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new here-forgot to introduce myself (and really need some suggestions!!)
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 167270" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>This sounds to me (and I include LostThePlot's child here, too) like something else entirely. There seems to be sensory issues especially to sound. PLus the demanding behaviour and raging when you don't give them what they want instantly, even if "what they want" is changing minute to minute - sounds to me like a child who believes you have a direct link to their thoughts. You can also get this incredible egocentricity in Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), at least (which is what I really know about, from our experience). Probably other conditions too.</p><p>And, of course, this would explain how the ODD symptoms would have developed/be developing.</p><p></p><p>Step 1 - change your parenting approach (because whatever you're doing now, it's not working). Try to get out of your head that the child is doing whatever-it-is purely to be annoying. WHen she starts singing loudly in the car or making noises, I suspect her prime objective is to drown out the noises that are hurting her. I used to think my son (difficult child 1) was being annoying also, purely to upset us; in fact, he simply HAD to do it and was often unaware he was doing it, or was unaware it was a problem for us (even when we told him repeatedly).</p><p>That doesn't mean the child won't start to do it deliberately if she realises it annoys you; but I suspect that still isn't the reason at the moment.</p><p></p><p>Attacking the other child - that is a worry, but again, in her mind it is self-defence. "Keep away from me" signal. Again, it could be sensory - she needs a very large personal space especially from other children (and probably pets?).</p><p></p><p>So when I suggest changing parenting, I'm referring to picking up "Explosive Child" methods and seeing how you go. I put this as Step 1, because you can do it while you're waiting for </p><p></p><p>Step 2 - get the child thoroughly assessed by a neuropsychologist. If GERD has been positively confirmed then you have one factor. But it's nowhere near enough for what you describe. However, if (for example) your child is also Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) AND has GERD, that could greatly exacerbate the sensory issues a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kid would have. Also in any other condition with sensory issues.</p><p></p><p>LostThePlot, I see your son fits the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) label (Asperger's) - I didn't look at first but I just scrolled back up to check. I would be looking at his sensory issues.</p><p></p><p>And remember - for both kids, the world as they perceive it is what is normal for them. We sometimes forget that what we are used to, is what is normal. And our normal may not be their normal. So when they expect us as parents to be plugged right in to what their normal is, and we seem to not understand, they will rage at us and call us stupid.</p><p></p><p>Another important point for Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids (and maybe others) - when they are extremely egocentric (and a certain amount of egocentricity is normal to begin with, then most kids slowly learn that the world does not revolve around THEM) then they do not learn appropriate behaviour by being told, or watching what happens to others. They only learn by what happens to them, and they learn by modelling. I said this on another thread yesterday - if you yell at your child, if you call your child frustrating, then your child will learn to yell at you and call YOU frustrating. After all, in your child's mind this is how people are supposed to behave. You set the standard. Surprisingly, these kids often want to be able to fit in and will therefore try to pattern their behaviour on the people around them and how those people behave towards them.</p><p></p><p>We grow up with our own ideas of how to be a parent, based on our own experiences. Sometimes we are determined to be as good as our parents. Sometimes we are determined to be as different as possible to our parents. The end result, though, is we parent our children the way we were treated. And for a difficult child, this is often the wrong way.</p><p></p><p>That's where "The Explosive Child" can come in handy. I found it helped me understand the way my child views the world, and once I could understand how he was thinking, I could better communicate to him what I wanted from him, and had better success in getting it. Some people think I spoil difficult child 3, or let him get away with too much. But if I used the methods they want to, it would undo a lot of progress we've made. (Heaven preserve me from people who want to 'help' and think they know more than I do, about my own child! Especially the people who walk away in a hurry when they realise they got it wrong, and thereby leave me to clean up the mess.)</p><p></p><p>I'm glad you've found us. We can't diagnose here, but we can help with the day to day "at the coalface" hassles.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 167270, member: 1991"] This sounds to me (and I include LostThePlot's child here, too) like something else entirely. There seems to be sensory issues especially to sound. PLus the demanding behaviour and raging when you don't give them what they want instantly, even if "what they want" is changing minute to minute - sounds to me like a child who believes you have a direct link to their thoughts. You can also get this incredible egocentricity in Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), at least (which is what I really know about, from our experience). Probably other conditions too. And, of course, this would explain how the ODD symptoms would have developed/be developing. Step 1 - change your parenting approach (because whatever you're doing now, it's not working). Try to get out of your head that the child is doing whatever-it-is purely to be annoying. WHen she starts singing loudly in the car or making noises, I suspect her prime objective is to drown out the noises that are hurting her. I used to think my son (difficult child 1) was being annoying also, purely to upset us; in fact, he simply HAD to do it and was often unaware he was doing it, or was unaware it was a problem for us (even when we told him repeatedly). That doesn't mean the child won't start to do it deliberately if she realises it annoys you; but I suspect that still isn't the reason at the moment. Attacking the other child - that is a worry, but again, in her mind it is self-defence. "Keep away from me" signal. Again, it could be sensory - she needs a very large personal space especially from other children (and probably pets?). So when I suggest changing parenting, I'm referring to picking up "Explosive Child" methods and seeing how you go. I put this as Step 1, because you can do it while you're waiting for Step 2 - get the child thoroughly assessed by a neuropsychologist. If GERD has been positively confirmed then you have one factor. But it's nowhere near enough for what you describe. However, if (for example) your child is also Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) AND has GERD, that could greatly exacerbate the sensory issues a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kid would have. Also in any other condition with sensory issues. LostThePlot, I see your son fits the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) label (Asperger's) - I didn't look at first but I just scrolled back up to check. I would be looking at his sensory issues. And remember - for both kids, the world as they perceive it is what is normal for them. We sometimes forget that what we are used to, is what is normal. And our normal may not be their normal. So when they expect us as parents to be plugged right in to what their normal is, and we seem to not understand, they will rage at us and call us stupid. Another important point for Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids (and maybe others) - when they are extremely egocentric (and a certain amount of egocentricity is normal to begin with, then most kids slowly learn that the world does not revolve around THEM) then they do not learn appropriate behaviour by being told, or watching what happens to others. They only learn by what happens to them, and they learn by modelling. I said this on another thread yesterday - if you yell at your child, if you call your child frustrating, then your child will learn to yell at you and call YOU frustrating. After all, in your child's mind this is how people are supposed to behave. You set the standard. Surprisingly, these kids often want to be able to fit in and will therefore try to pattern their behaviour on the people around them and how those people behave towards them. We grow up with our own ideas of how to be a parent, based on our own experiences. Sometimes we are determined to be as good as our parents. Sometimes we are determined to be as different as possible to our parents. The end result, though, is we parent our children the way we were treated. And for a difficult child, this is often the wrong way. That's where "The Explosive Child" can come in handy. I found it helped me understand the way my child views the world, and once I could understand how he was thinking, I could better communicate to him what I wanted from him, and had better success in getting it. Some people think I spoil difficult child 3, or let him get away with too much. But if I used the methods they want to, it would undo a lot of progress we've made. (Heaven preserve me from people who want to 'help' and think they know more than I do, about my own child! Especially the people who walk away in a hurry when they realise they got it wrong, and thereby leave me to clean up the mess.) I'm glad you've found us. We can't diagnose here, but we can help with the day to day "at the coalface" hassles. Marg [/QUOTE]
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