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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 180081" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>G'day and welcome. I'm coming in late to this, it's my first computer access for a week.</p><p></p><p>I also was thinking along the high-functioning autism line. Even if she's borderline or scoring "no", I'd keep an open mind. As easy child 2/difficult child 2 has grown, she has fitted more and more into the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) category.</p><p></p><p>The "very friendly" kid - that's easy child 2/difficult child 2 and difficult child 3. As toddlers they would have happily gone home with a total stranger. They didn't seem to discriminate between strangers and family - everybody was there to play with and talk to.</p><p></p><p>Language delay - it's the history of language delay that is the hallmark, even if language is later on within the normal range. A really detailed speech assessment can still fall within normal levels but you can discern splinter skills in speech areas as well as in other psychometric test results, and these splinter findings point directly to problems these kids are having in brain development and general ability coping. They also can point to areas which these kids find very frustrating. difficult child 3 has scored in the normal range for speech for years now, often in the superior range.But he has splinter areas of lower achievement, where he still needs help. He is very literal, appears to have no understanding of subtlety and still has to work hard to identify with someone else's point of view. He can seem perfectly normal, but when you really know him and work with him, and especially if he is tested, he scored moderate on the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) scale.</p><p></p><p>easy child 2/difficult child 2 at age 6 was believed to be a normal but very bright child. Problems didn't really begin to be obvious for a few more years. Yet when we look back, we can see the early signs.</p><p></p><p>You and your husband have the beginning of some big problems. I do wonder if the ODD presentation is possibly almost entirely due to the different ways of managing this child. You both need to be on the same page, it is vital. If she is a very bright child, and especially if there is something possibly wrong along the lines of ADHD, Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) or something else, then any problems such as different handling methods will greatly amplify the difficulties you are having.</p><p></p><p>You say your husband is probably being the strict disciplinarian. This is a valid parenting style and many of us can say, "It worked with me, my parents were strict and I turned out fine." (although that is really no recommendation - "my parents used to whip us with an old belt, and I turned out fine" is no guarantee for any method),</p><p></p><p>But strict, old-fashioned parenting is almost the opposite of what some kids need. I gave a list - bright kids; kids with ADHD or other difficulties. For various reasons, they do worse with strict controlling type of handling. </p><p></p><p>That doesn't mean you go the other way entirely towards overly loose, unstructured, unchaperoned anarchy. There is a better way. A MUCH better way.</p><p></p><p>You will find it in "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. If you go to the Early Childhood forum you will find a locked thread at the top of the page, dealing with adapting this book for younger children. It's a method which works amazingly for so many of us. It is also logical.</p><p></p><p>At first it can seem counter-intuitive, but it actually short-circuits a lot of the problems and can get you faster to the ultimate goal of the parent - independent self-discipline in the child.</p><p></p><p>Your husband sounds tired and frustrated, and also perhaps afraid inside that he is just no good at this parenting caper. He has a difficult child and is struggling with her. He can feel himself losing the battle - and he is right. Soon he will lose the war. She is getting older, smarter, more cunning and learning to be determined as well as sneaky. She sounds very frustrated and already in the bad habit of arguing and using every trick in the book to get her own way. I like your method of the spot on the forehead, but that will soon stop working. The first time she tells the truth and you call her a liar, she will see through the story.</p><p></p><p>You need to get your husband to go to this website. He won't be the only bloke, by any means. And from my own experience, this can only help your relationship and your communication. My husband began lurking here very early on after I found this site, and would read what I was posting. Along the way he would get a better understanding of my vies on certain things, even though we both thought we were already communicating perfectly well. We found we were understanding one another even better. </p><p>Then he began posting in his own right - he is "Marg's Man". He doesn't post often but he reads every day. </p><p></p><p>Another thing that helped - I summarised the book and also talked it over with him. This helped me understand it even better, too.</p><p></p><p>Early problems - you need to avoid the good cop, bad cop scenario but if one of you changes to Explosive Child methods and the other does not, then the stricter parent can find even greater resistance and will see the situation as getting worse, when it in reality is not.</p><p></p><p>For this to work, you both need to sit down (away from the child) and decide on your methods, your tactics and what behaviours go into what 'basket'. You both must agree. It would also help to keep a diary on her behaviour, listing good things as well as bad.</p><p></p><p>Your daughter could well be bored, from not being out of the house enough. I understand his concerns and fear that he will not be in sufficient control - he needs to find a compromise. Keeping her away from larger numbers of other people and kids is a good option. One other playmate only at a time is a good rule - for now. Go somewhere, but always have an escape plan. For example, if you go to the mall (and many would not, so don't be hard on him if he says it just doesn't work) then be prepared to immediately walk out and go home if she isn't able to behave.</p><p></p><p>If there is ANY chance she is Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) in any way, then shouting at her is achieving exactly zilch. If anything, it could be making her worse. Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids model their behaviour toward others on how they themselves are treated. I can look back and see a great example from easy child 2/difficult child 2, when she was 3.</p><p>I was busy talking on the telephone and kept having to say to her, "Be quiet, don't interrupt, I'm on the phone!"</p><p>She asked me for a glass of juice. I was distracted and poured milk. Her response - she pounded her tiny fist on the bench and said, "I said I wanted juice!"</p><p>The fist pounding - husband used to do it when he wanted quiet and the attention of the other kids. The tone of voice - it was exactly the tone of someone chastising a naughty child. She had picked it up as used on her,and was now using it herself because we had clearly shown her that this was the appropriate way to communicate. This is a common finding in high-functioning autism, although I know others will chime in and say it is found in other conditions too. But I know autism, and I see this often in not only my Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids, but in their classmates and friends with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD).</p><p></p><p>Even if your daughter has nothing wrong with her other than a high IQ, reading the book and following the guidelines can only help. You read the book, adapt what you want, and make sure that ALL those dealing with her are consistently using the same methods.</p><p></p><p>Your giving her time to change tasks - that is very important. It is also showing her respect. Once you show respect to her, she will use that as a model and will begin to use it on you.You may need to remind her to speak politely, but again, you need to use your judgement. When the time is right, that will be a Basket B behaviour.</p><p></p><p>Don't overload the baskets. The hardest thing for your husband will be letting go of behaviour problems that are not currently on the agenda (Basket C - leave these issues for now).</p><p>It's also important to keep in mind what your long-term goals are, and to make sure they are goals for HER and not for you. For example, a parent whose task it is to mind the child and keep her occupied - cannot ignore the child and sit and watch daytime soaps on TV. If the child then tugs at your sleeve and asks to to come and play, or otherwise tries your patience, you have to stop and think - am I only wanting the child to play quietly, so I can enjoy my soapie in peace? How am I helping the child by doing this?</p><p></p><p>But if you work with the child, work as a team, play together almost to a schedule, then you will get more out of the interaction as well as teach the child a great deal about teamwork, about cooperative play, about community. </p><p></p><p>Trying to imagine how it all seems from the child's point of view is a worthwhile exercise. She's not being naughty just to make your life a misery. She's got good reasons for everything she does - good reasons for HER. Finding out what those are and trying to find other ways to meet her needs, can turn around some big problems.</p><p></p><p>I hope this helps.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 180081, member: 1991"] G'day and welcome. I'm coming in late to this, it's my first computer access for a week. I also was thinking along the high-functioning autism line. Even if she's borderline or scoring "no", I'd keep an open mind. As easy child 2/difficult child 2 has grown, she has fitted more and more into the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) category. The "very friendly" kid - that's easy child 2/difficult child 2 and difficult child 3. As toddlers they would have happily gone home with a total stranger. They didn't seem to discriminate between strangers and family - everybody was there to play with and talk to. Language delay - it's the history of language delay that is the hallmark, even if language is later on within the normal range. A really detailed speech assessment can still fall within normal levels but you can discern splinter skills in speech areas as well as in other psychometric test results, and these splinter findings point directly to problems these kids are having in brain development and general ability coping. They also can point to areas which these kids find very frustrating. difficult child 3 has scored in the normal range for speech for years now, often in the superior range.But he has splinter areas of lower achievement, where he still needs help. He is very literal, appears to have no understanding of subtlety and still has to work hard to identify with someone else's point of view. He can seem perfectly normal, but when you really know him and work with him, and especially if he is tested, he scored moderate on the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) scale. easy child 2/difficult child 2 at age 6 was believed to be a normal but very bright child. Problems didn't really begin to be obvious for a few more years. Yet when we look back, we can see the early signs. You and your husband have the beginning of some big problems. I do wonder if the ODD presentation is possibly almost entirely due to the different ways of managing this child. You both need to be on the same page, it is vital. If she is a very bright child, and especially if there is something possibly wrong along the lines of ADHD, Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) or something else, then any problems such as different handling methods will greatly amplify the difficulties you are having. You say your husband is probably being the strict disciplinarian. This is a valid parenting style and many of us can say, "It worked with me, my parents were strict and I turned out fine." (although that is really no recommendation - "my parents used to whip us with an old belt, and I turned out fine" is no guarantee for any method), But strict, old-fashioned parenting is almost the opposite of what some kids need. I gave a list - bright kids; kids with ADHD or other difficulties. For various reasons, they do worse with strict controlling type of handling. That doesn't mean you go the other way entirely towards overly loose, unstructured, unchaperoned anarchy. There is a better way. A MUCH better way. You will find it in "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. If you go to the Early Childhood forum you will find a locked thread at the top of the page, dealing with adapting this book for younger children. It's a method which works amazingly for so many of us. It is also logical. At first it can seem counter-intuitive, but it actually short-circuits a lot of the problems and can get you faster to the ultimate goal of the parent - independent self-discipline in the child. Your husband sounds tired and frustrated, and also perhaps afraid inside that he is just no good at this parenting caper. He has a difficult child and is struggling with her. He can feel himself losing the battle - and he is right. Soon he will lose the war. She is getting older, smarter, more cunning and learning to be determined as well as sneaky. She sounds very frustrated and already in the bad habit of arguing and using every trick in the book to get her own way. I like your method of the spot on the forehead, but that will soon stop working. The first time she tells the truth and you call her a liar, she will see through the story. You need to get your husband to go to this website. He won't be the only bloke, by any means. And from my own experience, this can only help your relationship and your communication. My husband began lurking here very early on after I found this site, and would read what I was posting. Along the way he would get a better understanding of my vies on certain things, even though we both thought we were already communicating perfectly well. We found we were understanding one another even better. Then he began posting in his own right - he is "Marg's Man". He doesn't post often but he reads every day. Another thing that helped - I summarised the book and also talked it over with him. This helped me understand it even better, too. Early problems - you need to avoid the good cop, bad cop scenario but if one of you changes to Explosive Child methods and the other does not, then the stricter parent can find even greater resistance and will see the situation as getting worse, when it in reality is not. For this to work, you both need to sit down (away from the child) and decide on your methods, your tactics and what behaviours go into what 'basket'. You both must agree. It would also help to keep a diary on her behaviour, listing good things as well as bad. Your daughter could well be bored, from not being out of the house enough. I understand his concerns and fear that he will not be in sufficient control - he needs to find a compromise. Keeping her away from larger numbers of other people and kids is a good option. One other playmate only at a time is a good rule - for now. Go somewhere, but always have an escape plan. For example, if you go to the mall (and many would not, so don't be hard on him if he says it just doesn't work) then be prepared to immediately walk out and go home if she isn't able to behave. If there is ANY chance she is Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) in any way, then shouting at her is achieving exactly zilch. If anything, it could be making her worse. Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids model their behaviour toward others on how they themselves are treated. I can look back and see a great example from easy child 2/difficult child 2, when she was 3. I was busy talking on the telephone and kept having to say to her, "Be quiet, don't interrupt, I'm on the phone!" She asked me for a glass of juice. I was distracted and poured milk. Her response - she pounded her tiny fist on the bench and said, "I said I wanted juice!" The fist pounding - husband used to do it when he wanted quiet and the attention of the other kids. The tone of voice - it was exactly the tone of someone chastising a naughty child. She had picked it up as used on her,and was now using it herself because we had clearly shown her that this was the appropriate way to communicate. This is a common finding in high-functioning autism, although I know others will chime in and say it is found in other conditions too. But I know autism, and I see this often in not only my Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids, but in their classmates and friends with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). Even if your daughter has nothing wrong with her other than a high IQ, reading the book and following the guidelines can only help. You read the book, adapt what you want, and make sure that ALL those dealing with her are consistently using the same methods. Your giving her time to change tasks - that is very important. It is also showing her respect. Once you show respect to her, she will use that as a model and will begin to use it on you.You may need to remind her to speak politely, but again, you need to use your judgement. When the time is right, that will be a Basket B behaviour. Don't overload the baskets. The hardest thing for your husband will be letting go of behaviour problems that are not currently on the agenda (Basket C - leave these issues for now). It's also important to keep in mind what your long-term goals are, and to make sure they are goals for HER and not for you. For example, a parent whose task it is to mind the child and keep her occupied - cannot ignore the child and sit and watch daytime soaps on TV. If the child then tugs at your sleeve and asks to to come and play, or otherwise tries your patience, you have to stop and think - am I only wanting the child to play quietly, so I can enjoy my soapie in peace? How am I helping the child by doing this? But if you work with the child, work as a team, play together almost to a schedule, then you will get more out of the interaction as well as teach the child a great deal about teamwork, about cooperative play, about community. Trying to imagine how it all seems from the child's point of view is a worthwhile exercise. She's not being naughty just to make your life a misery. She's got good reasons for everything she does - good reasons for HER. Finding out what those are and trying to find other ways to meet her needs, can turn around some big problems. I hope this helps. Marg [/QUOTE]
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