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*Sigh* need advice regarding Copper (LONG)
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<blockquote data-quote="Star*" data-source="post: 152981" data-attributes="member: 4964"><p>BBK - I'm so sorry you are hurting. </p><p> </p><p>I have read the other responses and completely and utterly understand each persons response. So I'm not going to agree or disagree with anyone. I almost put this to PM, but then decided I also am part of this family and my opinions while different are based on MY life experiences. So here we all are in your living room with our own ideas of what color you should paint the walls and why. So to speak. </p><p> </p><p>You know I'm adopted. I have NO CLUE who my biological relatives are. Despite having totally awesome parents, and no matter how much I say I don't want to know I believe there is some sort of intrinsic gene that says "You don't know who you are." On a psychological level I now know with certainty through years of therapy and peeling back layers of my life that it DID in fact have a bearing on the person I became, the choices I made and the way I even react to posts here on the board. </p><p> </p><p>I will be the FIRST to tell you that while I think that story of Dave Thomas, rising from the depths of despair and creating an empire known as Wendy's is a fascinating and goal-oriented tale - it doesn't happen that way too often. BECAUSE of that nagging gene that says "Who am I really?" and the way it effects our sub-conscious. That relates to daily life and brings me to the situation at hand. </p><p> </p><p>There are a lot of behind the scenes elements happening in this situation. First we have you. A self-admitted very young party girl in her youth who despite great odds graduated, and pregnant and had more than one partner who could be the father of your child. We have J with his close set eyes and he was also young. We have K with his distinctive looks also young. We have Copper. </p><p> </p><p>You say you counted and were certain despite the times there is no way K could be the father. Well - it is possible. I was ONLY ever with my husband. I got pregnant, counted the due date, recalculated the due date, and was positive without a doubt when the cupcakes should come out of my easy bake oven. Imagine MY and everyone elses surprise when he came 3 weeks earlier than calculated. And I was told it was rare - but predicting a birth is not an exact science. I was heartbroken because he would have been born on my Dad's or Moms birthday. They couldnt put him back so here is is. </p><p> </p><p>So that's fact #1 disspelled. Birth dates are rarely positive. </p><p> </p><p>Based on your calculations of you and J being together - you sumised he was, but let it go. And that left Copper with a big old load of wonder. DNA testing wasn't even heard of in the 80's and if it was it was expensive. Who was going to do that when you counted? I wouldn't have either. </p><p> </p><p>Because Copper was so hurt, and you love her you figured against hope that there was a chance J would be a father. At 13 years after the fact - and while having been married, and made to be responsible for 2 children - he agreed to see you and meet Copper. He didn't offer to go for DNA, you never asked and I think had you had lunch with the jolly green giant and brought a desperate child into the picture she would have said "OH yes, a daddy." but you had an idea that he was Copper's Dad. And not all kids look like their parents. Dude looks like me. If you hold pictures of Satan up next to Dudes - you see horns, pitchfork and maybe around the eyes but not much else to validate that he's the SOS Know what I mean?? I'd more prefer that he's the Son of ME and his own person. And I know for a fact who his Dad was. And whatever nationality I am -apparently at that time in space Dude was swimming in the good looks and funny end of the gene pool. </p><p> </p><p>Fact #2 disspelled. Children do not always resemble their biological fathers (despite the horns) which I am SURE are from the paternal side. </p><p> </p><p>And you tell me about J not wanting to be Coppers daddy anymore. I know why you didn't hunt him down for child support. Same reason I never asked Dudes spermdonor. Because they wouldn't anyway and it would just add MORE frustration to your life going back and forth to court. Totally get that. Rules today and things are different - back then you were "lucky" to get child support. Today it's your right. When J left it took a BIG part of Copper. She had years (13) to build up in her mind what a knight on a white horse would be and in a child's mind with their coping ability I would venture to say she had it all figured out that EVERYTHING bad in her life would just be wisked away when the DADDY got there. Kids of divorcee's who have no involvement do the same thing. It's like having the parent and the Disney parent who sees you every other week and gives you guilt presents. OF COURSE he's going to seem like a demi-GOD to her and you of course being the disciplinarian are the hag. I'm a Hag too- but I'm good at being a parent. </p><p> </p><p>Disspell rumor #3 - J would not take a DNA test, not pay support, NOT be the daddy Copper had built him up to be and leave her with a hole in her life. </p><p> </p><p>So that was and has been the way it is for Copper and she's grown up with predictable issues. In as much as daddy absent, daddy build up in her mind, daddy IS, daddy gone, child left with huge hole and why me issuses. Self esteem took a pretty big hit. But who could have predicted J would be such a dork - other than the fact that I don't think even J every thought Copper was his. And THAT led to him saying he had no more time for her. </p><p> </p><p>Now enter K. You find a picture, and Copper resembles him. He recently finds out after 20 years that he COULD BE a daddy and seems that if he wasn't interested -he would have kept THAT little tid bit to himself and not said "You know I COULD be that child's Dad." but HOW after this long do you approach a woman you kinda knew when you were REALLY young and say "I never knew." I mean he could be thinking HE was the ONLY one you slept with and you just didn't tell him. Or he could have known about J and figured when you didn't say OKAY everyone in the hospital - it could be YOU (point to J) or YOU (point to K) -oh come on who seriously would do that as a teen? Yes - I'd want everyone to know I slept around and drag a 2 guys in to identify a dad. PFT. YEah - NOT. (you minx) lol</p><p> </p><p>If you never told Copper - and K WAS her Father how sad it would be that neither of them met and discovered how much they are alike. Or they could meet and be nothing alike. Or they could meet and he could be a good thing that is missing in her life or they could meet and he could be the WORST thing - maybe worse than J? But what if they did meet, he was her real father, he spent the rest of his life trying to make up for lost time with a daughter he never new about? </p><p> </p><p>I know I can tell you that I still at 43 and with great parents every now and then wonder - if someone resembling me walking towards me is going to say "Hi are you Star? I'm your bio-dad." I think at my age despite being curious about family, siblings and the why of my life (why was I given up) the rest doesn't matter any more. I am who I am because I made myself be the person I am today. And I wonder still would it enhance my life to know, would it be some awful uneducated, back woods, dumpy,mean, alcoholic, illiterate people that I'm from? Because I'm not like that - I'm smart, educated, caring and have a few quirks, but how would knowing that I came from people like that effect me now. Because it would. All that I have dealt with and worked out in my life would change. What if a limousine pulled up and a very rich man got out and said "Darling, I'm your Daddy - her's a billion, I just found out about you, I love you, here's a donkey farm." (stop laughing it COULD happen) but see - even at 43 I'm able to conjure up images of what if. </p><p> </p><p>So with K - what harm could come from talking to him alone and telling him that he could be Copper's father. So what. It happened. Is his family decent? Did he grow up to be a decent person? Is he open to the idea of having a grown daughter after all these years? I think if you answered yes to those - meet him - ask him to take that over the counter DNA test from the drug store. It's like $30 bucks. You don't have to tell Copper a thing - tell her you're all doing that National Geographic thing One Family. </p><p> </p><p>If he's not a decent man, he has interest in her after finding out she exists, then you are only picking the lesser of 2 evils you're in a spot. In this scenario Copper and you have nothing to gain other than finding out she could have been the daughter of 1 of 2 men - the first was a dud and the 2nd is maybe worst. </p><p> </p><p>I guess my first question to you is - IS K a decent person, is he responsible? Is his family good and open minded. If so then I think you and K are mature enough to meet, do this test and decide where to go from there. I would lay all my cards on the table, be honest and open with him about what has happened with J and Copper and explain for her sake you can't put her through that again. </p><p> </p><p>You don't have an easy task ahead of you, but I guess the biggest question is - HOW honest do you want to be and at what cost? </p><p> </p><p>Can you see yourself on your death bed telling Copper "there's a chance your dad is......." Is this something that is going to eat you up for years? If you knew with 100&#37; certainty that J was Copper's Dad this would all go away and be nothing. Let's say you do the test and K is the dad and he's worse than J - what is to be gained by copper knowing her "real" dad. WOuld he stick around or is he like J? Would it make a difference if Copper knew who her bio father was with 100% certainty even IF he's not a good supportive father? I guess to some it would. But then you would have the task of looking at Copper and saying "remember when you wanted a dad at 13 and I introduced you to J and he left you? well I met K and he's not any better but he's your real bio dad." </p><p> </p><p>Whatever you need friend to help you work through this - I'm there. Actually in my little Cinderella world - my bio parents are dead and just leave me cash and I go buy my OWN donkey farm. </p><p> </p><p>Hugs</p><p>Star</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Star*, post: 152981, member: 4964"] BBK - I'm so sorry you are hurting. I have read the other responses and completely and utterly understand each persons response. So I'm not going to agree or disagree with anyone. I almost put this to PM, but then decided I also am part of this family and my opinions while different are based on MY life experiences. So here we all are in your living room with our own ideas of what color you should paint the walls and why. So to speak. You know I'm adopted. I have NO CLUE who my biological relatives are. Despite having totally awesome parents, and no matter how much I say I don't want to know I believe there is some sort of intrinsic gene that says "You don't know who you are." On a psychological level I now know with certainty through years of therapy and peeling back layers of my life that it DID in fact have a bearing on the person I became, the choices I made and the way I even react to posts here on the board. I will be the FIRST to tell you that while I think that story of Dave Thomas, rising from the depths of despair and creating an empire known as Wendy's is a fascinating and goal-oriented tale - it doesn't happen that way too often. BECAUSE of that nagging gene that says "Who am I really?" and the way it effects our sub-conscious. That relates to daily life and brings me to the situation at hand. There are a lot of behind the scenes elements happening in this situation. First we have you. A self-admitted very young party girl in her youth who despite great odds graduated, and pregnant and had more than one partner who could be the father of your child. We have J with his close set eyes and he was also young. We have K with his distinctive looks also young. We have Copper. You say you counted and were certain despite the times there is no way K could be the father. Well - it is possible. I was ONLY ever with my husband. I got pregnant, counted the due date, recalculated the due date, and was positive without a doubt when the cupcakes should come out of my easy bake oven. Imagine MY and everyone elses surprise when he came 3 weeks earlier than calculated. And I was told it was rare - but predicting a birth is not an exact science. I was heartbroken because he would have been born on my Dad's or Moms birthday. They couldnt put him back so here is is. So that's fact #1 disspelled. Birth dates are rarely positive. Based on your calculations of you and J being together - you sumised he was, but let it go. And that left Copper with a big old load of wonder. DNA testing wasn't even heard of in the 80's and if it was it was expensive. Who was going to do that when you counted? I wouldn't have either. Because Copper was so hurt, and you love her you figured against hope that there was a chance J would be a father. At 13 years after the fact - and while having been married, and made to be responsible for 2 children - he agreed to see you and meet Copper. He didn't offer to go for DNA, you never asked and I think had you had lunch with the jolly green giant and brought a desperate child into the picture she would have said "OH yes, a daddy." but you had an idea that he was Copper's Dad. And not all kids look like their parents. Dude looks like me. If you hold pictures of Satan up next to Dudes - you see horns, pitchfork and maybe around the eyes but not much else to validate that he's the SOS Know what I mean?? I'd more prefer that he's the Son of ME and his own person. And I know for a fact who his Dad was. And whatever nationality I am -apparently at that time in space Dude was swimming in the good looks and funny end of the gene pool. Fact #2 disspelled. Children do not always resemble their biological fathers (despite the horns) which I am SURE are from the paternal side. And you tell me about J not wanting to be Coppers daddy anymore. I know why you didn't hunt him down for child support. Same reason I never asked Dudes spermdonor. Because they wouldn't anyway and it would just add MORE frustration to your life going back and forth to court. Totally get that. Rules today and things are different - back then you were "lucky" to get child support. Today it's your right. When J left it took a BIG part of Copper. She had years (13) to build up in her mind what a knight on a white horse would be and in a child's mind with their coping ability I would venture to say she had it all figured out that EVERYTHING bad in her life would just be wisked away when the DADDY got there. Kids of divorcee's who have no involvement do the same thing. It's like having the parent and the Disney parent who sees you every other week and gives you guilt presents. OF COURSE he's going to seem like a demi-GOD to her and you of course being the disciplinarian are the hag. I'm a Hag too- but I'm good at being a parent. Disspell rumor #3 - J would not take a DNA test, not pay support, NOT be the daddy Copper had built him up to be and leave her with a hole in her life. So that was and has been the way it is for Copper and she's grown up with predictable issues. In as much as daddy absent, daddy build up in her mind, daddy IS, daddy gone, child left with huge hole and why me issuses. Self esteem took a pretty big hit. But who could have predicted J would be such a dork - other than the fact that I don't think even J every thought Copper was his. And THAT led to him saying he had no more time for her. Now enter K. You find a picture, and Copper resembles him. He recently finds out after 20 years that he COULD BE a daddy and seems that if he wasn't interested -he would have kept THAT little tid bit to himself and not said "You know I COULD be that child's Dad." but HOW after this long do you approach a woman you kinda knew when you were REALLY young and say "I never knew." I mean he could be thinking HE was the ONLY one you slept with and you just didn't tell him. Or he could have known about J and figured when you didn't say OKAY everyone in the hospital - it could be YOU (point to J) or YOU (point to K) -oh come on who seriously would do that as a teen? Yes - I'd want everyone to know I slept around and drag a 2 guys in to identify a dad. PFT. YEah - NOT. (you minx) lol If you never told Copper - and K WAS her Father how sad it would be that neither of them met and discovered how much they are alike. Or they could meet and be nothing alike. Or they could meet and he could be a good thing that is missing in her life or they could meet and he could be the WORST thing - maybe worse than J? But what if they did meet, he was her real father, he spent the rest of his life trying to make up for lost time with a daughter he never new about? I know I can tell you that I still at 43 and with great parents every now and then wonder - if someone resembling me walking towards me is going to say "Hi are you Star? I'm your bio-dad." I think at my age despite being curious about family, siblings and the why of my life (why was I given up) the rest doesn't matter any more. I am who I am because I made myself be the person I am today. And I wonder still would it enhance my life to know, would it be some awful uneducated, back woods, dumpy,mean, alcoholic, illiterate people that I'm from? Because I'm not like that - I'm smart, educated, caring and have a few quirks, but how would knowing that I came from people like that effect me now. Because it would. All that I have dealt with and worked out in my life would change. What if a limousine pulled up and a very rich man got out and said "Darling, I'm your Daddy - her's a billion, I just found out about you, I love you, here's a donkey farm." (stop laughing it COULD happen) but see - even at 43 I'm able to conjure up images of what if. So with K - what harm could come from talking to him alone and telling him that he could be Copper's father. So what. It happened. Is his family decent? Did he grow up to be a decent person? Is he open to the idea of having a grown daughter after all these years? I think if you answered yes to those - meet him - ask him to take that over the counter DNA test from the drug store. It's like $30 bucks. You don't have to tell Copper a thing - tell her you're all doing that National Geographic thing One Family. If he's not a decent man, he has interest in her after finding out she exists, then you are only picking the lesser of 2 evils you're in a spot. In this scenario Copper and you have nothing to gain other than finding out she could have been the daughter of 1 of 2 men - the first was a dud and the 2nd is maybe worst. I guess my first question to you is - IS K a decent person, is he responsible? Is his family good and open minded. If so then I think you and K are mature enough to meet, do this test and decide where to go from there. I would lay all my cards on the table, be honest and open with him about what has happened with J and Copper and explain for her sake you can't put her through that again. You don't have an easy task ahead of you, but I guess the biggest question is - HOW honest do you want to be and at what cost? Can you see yourself on your death bed telling Copper "there's a chance your dad is......." Is this something that is going to eat you up for years? If you knew with 100% certainty that J was Copper's Dad this would all go away and be nothing. Let's say you do the test and K is the dad and he's worse than J - what is to be gained by copper knowing her "real" dad. WOuld he stick around or is he like J? Would it make a difference if Copper knew who her bio father was with 100% certainty even IF he's not a good supportive father? I guess to some it would. But then you would have the task of looking at Copper and saying "remember when you wanted a dad at 13 and I introduced you to J and he left you? well I met K and he's not any better but he's your real bio dad." Whatever you need friend to help you work through this - I'm there. Actually in my little Cinderella world - my bio parents are dead and just leave me cash and I go buy my OWN donkey farm. Hugs Star [/QUOTE]
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