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She got jumped in the bronx!!!
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 170086" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Bran, are you sure that what she told you happened, really did happen? If she is doing so many other things wrong, then surely it is possible she could also be spinning a huge lie about what has been going on? Plus, she took your knife from the kitchen, and that is YOUR knife. That knife had a purpose - to help prepare meals for the family. its purpose was NOT to be used to intimidate anyone nor should it have been used to upset you and make you worried. She owes you replacement for the knife, is what I['m saying.</p><p></p><p>I know it seems I'm harping about something irrelevant, insignificant under the circumstances, but it is a symptom of a bigger disease - she treated you, and the artefacts of home and nurturing, as disposable weapons of her own when they are not hers to abuse in tis way.</p><p></p><p>She is also hooking you right into her drama. She rang you and your reaction over the phone was to cry, and beg her to come home. You fed into her drama, in other words.</p><p></p><p>Mind you, it's very hard not to in the circumstances you were in. But I feel you need to now take a step back (now tat you have managed to buy yourself some time and breathing space) and consider the whole situation from a fresh and more distant point of view.</p><p></p><p>You have just had to do a difficult thing as a parent - you have had to put her somewhere safe where she doesn't want to be - and I think that was a very brave and effective thing to do.</p><p></p><p>But somewhere in there - I think she has had you hoodwinked. That's how she's been able to do this for so long, she knows how you will react when she says this, and does that. She's been playing you, I feel. (But she didn't expect this last bit - she underestimated you there).</p><p></p><p>So use this time, talk to a counsellor about what she's been doing and try to find out just how much truth (if any) there has been in her stories. WAS she really beaten up by three girls? DID the bloke throw the knife away? WAS there ever any bloke, or any girls? Or has this all been one big fantasy, or at least exaggeration, of hers purely for the drama and shock value?</p><p></p><p>I have seen my best friend struggle with this, with her daughter, over many years. On the one hand my friend now says she can't believe a word her daughter says, but on the other hand she gets suckered in to her lies again, every time. The look on her face when I say, "Stop! You just announced something as fact - but how sure are you? Who told you?"</p><p>She replies, "My daughter told me."</p><p>I remind her, "So this means it is 100&#37; true? THINK about your past experiences with her!"</p><p></p><p>My friend is highly intelligent, but she loves her daughter and as a result forgets that she can't be believed or trusted.</p><p></p><p>Imagine a scenario - you have a good friend you've been close to for years. Then your friend seems a bit distant one day. Another friend tells you, "She's angry with you because she blames you for losing her job. She told me you pushed her hard into taking a day off so you could go shopping together, her boss found out and sacked her."</p><p>You think, 'I didn't push her to come shopping that time, she suggested it. I didn't know she would lose her job over it. It's not fair she should be angry with me.' And next time you see your friend, your anger with her injustice is still simmering, so you are a bit cool as well. But polite. And no - it's not your imagination - she is definitely cold. You suggest dropping in in her for coffee and she cuts you short. "I'm very busy. Besides, having a cup of coffee would mean I would get no work done all morning, and I am very busy right now."</p><p></p><p>Time moves on, you and your now former best friend are getting more and more distant. You increasingly rely on your new best friend, the one who warned you what was happening.</p><p></p><p>But can you see what could be REALLY happening? Your new best friend is lying to you both to split up a good friendship. Your best friend didn't lose her job over your shopping trip - she resigned because she just wanted a break and wanted to work on a home business idea. She HAD planned to share the idea with you, but she had been told that you find coffee at her place to be boring and a waste of time. She felt hurt, hence she was cold and made a dig about not wanting to waste time with you, having coffee. But you totally missed the point.</p><p></p><p>It can start so simply, but it can build so easily. We trust people, but purely for their own purposes, people can manipulate us.</p><p></p><p>That is why, whenever we are told anything by one person only, we should either be sceptical or check out the story independently.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3 would come home from school and tell me someone had hit him. His teacher would have written in the book, "difficult child 3 hit Jake." But difficult child 3 would tell the mirror image story. Who do I believe? We would tend to believe the teacher. I would ask difficult child 3, "Did you hit Jake?" and because he is truthful, he would answer (eventually), "Yes, I did."</p><p></p><p>But I still would not have the true story.</p><p></p><p>Only when an independent witness to the whole incident comes forward, would I have the full story. The witness would say, "Jake was calling difficult child 3 names and telling him he was weird, he was stupid, nobody wanted to be his friend because he was 'a spastic retard'. difficult child 3 tried to turn his back, but Jake grabbed difficult child 3 by the arm to stop him from leaving. That's when difficult child 3 really put a lot of force into it and swung and punched Jake. And that's when the teacher came up and sent difficult child 3 to the principal's office."</p><p></p><p>It is sometimes so hard to know what the truth is, but sometimes it is much easier to identify a lie - because lies are inconsistent.</p><p></p><p>When girls fight, especially if they are fighting without weapons, they will leave marks. I've seen girls fighting (I went to an all-girls school) and I would rather see Mike Tyson bite off someone else's ear, than ever watch girls fight again. The girls' bathroom area was sprayed with blood and chunks of hair were strewn around. When I saw those girls later on, both had scratches to their faces and arms and their clothing was torn. But they were still spoiling for more fight - they would have too, if there hadn't been two fences between them.</p><p></p><p>You have done the right thing with your daughter.</p><p>If she WAS telling you the truth, she is a danger to others if not herself. </p><p>If she was lying to you, she is a danger to herself, and probably others.</p><p></p><p>In both cases, she is a danger to you and your family.</p><p></p><p>But do try and identify the truth in this - I think you need to, for your own sake if not your family's and your daughter's. And try to not let her get you so angry (or upset) that you show HER how you feel.</p><p></p><p>Detach, detach, detach.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 170086, member: 1991"] Bran, are you sure that what she told you happened, really did happen? If she is doing so many other things wrong, then surely it is possible she could also be spinning a huge lie about what has been going on? Plus, she took your knife from the kitchen, and that is YOUR knife. That knife had a purpose - to help prepare meals for the family. its purpose was NOT to be used to intimidate anyone nor should it have been used to upset you and make you worried. She owes you replacement for the knife, is what I['m saying. I know it seems I'm harping about something irrelevant, insignificant under the circumstances, but it is a symptom of a bigger disease - she treated you, and the artefacts of home and nurturing, as disposable weapons of her own when they are not hers to abuse in tis way. She is also hooking you right into her drama. She rang you and your reaction over the phone was to cry, and beg her to come home. You fed into her drama, in other words. Mind you, it's very hard not to in the circumstances you were in. But I feel you need to now take a step back (now tat you have managed to buy yourself some time and breathing space) and consider the whole situation from a fresh and more distant point of view. You have just had to do a difficult thing as a parent - you have had to put her somewhere safe where she doesn't want to be - and I think that was a very brave and effective thing to do. But somewhere in there - I think she has had you hoodwinked. That's how she's been able to do this for so long, she knows how you will react when she says this, and does that. She's been playing you, I feel. (But she didn't expect this last bit - she underestimated you there). So use this time, talk to a counsellor about what she's been doing and try to find out just how much truth (if any) there has been in her stories. WAS she really beaten up by three girls? DID the bloke throw the knife away? WAS there ever any bloke, or any girls? Or has this all been one big fantasy, or at least exaggeration, of hers purely for the drama and shock value? I have seen my best friend struggle with this, with her daughter, over many years. On the one hand my friend now says she can't believe a word her daughter says, but on the other hand she gets suckered in to her lies again, every time. The look on her face when I say, "Stop! You just announced something as fact - but how sure are you? Who told you?" She replies, "My daughter told me." I remind her, "So this means it is 100% true? THINK about your past experiences with her!" My friend is highly intelligent, but she loves her daughter and as a result forgets that she can't be believed or trusted. Imagine a scenario - you have a good friend you've been close to for years. Then your friend seems a bit distant one day. Another friend tells you, "She's angry with you because she blames you for losing her job. She told me you pushed her hard into taking a day off so you could go shopping together, her boss found out and sacked her." You think, 'I didn't push her to come shopping that time, she suggested it. I didn't know she would lose her job over it. It's not fair she should be angry with me.' And next time you see your friend, your anger with her injustice is still simmering, so you are a bit cool as well. But polite. And no - it's not your imagination - she is definitely cold. You suggest dropping in in her for coffee and she cuts you short. "I'm very busy. Besides, having a cup of coffee would mean I would get no work done all morning, and I am very busy right now." Time moves on, you and your now former best friend are getting more and more distant. You increasingly rely on your new best friend, the one who warned you what was happening. But can you see what could be REALLY happening? Your new best friend is lying to you both to split up a good friendship. Your best friend didn't lose her job over your shopping trip - she resigned because she just wanted a break and wanted to work on a home business idea. She HAD planned to share the idea with you, but she had been told that you find coffee at her place to be boring and a waste of time. She felt hurt, hence she was cold and made a dig about not wanting to waste time with you, having coffee. But you totally missed the point. It can start so simply, but it can build so easily. We trust people, but purely for their own purposes, people can manipulate us. That is why, whenever we are told anything by one person only, we should either be sceptical or check out the story independently. difficult child 3 would come home from school and tell me someone had hit him. His teacher would have written in the book, "difficult child 3 hit Jake." But difficult child 3 would tell the mirror image story. Who do I believe? We would tend to believe the teacher. I would ask difficult child 3, "Did you hit Jake?" and because he is truthful, he would answer (eventually), "Yes, I did." But I still would not have the true story. Only when an independent witness to the whole incident comes forward, would I have the full story. The witness would say, "Jake was calling difficult child 3 names and telling him he was weird, he was stupid, nobody wanted to be his friend because he was 'a spastic retard'. difficult child 3 tried to turn his back, but Jake grabbed difficult child 3 by the arm to stop him from leaving. That's when difficult child 3 really put a lot of force into it and swung and punched Jake. And that's when the teacher came up and sent difficult child 3 to the principal's office." It is sometimes so hard to know what the truth is, but sometimes it is much easier to identify a lie - because lies are inconsistent. When girls fight, especially if they are fighting without weapons, they will leave marks. I've seen girls fighting (I went to an all-girls school) and I would rather see Mike Tyson bite off someone else's ear, than ever watch girls fight again. The girls' bathroom area was sprayed with blood and chunks of hair were strewn around. When I saw those girls later on, both had scratches to their faces and arms and their clothing was torn. But they were still spoiling for more fight - they would have too, if there hadn't been two fences between them. You have done the right thing with your daughter. If she WAS telling you the truth, she is a danger to others if not herself. If she was lying to you, she is a danger to herself, and probably others. In both cases, she is a danger to you and your family. But do try and identify the truth in this - I think you need to, for your own sake if not your family's and your daughter's. And try to not let her get you so angry (or upset) that you show HER how you feel. Detach, detach, detach. Marg [/QUOTE]
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