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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 380310" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>You sure you don't live in our little Aussie village? The school district in our part of Sydney has been very obstructive, although most schools here are OK. But really, what you've been through sounds so sadly familiar.</p><p></p><p>First - I would advise you take the ODD label with a large shovel of salt. After what you and this kid have been through, it's no wonder he's being oppositional. After all, you have had to learn to be oppositional in order to get attention, haven't you?</p><p></p><p>ODD is a coping strategy for a kid who feels they have nowhere else to go.</p><p></p><p>Your son is NINE and still they're only SUGGESTING assessment for autism? What the...? I'm so angry for you. But in a lot of ways, you do seem to have doone what you could. You've also taken very good records. Absolutely vital.</p><p></p><p>OK, things for you to do for now:</p><p></p><p>1) Read 'The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. it's not a cure, but it can give you a different way of handling him that could resolve a lot of the ODD for you personally, at home. You could share these techniques with the school, or let them continue to struggle. No, that's not fair (much as I like the mental picture) - your son will suffer the more, if you don't help the school get it right. But do what you can at home, first.</p><p></p><p>2) If you're not already doing this, setup some level of effective two-way communication between you and the school. We used a communication book which travelled in difficult child 3's bag. I would write in it each morning and the school teacher would add her own notes. Between all of them, we got fast clues to early onset problems before they became huge hassles. We also had a record of what we had tried and what had not worked. These days a lot of [people use emails to and fro. But do make sure you include nice things too, so you don't all burn out with the negativity.</p><p></p><p>3) Don't blame prenatal stress or prenatal anything. These things happen and generally are more likely to be genetic. You commented on the stress his father was causing you - why? That could be relevant. </p><p></p><p>4) for a sneak preview on the possibility of autism in some form (umbrella term, Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)) go to <a href="http://www.childbrain.com" target="_blank">www.childbrain.com</a> and do their online Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) questionnaire. You can't use it to diagnose, but if you print it out (regardless of the results) then the printout can show a therapist or specialist the sort of things that are a concern for you. Run the test on his dad too, while you think of it.</p><p></p><p>There are some really good books which can give you some perspective on this.</p><p></p><p>I really hate the term "oppositional Defiant Disorder" because it sends a (wrong) message that the child is being deliberately obnoxious out of sheer cussedness and orneriness, purely to provoke you. The truth is almost the opposite - imagine you are desperately trying to communicate your needs to someone. You have a spike sticking into your leg. But you raise your hand in class and are told to sit down and behave. Your leg hurts even more. You are increasingly worried that something bad will happen if the teacher doesn't help get this spike out of your leg. But your increased desperation to communicate this receives even more firm "be quiet!" responses. The more frantic you get, the harsher the teacher gets. The teacher is desperately trying to keep order and to teach; you are an increasing distraction. As you can see, this can escalate on both sides.The end result - teaching is still disrupted, and you still have a spike in your leg. But now, both of you are angry and shouting at one another. "Why won't you listen to me?" is the cry on both sides.</p><p></p><p>This is not defiance. This is urgency and desperation. </p><p></p><p>What is driving the urgency? In other words, what is the spike in the leg, for your son? It's something in his head, something he has partly learned, and something he is wholly interested in, which he feels he must have. Identify this, and you have part of your solution.</p><p></p><p>The way too many adults deal with this kind of 'urgent' behaviour, is with increasing firmness. But this can pretty much create the problem of ODD. So how do you handle it? Not with increasing firmness, that's for sure. It may seem paradoxical, but the first place to start is to find what the child loves to do, feels he MUST do, and let him do it. To a point. Let him know that he has some access to something that will suffice. Use this as currency. Next step - don't try to correct everything all at once. Choose two things you desperately need, and try them. IF he is capable of complying, then the reduced number makes it more possible. But everything else has to be left off the "to do" list until he is ready to move to the next stage.</p><p></p><p>A desperate child (the spike in the leg again) who gets multiple, sometimes confusing, instructions (and multiple step instructions are a nightmare for the ADD-inatterntive kid, they can't remember past the first step) can hear, "sitdownbequietdon'ttalkdon'tputyourhandupshutupIsaidshutupgototheprincipalwhyaren'tyougoing?"</p><p></p><p>Is it any wonder they sometimes crawl under the desk and don't want to come out?</p><p></p><p>I have been where you are now. We are now doing well. Feel free to pick my brains. </p><p></p><p>I am also not the only one here who can help, who has been where you are. Help is here, grab on.</p><p></p><p>Welcome.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p><p></p><p>PS re the Special Education fight and getting the right help legally and morally - check out the Special Education forum. They are a mine of information on whose rear to kick.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 380310, member: 1991"] You sure you don't live in our little Aussie village? The school district in our part of Sydney has been very obstructive, although most schools here are OK. But really, what you've been through sounds so sadly familiar. First - I would advise you take the ODD label with a large shovel of salt. After what you and this kid have been through, it's no wonder he's being oppositional. After all, you have had to learn to be oppositional in order to get attention, haven't you? ODD is a coping strategy for a kid who feels they have nowhere else to go. Your son is NINE and still they're only SUGGESTING assessment for autism? What the...? I'm so angry for you. But in a lot of ways, you do seem to have doone what you could. You've also taken very good records. Absolutely vital. OK, things for you to do for now: 1) Read 'The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. it's not a cure, but it can give you a different way of handling him that could resolve a lot of the ODD for you personally, at home. You could share these techniques with the school, or let them continue to struggle. No, that's not fair (much as I like the mental picture) - your son will suffer the more, if you don't help the school get it right. But do what you can at home, first. 2) If you're not already doing this, setup some level of effective two-way communication between you and the school. We used a communication book which travelled in difficult child 3's bag. I would write in it each morning and the school teacher would add her own notes. Between all of them, we got fast clues to early onset problems before they became huge hassles. We also had a record of what we had tried and what had not worked. These days a lot of [people use emails to and fro. But do make sure you include nice things too, so you don't all burn out with the negativity. 3) Don't blame prenatal stress or prenatal anything. These things happen and generally are more likely to be genetic. You commented on the stress his father was causing you - why? That could be relevant. 4) for a sneak preview on the possibility of autism in some form (umbrella term, Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)) go to [url]www.childbrain.com[/url] and do their online Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) questionnaire. You can't use it to diagnose, but if you print it out (regardless of the results) then the printout can show a therapist or specialist the sort of things that are a concern for you. Run the test on his dad too, while you think of it. There are some really good books which can give you some perspective on this. I really hate the term "oppositional Defiant Disorder" because it sends a (wrong) message that the child is being deliberately obnoxious out of sheer cussedness and orneriness, purely to provoke you. The truth is almost the opposite - imagine you are desperately trying to communicate your needs to someone. You have a spike sticking into your leg. But you raise your hand in class and are told to sit down and behave. Your leg hurts even more. You are increasingly worried that something bad will happen if the teacher doesn't help get this spike out of your leg. But your increased desperation to communicate this receives even more firm "be quiet!" responses. The more frantic you get, the harsher the teacher gets. The teacher is desperately trying to keep order and to teach; you are an increasing distraction. As you can see, this can escalate on both sides.The end result - teaching is still disrupted, and you still have a spike in your leg. But now, both of you are angry and shouting at one another. "Why won't you listen to me?" is the cry on both sides. This is not defiance. This is urgency and desperation. What is driving the urgency? In other words, what is the spike in the leg, for your son? It's something in his head, something he has partly learned, and something he is wholly interested in, which he feels he must have. Identify this, and you have part of your solution. The way too many adults deal with this kind of 'urgent' behaviour, is with increasing firmness. But this can pretty much create the problem of ODD. So how do you handle it? Not with increasing firmness, that's for sure. It may seem paradoxical, but the first place to start is to find what the child loves to do, feels he MUST do, and let him do it. To a point. Let him know that he has some access to something that will suffice. Use this as currency. Next step - don't try to correct everything all at once. Choose two things you desperately need, and try them. IF he is capable of complying, then the reduced number makes it more possible. But everything else has to be left off the "to do" list until he is ready to move to the next stage. A desperate child (the spike in the leg again) who gets multiple, sometimes confusing, instructions (and multiple step instructions are a nightmare for the ADD-inatterntive kid, they can't remember past the first step) can hear, "sitdownbequietdon'ttalkdon'tputyourhandupshutupIsaidshutupgototheprincipalwhyaren'tyougoing?" Is it any wonder they sometimes crawl under the desk and don't want to come out? I have been where you are now. We are now doing well. Feel free to pick my brains. I am also not the only one here who can help, who has been where you are. Help is here, grab on. Welcome. Marg PS re the Special Education fight and getting the right help legally and morally - check out the Special Education forum. They are a mine of information on whose rear to kick. [/QUOTE]
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