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Newbie...does this sound like ODD?
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<blockquote data-quote="buddy" data-source="post: 498692" data-attributes="member: 12886"><p>Hi there and welcome! Great question. Here are clues in your post that stuck out to me...</p><p>1. he had a speech/lang delay</p><p>2. difficult baby</p><p>3. head banging</p><p></p><p>4. and the types of sentences that you wrote above. I personally think ODD lends a tone of the child could do better but is choosing to do the opposite just for the sake of doing the opposite. I think the history and examples you are giving do not strike me as fully that (not that he can't have "naughty"moments... especially if he is a frustrated kid).</p><p></p><p>It sounds to me like he is actually wired differently and that there are some underlying issues (as many of my board family have thought too). I am always careful when I make a judgement like "Just to Upset Her".... because while that IS the result it does not mean that he did it thinking...HMMM How can I upset my sister??? OH I know, I will take her toy or poke her or whatever.... a HUGE clue is that you say that he thinks all possessions are his. He sounds like he does not have the ability to fully take other's perspectives...ownership, feelings etc. It is all about him which is not to say he is a selfish child or has some kind of scary mental illness...just saying that he may not fully have those skills yet and indeed may not be able to ever fully take on that perspective depending on what is going on underneath all of this.</p><p></p><p>He sounds like predicting consequences of his actions is really not something he can do yet. Do not assume that he is doing it for a reaction just because it GETS a reaction. It is likely he is not thinking before he does these things and he is just being impulsive and/or reactive to whatever is going on inside of him.</p><p></p><p>The things you mention from when he is a baby/toddler.... again clues to this... this started along ago and he did not do those things on purpose... he didn't hold off on his speech/language to get attention or cause problems. ( I know you know this, just tying it all together) So the more recent behaviors may be really under the same bigger umbrella. </p><p></p><p>This is just what hit me when I read your post. While ODD may be what his behaviors LOOK like right now, as you can see from most of us, it really does not help much. </p><p></p><p>I agree that a full neuropsychologist evaluation, and an Occupational Therapist (OT) and Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) (with someone who works with kids who have "pragmatic" communication issues which is their word for social communication....make sure they have experience in this area because they are ALL trained in it to some degree just like, say, a dr. is trained in all medication areas a little bit ....but in the end everyone WORKS in their chosen specialty.) This way you will get a much better picture of what is really driving this. It sounds like he may have issues with impulse control, predicting consequences, taking perspectives, understanding the world around him, and the world around him may actually be uncomfortable if he has problems integrating sensory signals like sound, touch, smell, sights, and taste. </p><p></p><p>Understanding these things is KEY to the treatment and parenting. Say for example a child who is deaf just grabs things, screams, pushes people out of the way to correct what he sees as wrong... punishing those behaviors is not going to help him get better. Though it would get him lots of attention and he may even like the attention, it is not what caused it. Once the hearing loss is found, and the child is given a way to communicate, then progress can be made. </p><p></p><p>I hope that makes sense. It is such a HUGE puzzle to wade through and when you are living day to day with a child who is SOO challenging it can be really super frustrating. Even KNOWING what is driving things with my son I certainly do not handle things well all of the time. But we soldier on. You will too! You have many here who understand how hard this is and I am so glad you found us. </p><p></p><p>I agree with all those who have offered ideas here for searching for answers... let us know how things are going and for sure come to share your frustrations. It really does help.</p><p></p><p></p><p>EDIT: I added this after coming back from my rushed first response...had to get medications and breakfast so hadn't read thru everyone's responses much, sorry....</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>given this, in my humble opinion (and I did know of my son's bio brother having a diagnosis of autism too) I would TREAT it as autism given that will not hurt him, it will support his areas of weakness and not assume that he is in control of the behaviors. I would use very direct teaching methods, not assume he can pick things up...sure we can often stop our kids with a consequence or even get them to do something with a reward, but if we don't directly teach the skills and practice them they will not improve and in fact as you are seeing they will likely get worse in areas as they become more and more frustrated. I would use schedules, have routines, help him negotiate social things, honor his special interests and use them to teach, etc.. things you are probably already doing with your older Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) son. again, just MHO as you are going thru the diagnosis process.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="buddy, post: 498692, member: 12886"] Hi there and welcome! Great question. Here are clues in your post that stuck out to me... 1. he had a speech/lang delay 2. difficult baby 3. head banging 4. and the types of sentences that you wrote above. I personally think ODD lends a tone of the child could do better but is choosing to do the opposite just for the sake of doing the opposite. I think the history and examples you are giving do not strike me as fully that (not that he can't have "naughty"moments... especially if he is a frustrated kid). It sounds to me like he is actually wired differently and that there are some underlying issues (as many of my board family have thought too). I am always careful when I make a judgement like "Just to Upset Her".... because while that IS the result it does not mean that he did it thinking...HMMM How can I upset my sister??? OH I know, I will take her toy or poke her or whatever.... a HUGE clue is that you say that he thinks all possessions are his. He sounds like he does not have the ability to fully take other's perspectives...ownership, feelings etc. It is all about him which is not to say he is a selfish child or has some kind of scary mental illness...just saying that he may not fully have those skills yet and indeed may not be able to ever fully take on that perspective depending on what is going on underneath all of this. He sounds like predicting consequences of his actions is really not something he can do yet. Do not assume that he is doing it for a reaction just because it GETS a reaction. It is likely he is not thinking before he does these things and he is just being impulsive and/or reactive to whatever is going on inside of him. The things you mention from when he is a baby/toddler.... again clues to this... this started along ago and he did not do those things on purpose... he didn't hold off on his speech/language to get attention or cause problems. ( I know you know this, just tying it all together) So the more recent behaviors may be really under the same bigger umbrella. This is just what hit me when I read your post. While ODD may be what his behaviors LOOK like right now, as you can see from most of us, it really does not help much. I agree that a full neuropsychologist evaluation, and an Occupational Therapist (OT) and Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) (with someone who works with kids who have "pragmatic" communication issues which is their word for social communication....make sure they have experience in this area because they are ALL trained in it to some degree just like, say, a dr. is trained in all medication areas a little bit ....but in the end everyone WORKS in their chosen specialty.) This way you will get a much better picture of what is really driving this. It sounds like he may have issues with impulse control, predicting consequences, taking perspectives, understanding the world around him, and the world around him may actually be uncomfortable if he has problems integrating sensory signals like sound, touch, smell, sights, and taste. Understanding these things is KEY to the treatment and parenting. Say for example a child who is deaf just grabs things, screams, pushes people out of the way to correct what he sees as wrong... punishing those behaviors is not going to help him get better. Though it would get him lots of attention and he may even like the attention, it is not what caused it. Once the hearing loss is found, and the child is given a way to communicate, then progress can be made. I hope that makes sense. It is such a HUGE puzzle to wade through and when you are living day to day with a child who is SOO challenging it can be really super frustrating. Even KNOWING what is driving things with my son I certainly do not handle things well all of the time. But we soldier on. You will too! You have many here who understand how hard this is and I am so glad you found us. I agree with all those who have offered ideas here for searching for answers... let us know how things are going and for sure come to share your frustrations. It really does help. EDIT: I added this after coming back from my rushed first response...had to get medications and breakfast so hadn't read thru everyone's responses much, sorry.... given this, in my humble opinion (and I did know of my son's bio brother having a diagnosis of autism too) I would TREAT it as autism given that will not hurt him, it will support his areas of weakness and not assume that he is in control of the behaviors. I would use very direct teaching methods, not assume he can pick things up...sure we can often stop our kids with a consequence or even get them to do something with a reward, but if we don't directly teach the skills and practice them they will not improve and in fact as you are seeing they will likely get worse in areas as they become more and more frustrated. I would use schedules, have routines, help him negotiate social things, honor his special interests and use them to teach, etc.. things you are probably already doing with your older Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) son. again, just MHO as you are going thru the diagnosis process. [/QUOTE]
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