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(New Member) This child is going to ruin our family.
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 265208" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Good on you for trying to find ways to help.</p><p></p><p>A few thoughts from me. I'll try to be quick because it's late, I'm tired and I need my sleep!</p><p></p><p>1) From things you say, and the things MWM reacted to, I think the entire family understanding of your sister is skewed possibly incorrectly and this means that the help she IS getting isn't in the right direction or enough. Sort of like marking time instead of marching forward.</p><p></p><p>This isn't anybody's fault - some conditions are really hard to diagnose, ODD is a handy label which really isn't answering your questions. The treatment she is getting - helpful, but possibly only to a certain extent. If you're not working on the underlying condition, then treating the fragment of it is like a builderpainting over mildew on the wallpaper, which is being caused by a leaking pipe in the wall. The more you try to paint over it, the more the water will get dammed up behind it and eventually break through with fresh mould. It still involves expenditure of money and effort to do the painting and it may make it look better for a short while, but the underlying problem is still there and untreated. However, if you can identify the cracked water pipe in the wall, dig in and chip it out (looks awful and messy in the process) then repair the pipe, re-plaster the wall and then paint over it, the problem will be much more long-term solved.</p><p></p><p>In the same way, it could be time for your sister to get re-evaluated, possibly with someone different for a different opinion. On this site we often suggest a neuropsychologist assessment because it can reveal so much about any underluying learning problems. Such learning problems can lead to a deep sense of self-loathing and insecurity. Needless to say, depression is also common. </p><p></p><p>Try to imagine what it must be like for someone with an undiagnosed learning problem. Even a diagnosed one - management and support is often either not enough or not applied correctly, parents have to contantly watch, monitor and tweak. So a child with a learning problem, who sees other kids surge ahead with confidence andanswer questions in class, who do well - this child can often feel dumb, stupid, a fraud, and afraid of people discovering this.</p><p></p><p>Kids want to be normal, they want to be like everyone else. That's how fashion can get such a hold on us - we see pictures of someone who looks good (or who we're told looks good) and we want to be seen to be like them. We want what they have. Even my youngest autistic son puts a HUGE effort into watching other kids and trying to talk like they do, behave like they do and 'blend in'. And he's not good at it, makes a real hash of it. Doesn't always choose good role models, either. However, back when he was in Grade 3 he said to me, "I'm getting better at pretending to be normal."</p><p></p><p>A lot of the bad behaviour you describe, including the grudge thing, the resentment, the not letting things go, you could also find in autism. You could find it in bipolar, you could probably find it in a number of conditions. Finding out what the condition is makes it easier to know exactly what you're dealing with so you can focus your energies more accurately and effectively. It's the equivalent of fixing the leaking pipe directly, instead of simply painting over the recurring mildew.</p><p></p><p>2) The depression - that can be a factor of whatever is the underlying condition, or it could be her reacting to the fallout from her condition. But whichever it is - antidepressants clearly are making a positive difference in her life. And in our lives, sometimes we take medications if it means we can function better.</p><p></p><p>I take strong painkillers. I do this under the supervision of a pain specialist. But one of my other specialists actually referred to me as an addict. I was angry with him because I don't feel that it was an accurate statement. True, people who take long-term opiates can so easily develop an addiction. IN suchcases it becomes a problem when the patient goes looking for ways to get more of the pain medications in order to feel good, even when the pain isn't severe enough any more to warrant te pain medications. Also, opiates (and a lot of other medications) lose effectiveness after a while and yo get the same effect you have to keep increasing the dose.</p><p>I don't take my medications to feel 'high'. In fact, I hate any such feeling and I hate the slight muscle weakness feelings I can get, if I've taken more than I needed. I feel my throat muscles going slack and I hate that feeling. I've learned that I function best when I still have a low level of pain, when the pills have knocked most of it but not all of it. As a result, my opiates help me function. If I don't take them, the pain is so crippling I can't move and I end up in hospital. Withdrawal - it would be a snap, compared to what I go through if the pain is not controlled. If I stop taking my medications, I will go into withdrawal, because my body has become dependent. But I am not an addict - I take my medications only to deal with the main problem - pain. If my pain was gone, I would be able to stop the medications. Ofcourse this would put me into withdrawal so ZI probably would choose to wean off and not just go cold turkey. As a matter of fact, a new treatment I've been on has reduced my pain levels and as a result I have chosen to reduce my own opiate dose. When the new medication regime is stopped (it has nasty side effects) I will probably need to increase the pain medications again. But the period of time on the lower dose may have reduced the overall dose I will need to go back to.</p><p></p><p>As I said, that is not addiction. Because when I take these medications, I function better.</p><p></p><p>In your sister's case, she may well be dependent on the antidepressants but it's a dependence of "hey, I can function on this stuff." It's not a "gimme the drugs so I can blot out the world" type of dependence.</p><p></p><p>Some drug dependence can be a positive thing. If you function better on the drug, then it's a good thing. If you take the drug regularly and your quality of life is deteriorating as a result, then it is a problem. And that is the critical test - does she function better on the medications? If so, then they are a good thing.</p><p></p><p>My difficult child 1 takes Zoloft. He had his dose drastically increased some years ago when he broke up with his girlfriend and was suicidally depressed. The Zoloft saw him through a tough couple of years. Then when his mood was better, the doctor said, "Let's try and take you off it, let's slowly cut you down until you can cut it out entirely." But we found that if the Zoloft dose dropped below a certain point, certain Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) symptoms (the main reason for originally taking Zoloft) came back. So difficult child 1 made the decision to stop stepping down the dose and to instead maintain a dose at his current low level. We talked it over with the doctor and it's all been medically okayed.</p><p></p><p>3) While you're waiting for someone to tell you more specifically what is wrong, you can follow your instincts and work on the symptoms yourselves, using what you read and glean from books, websites and your own instincts. Your parents sound wonderful, but you all sound burned out. We can help here, I would strongly recommend you share these threads with your parents and get them to post or at least lurk here too. It's amazing just how much it can help your communication with each other, even if you think it is already so good it doesn't need improving. If you're not sure, just go back over what you wrote and realise - you probably didn't express it to your parents in such a condensed, effective way. Written communication IS different, it can make quite a difference to how our words are perceived.</p><p></p><p>4) For some general assistance on behaviour issues and also getting a glimpse into how she is feeling (which is always useful - "know your enemy" even, is worth considering) read "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. A lot of us on this site have found it made a big difference in how we manage our difficult child(ren). You can use the same techniques more widely, too. I've even considered it as applied to bureaucrats, even organisations! It's not only effective, for us it actually was easier to implement, than what we were already doing. </p><p></p><p>5) You as sister, especially with only about 7 years between you - in her mind you are equal, therefore you have absolutely no rights to correct her. But in YOUR eyes, you can see what she is doing wrong and the fledgling parent in you is trying to step in and take over some of the burden for your parents. And coming form you, she is really kicking hard against this because she resents it, even if you are doing it exactly right. We went through this with our kids. It was interesting to see the different relationshjips with our kids, according to their relative ages. easy child could correct difficult child 3 but when easy child 2/difficult child 2 tried to use the exact same techniques and even the same words, he wouldn't take it from her at all, he would scream blue murder. easy child 2/difficult child 2 of course felt this wasn't fair, and of course she was right. But we couldn't do anything about it, she simply had to use a different method because easy child was in a different place.</p><p>In the same way, you yourself are probably going to have to develop your own techniques for your sister, techniques different to your parents. Like everything else, use what works and forget what doesn't. Also be prepared to challenge ideas and change your techniques as you and she both change as you both grow.</p><p></p><p>6) Something we suggest - write it down. Take notes of her behaviour, of what you observe. Do a PMI - Positive, Minus, Interesting. Note what sets her off, note what calms her down. Not the fun stuff, note the bad stuff. And if you can, lock it away with a password so she can't access it and get angry with you for it. This is all going to be valuable information for your sister and her parents. It's also useful when you're planning to implement the techniques in "Explosive Child".</p><p></p><p>You sound like you're all struggling financially - so get the book out of the library, at least for now. There are several editions, and surprisingly they are somewhat different. If you can, read the 2nd edition as well as the 3rd.</p><p></p><p>Stick around here, you will find support as well as help.</p><p></p><p>Marg.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 265208, member: 1991"] Good on you for trying to find ways to help. A few thoughts from me. I'll try to be quick because it's late, I'm tired and I need my sleep! 1) From things you say, and the things MWM reacted to, I think the entire family understanding of your sister is skewed possibly incorrectly and this means that the help she IS getting isn't in the right direction or enough. Sort of like marking time instead of marching forward. This isn't anybody's fault - some conditions are really hard to diagnose, ODD is a handy label which really isn't answering your questions. The treatment she is getting - helpful, but possibly only to a certain extent. If you're not working on the underlying condition, then treating the fragment of it is like a builderpainting over mildew on the wallpaper, which is being caused by a leaking pipe in the wall. The more you try to paint over it, the more the water will get dammed up behind it and eventually break through with fresh mould. It still involves expenditure of money and effort to do the painting and it may make it look better for a short while, but the underlying problem is still there and untreated. However, if you can identify the cracked water pipe in the wall, dig in and chip it out (looks awful and messy in the process) then repair the pipe, re-plaster the wall and then paint over it, the problem will be much more long-term solved. In the same way, it could be time for your sister to get re-evaluated, possibly with someone different for a different opinion. On this site we often suggest a neuropsychologist assessment because it can reveal so much about any underluying learning problems. Such learning problems can lead to a deep sense of self-loathing and insecurity. Needless to say, depression is also common. Try to imagine what it must be like for someone with an undiagnosed learning problem. Even a diagnosed one - management and support is often either not enough or not applied correctly, parents have to contantly watch, monitor and tweak. So a child with a learning problem, who sees other kids surge ahead with confidence andanswer questions in class, who do well - this child can often feel dumb, stupid, a fraud, and afraid of people discovering this. Kids want to be normal, they want to be like everyone else. That's how fashion can get such a hold on us - we see pictures of someone who looks good (or who we're told looks good) and we want to be seen to be like them. We want what they have. Even my youngest autistic son puts a HUGE effort into watching other kids and trying to talk like they do, behave like they do and 'blend in'. And he's not good at it, makes a real hash of it. Doesn't always choose good role models, either. However, back when he was in Grade 3 he said to me, "I'm getting better at pretending to be normal." A lot of the bad behaviour you describe, including the grudge thing, the resentment, the not letting things go, you could also find in autism. You could find it in bipolar, you could probably find it in a number of conditions. Finding out what the condition is makes it easier to know exactly what you're dealing with so you can focus your energies more accurately and effectively. It's the equivalent of fixing the leaking pipe directly, instead of simply painting over the recurring mildew. 2) The depression - that can be a factor of whatever is the underlying condition, or it could be her reacting to the fallout from her condition. But whichever it is - antidepressants clearly are making a positive difference in her life. And in our lives, sometimes we take medications if it means we can function better. I take strong painkillers. I do this under the supervision of a pain specialist. But one of my other specialists actually referred to me as an addict. I was angry with him because I don't feel that it was an accurate statement. True, people who take long-term opiates can so easily develop an addiction. IN suchcases it becomes a problem when the patient goes looking for ways to get more of the pain medications in order to feel good, even when the pain isn't severe enough any more to warrant te pain medications. Also, opiates (and a lot of other medications) lose effectiveness after a while and yo get the same effect you have to keep increasing the dose. I don't take my medications to feel 'high'. In fact, I hate any such feeling and I hate the slight muscle weakness feelings I can get, if I've taken more than I needed. I feel my throat muscles going slack and I hate that feeling. I've learned that I function best when I still have a low level of pain, when the pills have knocked most of it but not all of it. As a result, my opiates help me function. If I don't take them, the pain is so crippling I can't move and I end up in hospital. Withdrawal - it would be a snap, compared to what I go through if the pain is not controlled. If I stop taking my medications, I will go into withdrawal, because my body has become dependent. But I am not an addict - I take my medications only to deal with the main problem - pain. If my pain was gone, I would be able to stop the medications. Ofcourse this would put me into withdrawal so ZI probably would choose to wean off and not just go cold turkey. As a matter of fact, a new treatment I've been on has reduced my pain levels and as a result I have chosen to reduce my own opiate dose. When the new medication regime is stopped (it has nasty side effects) I will probably need to increase the pain medications again. But the period of time on the lower dose may have reduced the overall dose I will need to go back to. As I said, that is not addiction. Because when I take these medications, I function better. In your sister's case, she may well be dependent on the antidepressants but it's a dependence of "hey, I can function on this stuff." It's not a "gimme the drugs so I can blot out the world" type of dependence. Some drug dependence can be a positive thing. If you function better on the drug, then it's a good thing. If you take the drug regularly and your quality of life is deteriorating as a result, then it is a problem. And that is the critical test - does she function better on the medications? If so, then they are a good thing. My difficult child 1 takes Zoloft. He had his dose drastically increased some years ago when he broke up with his girlfriend and was suicidally depressed. The Zoloft saw him through a tough couple of years. Then when his mood was better, the doctor said, "Let's try and take you off it, let's slowly cut you down until you can cut it out entirely." But we found that if the Zoloft dose dropped below a certain point, certain Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) symptoms (the main reason for originally taking Zoloft) came back. So difficult child 1 made the decision to stop stepping down the dose and to instead maintain a dose at his current low level. We talked it over with the doctor and it's all been medically okayed. 3) While you're waiting for someone to tell you more specifically what is wrong, you can follow your instincts and work on the symptoms yourselves, using what you read and glean from books, websites and your own instincts. Your parents sound wonderful, but you all sound burned out. We can help here, I would strongly recommend you share these threads with your parents and get them to post or at least lurk here too. It's amazing just how much it can help your communication with each other, even if you think it is already so good it doesn't need improving. If you're not sure, just go back over what you wrote and realise - you probably didn't express it to your parents in such a condensed, effective way. Written communication IS different, it can make quite a difference to how our words are perceived. 4) For some general assistance on behaviour issues and also getting a glimpse into how she is feeling (which is always useful - "know your enemy" even, is worth considering) read "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. A lot of us on this site have found it made a big difference in how we manage our difficult child(ren). You can use the same techniques more widely, too. I've even considered it as applied to bureaucrats, even organisations! It's not only effective, for us it actually was easier to implement, than what we were already doing. 5) You as sister, especially with only about 7 years between you - in her mind you are equal, therefore you have absolutely no rights to correct her. But in YOUR eyes, you can see what she is doing wrong and the fledgling parent in you is trying to step in and take over some of the burden for your parents. And coming form you, she is really kicking hard against this because she resents it, even if you are doing it exactly right. We went through this with our kids. It was interesting to see the different relationshjips with our kids, according to their relative ages. easy child could correct difficult child 3 but when easy child 2/difficult child 2 tried to use the exact same techniques and even the same words, he wouldn't take it from her at all, he would scream blue murder. easy child 2/difficult child 2 of course felt this wasn't fair, and of course she was right. But we couldn't do anything about it, she simply had to use a different method because easy child was in a different place. In the same way, you yourself are probably going to have to develop your own techniques for your sister, techniques different to your parents. Like everything else, use what works and forget what doesn't. Also be prepared to challenge ideas and change your techniques as you and she both change as you both grow. 6) Something we suggest - write it down. Take notes of her behaviour, of what you observe. Do a PMI - Positive, Minus, Interesting. Note what sets her off, note what calms her down. Not the fun stuff, note the bad stuff. And if you can, lock it away with a password so she can't access it and get angry with you for it. This is all going to be valuable information for your sister and her parents. It's also useful when you're planning to implement the techniques in "Explosive Child". You sound like you're all struggling financially - so get the book out of the library, at least for now. There are several editions, and surprisingly they are somewhat different. If you can, read the 2nd edition as well as the 3rd. Stick around here, you will find support as well as help. Marg. [/QUOTE]
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