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Is that where you learned to bite?
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 354407" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Andy, I am one of the first to try to include all kids, but I have learned the hard way, and now see my friends learning the hard way - TRUST your children's judgement when it comes to who they want to play with. It is generally a bad idea to force kids to spend time with other kids they don't like. The unpopular kid will know it and resent it; the kid forced to be nice will not learn anything positive form the experience either.</p><p></p><p>I remember being the unpopular kid when I was younger. I was only unpopular with this particular girl because I was several years younger and a nerd. The girl's mother wanted us to be buddies, because she wanted to cultivate my mother and having daughters as friends would help. Frankly, I wasn't impressed with the mother, either, I felt she was shallow and manipulative. I was about 11, the other girl was 14. We all went on a shopping trip to the city, now isn't that nice? Two mothers and two daughters, the older girl sullen and resentful and constantly looking over her shoulder lest a friend see her in company with a much younger nerdy girl. Oh yes, I knew. I felt sorry for her; I would have preferred to stay home and read a book.</p><p></p><p>And I saw the same thing again, with difficult child 3 in Kindergarten. A classmate of his was often dropped off to play with difficult child 3 because the boy's mother felt it would be good for her son to learn tolerance and acceptance of disability. Yes, she actually said that to me. If she wasn't such a genuinely kind person, I would have got angry with her. Unlike my childhood experience, this woman is NOT shallow. But despite her efforts, her son is and always was; he hated being made to hang around with difficult child 3. Even at 5 years old, it was obvious our boys had absolutely nothing in common. I finally managed to convince the boy's mother that it was only going to damage our son's friendship with one another, to force things.</p><p></p><p>As time has gone on, the other boy has at times been able to support difficult child 3 when he's been hassled. Or other times when there was a practical problem (difficult child 3 lost a toy at the beach, his friend dived down and found it for him) this boy has been kind. I do feel that if we'd allowed the ongoing relationship to continue to be forced, they wouldn't get on so well now.</p><p></p><p>A close friend of mine has a very bright, gifted daughter. An only child, she is doted on, petted, indulged, loved. But also raised to have a social conscience, in the extreme. As part of this social conscience, her mother has insisted on her befriending all the children in the class and has even encouraged the girl to invite home the unpopular kids, to show them a kindness. My friend has been horrified sometimes at her daughter's reluctance to be friendly to one girl; she couldn't understand why her loving, compassionate girl was rejecting this other classmate and as a result, mum became even more insistent on her daughter showing kindness and welcome.</p><p></p><p>Well, it has backfired. The daughter was not surprised when the gossip began, but it has been nasty. The unpopular girl has been telling everyone about my young friend's sexual practices (my friend is 11 years old). The details are graphic, other kids are named including their family pets! Yes, my 11 yo friend has been accused by a classmate of bonking everything male with a spine. And my young friend knew about this girl's tendency to say this sort of nasty thing, but was still being made to befriend this nasty girl, by her mother. But the social conscience in my young friend meant she would not tell her mtoher about the nasty gossip, because that would be telling tales and spreading gossip and she's been taught to not do that.</p><p></p><p>Sometimes our children have wiser heads than we give them credit for.</p><p></p><p>I have told my young friend's mother to please recognise that she already has raised her daughter to be a kind, compassionate and wise person and to value this in her girl and give it validity. Involve the daughter in her choices and reasons for asking her to befriend someone, and recognise that if a kid says, "I would rather not hang around with that child," they deserve to be listened to. A kid's instinct is often better than we give our kids credit for.</p><p></p><p>We want our kids to learn to listen to their gut feelings about whether someone is good or not. When Uncle Bobby wants you to give him a hug, is it OK? If Uncle Bobby isn't wearing any clothes at the time and the child feels it's a bit ooky, then we need our children to trust their own feelings about this, to value those feelings and to act on those instincts in order to keep safe. So we shouldn't undermine these lessons by forcing our kids to ignore their feelings, their gut instincts and reservations about others, purely in order to "be kind".</p><p></p><p>As I said right in the beginning, a kid who is being selected out for special treatment, someone to "be kind to", WILL almost always know about it and probably resent it. If the kid is unpopular because he/she is a sociopath in the making, then having that child resent your child is NOT good. Your child could find himself victimised or in a lot of difficulties, purely because of a misguided act of kindness.</p><p></p><p>I know saying all this probably makes me seem a heartless, cold cow. But I do often go out of my way to do kind things for people. However, you should always do it because you choose to, because you can, because you feel it is right. And you should do it with a glad heart, not a reluctant one.</p><p></p><p>If you want to teach your children to be kind to others and to include someone who is otherwise being left out, then the best way to teach this is NOT to make THEM do it, but to let your kids see YOU doing it. Involve your kids in baking a cake for an elderly neighbour, then take your kids with you when you deliver it.</p><p></p><p>You do it first. And you do it better. Because you are the adult, it is easier for you to remain safe (and you are more experienced in life, so you have a better chance of it not backfiring badly on you). But you should never require anything form your kids, tat they don't already see you doing yourself, to a greater extent.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 354407, member: 1991"] Andy, I am one of the first to try to include all kids, but I have learned the hard way, and now see my friends learning the hard way - TRUST your children's judgement when it comes to who they want to play with. It is generally a bad idea to force kids to spend time with other kids they don't like. The unpopular kid will know it and resent it; the kid forced to be nice will not learn anything positive form the experience either. I remember being the unpopular kid when I was younger. I was only unpopular with this particular girl because I was several years younger and a nerd. The girl's mother wanted us to be buddies, because she wanted to cultivate my mother and having daughters as friends would help. Frankly, I wasn't impressed with the mother, either, I felt she was shallow and manipulative. I was about 11, the other girl was 14. We all went on a shopping trip to the city, now isn't that nice? Two mothers and two daughters, the older girl sullen and resentful and constantly looking over her shoulder lest a friend see her in company with a much younger nerdy girl. Oh yes, I knew. I felt sorry for her; I would have preferred to stay home and read a book. And I saw the same thing again, with difficult child 3 in Kindergarten. A classmate of his was often dropped off to play with difficult child 3 because the boy's mother felt it would be good for her son to learn tolerance and acceptance of disability. Yes, she actually said that to me. If she wasn't such a genuinely kind person, I would have got angry with her. Unlike my childhood experience, this woman is NOT shallow. But despite her efforts, her son is and always was; he hated being made to hang around with difficult child 3. Even at 5 years old, it was obvious our boys had absolutely nothing in common. I finally managed to convince the boy's mother that it was only going to damage our son's friendship with one another, to force things. As time has gone on, the other boy has at times been able to support difficult child 3 when he's been hassled. Or other times when there was a practical problem (difficult child 3 lost a toy at the beach, his friend dived down and found it for him) this boy has been kind. I do feel that if we'd allowed the ongoing relationship to continue to be forced, they wouldn't get on so well now. A close friend of mine has a very bright, gifted daughter. An only child, she is doted on, petted, indulged, loved. But also raised to have a social conscience, in the extreme. As part of this social conscience, her mother has insisted on her befriending all the children in the class and has even encouraged the girl to invite home the unpopular kids, to show them a kindness. My friend has been horrified sometimes at her daughter's reluctance to be friendly to one girl; she couldn't understand why her loving, compassionate girl was rejecting this other classmate and as a result, mum became even more insistent on her daughter showing kindness and welcome. Well, it has backfired. The daughter was not surprised when the gossip began, but it has been nasty. The unpopular girl has been telling everyone about my young friend's sexual practices (my friend is 11 years old). The details are graphic, other kids are named including their family pets! Yes, my 11 yo friend has been accused by a classmate of bonking everything male with a spine. And my young friend knew about this girl's tendency to say this sort of nasty thing, but was still being made to befriend this nasty girl, by her mother. But the social conscience in my young friend meant she would not tell her mtoher about the nasty gossip, because that would be telling tales and spreading gossip and she's been taught to not do that. Sometimes our children have wiser heads than we give them credit for. I have told my young friend's mother to please recognise that she already has raised her daughter to be a kind, compassionate and wise person and to value this in her girl and give it validity. Involve the daughter in her choices and reasons for asking her to befriend someone, and recognise that if a kid says, "I would rather not hang around with that child," they deserve to be listened to. A kid's instinct is often better than we give our kids credit for. We want our kids to learn to listen to their gut feelings about whether someone is good or not. When Uncle Bobby wants you to give him a hug, is it OK? If Uncle Bobby isn't wearing any clothes at the time and the child feels it's a bit ooky, then we need our children to trust their own feelings about this, to value those feelings and to act on those instincts in order to keep safe. So we shouldn't undermine these lessons by forcing our kids to ignore their feelings, their gut instincts and reservations about others, purely in order to "be kind". As I said right in the beginning, a kid who is being selected out for special treatment, someone to "be kind to", WILL almost always know about it and probably resent it. If the kid is unpopular because he/she is a sociopath in the making, then having that child resent your child is NOT good. Your child could find himself victimised or in a lot of difficulties, purely because of a misguided act of kindness. I know saying all this probably makes me seem a heartless, cold cow. But I do often go out of my way to do kind things for people. However, you should always do it because you choose to, because you can, because you feel it is right. And you should do it with a glad heart, not a reluctant one. If you want to teach your children to be kind to others and to include someone who is otherwise being left out, then the best way to teach this is NOT to make THEM do it, but to let your kids see YOU doing it. Involve your kids in baking a cake for an elderly neighbour, then take your kids with you when you deliver it. You do it first. And you do it better. Because you are the adult, it is easier for you to remain safe (and you are more experienced in life, so you have a better chance of it not backfiring badly on you). But you should never require anything form your kids, tat they don't already see you doing yourself, to a greater extent. Marg [/QUOTE]
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