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<blockquote data-quote="Hound dog" data-source="post: 536166" data-attributes="member: 84"><p>That's true IC. I didn't think of it that way. And Sadie is on her way to getting a loving forever home, which if I hadn't picked her up, heaven only knows what would've happened to her. Plus all of Maggies siblings have found homes as well. Owner was lucky that her neighbor/my friend was such a huge help in finding them all good loving forever homes so they won't have Sadie's experience. But at 2 yrs of age, she should've had Mary fixed already. Yet then I wouldn't have Maggie. Yup. Catch 22 there. </p><p></p><p>Janet, I'd opt for the more intelligence. Sounds like Abby is going to be difficult to train. Someone else may have wonderful success with her on her own in a different environment. But as you said, Ziva is outgoing and you're already seeing results. You may eliminate the issue of vanishing dogs by having one smart enough to be trained to stay within her boundaries as well, plus smart enough not to be lured into wandering off. I see less behavior issues with smarter dogs too. </p><p></p><p>Maggie is, of course, learning the word no, and I have to use it fairly often. But she responds to it due to the tone of my voice. I've had lower intelligent dogs where seriously I could've stood on my head to get their attention and they just stare at you with that blank stare. It actually drives me a bit nuts. Which is why I'm careful when I'm picking a puppy to adopt. I don't want to take one home, bond with it, only to discover that I can't do anything with it........and later have to rehome it. When I adopt every intention is for Life. It's like giving birth to a child. (yeah maybe I take it a bit seriously, but a dog/cat is not just a pet to me) </p><p></p><p>The last really timid dog I had turned at about age 3. While it turned out she had health issues which probably contributed to her personality and timidness, I now avoid timid dogs. She was rehomed to a middle age couple who had no children and did well in that environment. They also opted to invest in the expensive medical treatment of her issues. </p><p></p><p>I prefer confident/trusting puppies. But then I also want them as protection and you just don't have high odds with that if you bring in a timid dog. I don't want them afraid of the intruder, I want them to go after them. Know what I mean?? </p><p></p><p>Which just made me realize I'm teaching Maggie another command, "watch 'em!". This one I taught Molly through play with a stuffed dog toy or bone or whatever......sort of a wrestle game thing where the toy sneaks around and "gets her". While the toy is sneaking....I tell the dog to "watch 'em". I did this by accident with Molly. (shows how smart she is) I *thought* it was just part of our game. But soon found out I could give the command for anything from an ant crawling on the sidewalk to a grown man and she'd watch them with an eagle eye. Next command was "get 'em". That's her command for I want what I had her watching stopped NOW! I won't teach a dog to attack in an upfront way. Molly is taught to STOP/hold, not attack. (although if she felt the threat was serious enough she'd attack on her own)</p><p></p><p>Katie's husband thought Molly was Miss Laid Back until he kept smarting off on how tough he was with dogs one morning and peeved me off. I told Molly to "watch 'em" and she came running from one room into where he was and stared him down. He was terrified to move. I just grinned at him. LOL That moment was priceless. </p><p></p><p>Molly is smart enough that I don't have to say her commands. I can snap my fingers and point a certain way and she does exactly what I want. This wasn't deliberate either. I do it with children. I'm doing it with Maggie. It's just something I do. It spooks people that she can "seem" to read my mind. </p><p></p><p>Betsy is not nearly as intelligent as Molly. But she's not dumb either. (although sometimes she pretends to be) She'll follow the same commands and can even manage some of them with hand snaps and pointing, although is not quite as accurate as Molly. Precious, her mother, was dumb as a box of rocks. She was sweet through and through (thank heavens or she'd not have anything going for her) but just plain stupid. Took 2 yrs to get her house trained alone. And the only other thing she learned was to sit up. It was supposed to be "sit" mind you, she just turned it into "sit up" because she'd sit on her haunches and beg when she did it. (Betsy does the same thing, but it's to the correct command and she can just "sit" too) And I'm so proud of Betsy. She's really come "into her own" since joining Nichole's family. She takes her role as protector seriously and has really stepped up to the plate. She's been great for them and behaves wonderfully........now following even some commands she pretended not to know here. lol Nichole keeps her crated at night, but Betsy has shown her that if she feels it's necessary.....she <strong>will</strong> break out of her crate. (necessary as in a break in, or a potty emergency) </p><p></p><p>Rowdy is just plain amazing, especially for a dog with no "official" training. He responds to hand snaps/points better than spoken commands......but was actually never trained to do either. I regret leaving his training alone trying to "force" a bond between him and Travis......because had I started him young he might have surpassed Molly by leaps and bounds. </p><p></p><p>I know people that enjoy dumb goofy dogs. When I was a kid I had a few of them. But once I found my first really smart one........it was a whole different thing and I've never been able to go back to dumb and goofy. </p><p></p><p>Janet, I'd really push the good points to choosing the the smarter puppy, and the cons of choosing Abby who might just wander off one day like her mom seems to have done........Maybe that will work. If you're keeping one, what's the difference which one? You're going to be the one home with it all the time, not Tony.</p><p></p><p>And just to add, husband would <strong>never</strong> think to tell me I couldn't have something I wanted. Every time he did, it came back to bite him in the rear tenfold. He was my best friend and my husband, not my boss, not my father. He forgot that briefly after we first moved into this house. When I brought home Lil Bit it made him furious. He demanded I not bring home anymore animals. Ha! That summer alone, I rehomed at least 10 rescued from the no kill shelter. (at that time adoption was free) When he finally came to me and apologized and told me I could do what I wanted, I stopped. </p><p></p><p>I hope you get to keep Ziva. I know you love Abby, but Ziva sounds easier to train and that you'll be happier with her in the long run.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hound dog, post: 536166, member: 84"] That's true IC. I didn't think of it that way. And Sadie is on her way to getting a loving forever home, which if I hadn't picked her up, heaven only knows what would've happened to her. Plus all of Maggies siblings have found homes as well. Owner was lucky that her neighbor/my friend was such a huge help in finding them all good loving forever homes so they won't have Sadie's experience. But at 2 yrs of age, she should've had Mary fixed already. Yet then I wouldn't have Maggie. Yup. Catch 22 there. Janet, I'd opt for the more intelligence. Sounds like Abby is going to be difficult to train. Someone else may have wonderful success with her on her own in a different environment. But as you said, Ziva is outgoing and you're already seeing results. You may eliminate the issue of vanishing dogs by having one smart enough to be trained to stay within her boundaries as well, plus smart enough not to be lured into wandering off. I see less behavior issues with smarter dogs too. Maggie is, of course, learning the word no, and I have to use it fairly often. But she responds to it due to the tone of my voice. I've had lower intelligent dogs where seriously I could've stood on my head to get their attention and they just stare at you with that blank stare. It actually drives me a bit nuts. Which is why I'm careful when I'm picking a puppy to adopt. I don't want to take one home, bond with it, only to discover that I can't do anything with it........and later have to rehome it. When I adopt every intention is for Life. It's like giving birth to a child. (yeah maybe I take it a bit seriously, but a dog/cat is not just a pet to me) The last really timid dog I had turned at about age 3. While it turned out she had health issues which probably contributed to her personality and timidness, I now avoid timid dogs. She was rehomed to a middle age couple who had no children and did well in that environment. They also opted to invest in the expensive medical treatment of her issues. I prefer confident/trusting puppies. But then I also want them as protection and you just don't have high odds with that if you bring in a timid dog. I don't want them afraid of the intruder, I want them to go after them. Know what I mean?? Which just made me realize I'm teaching Maggie another command, "watch 'em!". This one I taught Molly through play with a stuffed dog toy or bone or whatever......sort of a wrestle game thing where the toy sneaks around and "gets her". While the toy is sneaking....I tell the dog to "watch 'em". I did this by accident with Molly. (shows how smart she is) I *thought* it was just part of our game. But soon found out I could give the command for anything from an ant crawling on the sidewalk to a grown man and she'd watch them with an eagle eye. Next command was "get 'em". That's her command for I want what I had her watching stopped NOW! I won't teach a dog to attack in an upfront way. Molly is taught to STOP/hold, not attack. (although if she felt the threat was serious enough she'd attack on her own) Katie's husband thought Molly was Miss Laid Back until he kept smarting off on how tough he was with dogs one morning and peeved me off. I told Molly to "watch 'em" and she came running from one room into where he was and stared him down. He was terrified to move. I just grinned at him. LOL That moment was priceless. Molly is smart enough that I don't have to say her commands. I can snap my fingers and point a certain way and she does exactly what I want. This wasn't deliberate either. I do it with children. I'm doing it with Maggie. It's just something I do. It spooks people that she can "seem" to read my mind. Betsy is not nearly as intelligent as Molly. But she's not dumb either. (although sometimes she pretends to be) She'll follow the same commands and can even manage some of them with hand snaps and pointing, although is not quite as accurate as Molly. Precious, her mother, was dumb as a box of rocks. She was sweet through and through (thank heavens or she'd not have anything going for her) but just plain stupid. Took 2 yrs to get her house trained alone. And the only other thing she learned was to sit up. It was supposed to be "sit" mind you, she just turned it into "sit up" because she'd sit on her haunches and beg when she did it. (Betsy does the same thing, but it's to the correct command and she can just "sit" too) And I'm so proud of Betsy. She's really come "into her own" since joining Nichole's family. She takes her role as protector seriously and has really stepped up to the plate. She's been great for them and behaves wonderfully........now following even some commands she pretended not to know here. lol Nichole keeps her crated at night, but Betsy has shown her that if she feels it's necessary.....she [B]will[/B] break out of her crate. (necessary as in a break in, or a potty emergency) Rowdy is just plain amazing, especially for a dog with no "official" training. He responds to hand snaps/points better than spoken commands......but was actually never trained to do either. I regret leaving his training alone trying to "force" a bond between him and Travis......because had I started him young he might have surpassed Molly by leaps and bounds. I know people that enjoy dumb goofy dogs. When I was a kid I had a few of them. But once I found my first really smart one........it was a whole different thing and I've never been able to go back to dumb and goofy. Janet, I'd really push the good points to choosing the the smarter puppy, and the cons of choosing Abby who might just wander off one day like her mom seems to have done........Maybe that will work. If you're keeping one, what's the difference which one? You're going to be the one home with it all the time, not Tony. And just to add, husband would [B]never[/B] think to tell me I couldn't have something I wanted. Every time he did, it came back to bite him in the rear tenfold. He was my best friend and my husband, not my boss, not my father. He forgot that briefly after we first moved into this house. When I brought home Lil Bit it made him furious. He demanded I not bring home anymore animals. Ha! That summer alone, I rehomed at least 10 rescued from the no kill shelter. (at that time adoption was free) When he finally came to me and apologized and told me I could do what I wanted, I stopped. I hope you get to keep Ziva. I know you love Abby, but Ziva sounds easier to train and that you'll be happier with her in the long run. [/QUOTE]
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