.</p><p></p><p>Now, if strep B joins the party, you get a nasty two-fold effect. The strep works on the edge of the infection, deep in the tissues. It separates the skin from the flesh underneath, at the margin. Strep B infections in boils look soggy. it is not as painful as staph, but with staph as well, it hurts a lot. Now, once strep has loosened the skin away a little, staph moves in and builds up pus there. This is like driving a wedge into a log you're trying to split. Something's gotta give, and it's your foot. As the staph moves in, the strep burrows in deeper, and so it continues. the result looks a lot like flesh-eating bugs. I know - I've had this, so has easy child. We fought it according to our pathologist's instructions.</p><p></p><p>easy child was put on oral antibiotics. In her case, the infection was on a finger. Again, extremities. getting antibiotics to the site via the bloodstream was not enough, so we used the hot water and Epsom salts.</p><p></p><p>Now for tha added bit of advice that makes the difference - DO THIS EVERY THREE HOURS. You need to do this at least three times a day, three hours interval, on three consecutive days. If you haven't got Epsom salts, use table salt. or no salt. The heat is the thing. The salt, if you use it, will work to draw excess fluid out of the tissues which will allow any antibiotics to get through a little more easily The heat - ditto. But the real magic in this, the most effective way it works - staph hates heat.</p><p></p><p>STAPH HATES HEAT. it interferes with cell division. All bacteria have to divide. They continue to grow bigger and a cell that gets too big finally cannot function because it takes too long for various =nutrients etc to get to where they have to go. So the cell divides at a certain point. With staph, it divides about every 4 hours. Heat interferes with this. if you expose staph to heat, if it's hot enough, it stops the cell division in its tracks and the cell has to start the process over. This takes time. And you do it again, and interrupt it again. Do it again, and the cells are finally too big to function and cannot survive. </p><p>Now this is a bit hit and miss. There is a limit to how much heat you can stand, especially in a toe that is so painful. The trick is, to put your foot (or other affected appendage) into water as hot as you can stand it. As your skin adapts, increase the heat (ie pour in more water from the kettle). </p><p></p><p>easy child's infection cleared up in a couple of days with this treatment plus antibiotics. My last two-pronged infection (staph plus strep) was eating into my hand badly and I could not be give antibiotics. Another hallmark of this sort of infection is that it makes you feel sick - that is the poison from the staph getting into your body systemically. Nasty. An indication that, if possible, antibiotics are needed.</p><p></p><p>I treated mine (under a specialist's supervision) with just the hot water. It took about four days before I saw improvement, after a week I stopped feeling feverish. I remember this was during my mother's funeral, so I remember the time well. I was using a coffee mug in the motel, and the kettle, to heat the water and soak my hand. I walked around talking to people with my hand stuffed into a mug of hot water. hey, I'm the family eccentric, I could hear people thinking...</p><p></p><p>Another important point - if a doctor wants to sample the pus and get it tested, INSIST on the sample being grown anaerobically as well as aerobically. The anaerobic plates will tend to grow smaller colonies for the same severity of infection, and this can also be misread by an inexperienced technician. Ask for the senior pathologist to review the case.</p><p></p><p>Staph is nasty. I had a recurring staph infection in one big toe. Thankfully apart from the first infection, it stayed as staph only. But I finally had a wedge resection on that toe, to reduce the incidence of recurrence. Sometimes the shape of the nail and the toe can predispose you to repeat infections. it is possible for there to be residual infection in the tissues, but staph is so common, reinfection is much more likely, in a really confined spot.</p><p></p><p>Now go and take that test in microbiology!</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 425629, member: 1991"] Hound dog is right, she got in ahead of me! I heartily endorse the hot water and Epsom salts. I got this from a microbiologist who explained the science behind it. Basically, what you describe is a staph infection. There is no way to know without detailed testing if it is a resistant staph or MRSA, but it IS staph. The problem with staph infections in toes and fingers, is the blood supply to those areas is tiny. When blood gets out to capillaries, the red cells have to line up and go through single-file. When there is tissue swelling, the capillaries are very leaky and the whole area is congested. Trying to use the circulatory system to get antibiotics to the infection, is even more difficult. The body is doing its darndest to fight the infection, by getting as many defence cells there as it can. But staph can be nasty. Now to the next part of the lesson - staph is not always nasty. We ALL carry staph in some form. Staph causes pimples, folliculitis etc. You barely notice it most of the time. That is because most of the time, staph grows WITH oxygen. Aerobic. It stays out on the skin where it can get as much oxygen as it wants. Therefore it stays fairly harmless, as far as we individually are concerned. BUT - sometimes staph gets into the tissues. A thorn from a rose, or a splinter. I would suspect with the edge of the toenail, that a skin tag tore. The break can be almost microscopic, but that is where the infection starts. And when the staph finds itself deep in the tissues where the oxygen supply is a lot lower, it changes tactics. it begins to grow WITHOUT oxygen. Anerobic. And this is where it can get nasty. You all know the 'joy' of popping a pimple. Staph can build up quite a head of pus, but with a pimple, the pressure is released long before it becomes really painful. When you get a deeper tissue boil, the pressure can be exquisitely painful. It's almost diagnostic for staph - pain, intensely localised, with apparently not enough reason for that level of pain. If he complains about this pain, he is not being a wimp. And then the pus - the relief from the reduction in pressure is almost mystical. if the infection source is not removed, the body will continue to fight. It might win, but a bit of help is a good idea. Because staph has friends and you do NOT want them invited to the party. Do you have a cold or sore throat? Does he? Make sure all hands are washed before touching this boil, and try to not breathe on it. because anerobic staph's good buddy (and your worst nightmare if they join up) is Strep B. This is the bug that lives in our respiratory system and causes sore throats. It is used to less oxygen - we breathe in air (20% oxygen) and immediately it gets into our lungs, our body takes out what it can easily get. We breathe out about 5% oxygen (partial pressure). So strep B can manage on much lower oxygen as a rule. it also can go fully anaerobic if circumstances arise. Now, if strep B joins the party, you get a nasty two-fold effect. The strep works on the edge of the infection, deep in the tissues. It separates the skin from the flesh underneath, at the margin. Strep B infections in boils look soggy. it is not as painful as staph, but with staph as well, it hurts a lot. Now, once strep has loosened the skin away a little, staph moves in and builds up pus there. This is like driving a wedge into a log you're trying to split. Something's gotta give, and it's your foot. As the staph moves in, the strep burrows in deeper, and so it continues. the result looks a lot like flesh-eating bugs. I know - I've had this, so has easy child. We fought it according to our pathologist's instructions. easy child was put on oral antibiotics. In her case, the infection was on a finger. Again, extremities. getting antibiotics to the site via the bloodstream was not enough, so we used the hot water and Epsom salts. Now for tha added bit of advice that makes the difference - DO THIS EVERY THREE HOURS. You need to do this at least three times a day, three hours interval, on three consecutive days. If you haven't got Epsom salts, use table salt. or no salt. The heat is the thing. The salt, if you use it, will work to draw excess fluid out of the tissues which will allow any antibiotics to get through a little more easily The heat - ditto. But the real magic in this, the most effective way it works - staph hates heat. STAPH HATES HEAT. it interferes with cell division. All bacteria have to divide. They continue to grow bigger and a cell that gets too big finally cannot function because it takes too long for various =nutrients etc to get to where they have to go. So the cell divides at a certain point. With staph, it divides about every 4 hours. Heat interferes with this. if you expose staph to heat, if it's hot enough, it stops the cell division in its tracks and the cell has to start the process over. This takes time. And you do it again, and interrupt it again. Do it again, and the cells are finally too big to function and cannot survive. Now this is a bit hit and miss. There is a limit to how much heat you can stand, especially in a toe that is so painful. The trick is, to put your foot (or other affected appendage) into water as hot as you can stand it. As your skin adapts, increase the heat (ie pour in more water from the kettle). easy child's infection cleared up in a couple of days with this treatment plus antibiotics. My last two-pronged infection (staph plus strep) was eating into my hand badly and I could not be give antibiotics. Another hallmark of this sort of infection is that it makes you feel sick - that is the poison from the staph getting into your body systemically. Nasty. An indication that, if possible, antibiotics are needed. I treated mine (under a specialist's supervision) with just the hot water. It took about four days before I saw improvement, after a week I stopped feeling feverish. I remember this was during my mother's funeral, so I remember the time well. I was using a coffee mug in the motel, and the kettle, to heat the water and soak my hand. I walked around talking to people with my hand stuffed into a mug of hot water. hey, I'm the family eccentric, I could hear people thinking... Another important point - if a doctor wants to sample the pus and get it tested, INSIST on the sample being grown anaerobically as well as aerobically. The anaerobic plates will tend to grow smaller colonies for the same severity of infection, and this can also be misread by an inexperienced technician. Ask for the senior pathologist to review the case. Staph is nasty. I had a recurring staph infection in one big toe. Thankfully apart from the first infection, it stayed as staph only. But I finally had a wedge resection on that toe, to reduce the incidence of recurrence. Sometimes the shape of the nail and the toe can predispose you to repeat infections. it is possible for there to be residual infection in the tissues, but staph is so common, reinfection is much more likely, in a really confined spot. Now go and take that test in microbiology! Marg [/QUOTE]
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