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<blockquote data-quote="recoveringenabler" data-source="post: 614482" data-attributes="member: 13542"><p>The truth is easier Cedar. We finally have arrived at a place where it is safe enough to tell the truth. Bravo. I am very proud of you for having said NO to your son. </p><p></p><p>Being angry is the appropriate and healthy response to have. Both of your children have been nasty to you and husband. If you weren't feeling guilty, you would have been angry long ago. The most important piece for you now is to know that <strong>you and husband didn't do anything wrong</strong>. Keep repeating that to yourself. Write little signs with that statement on it and place them all over the house. I remember when I came to that conclusion, it was when I got through my own shame, the shame of <em>something is wrong with me</em> and the never ending <em>payments</em> I made because I believed that to be true. It was like a new thought, I kept saying it over and over, and when I told my therapist, she said, "<em>YAY, it's about time.</em>" </p><p></p><p>Cedar, if you and husband stopped comparing yourself to other parents and stop comparing your kids with "regular" kids and threw that guilt overboard the truth of the situation would be apparent and you would not CAVE and give in. The only reason you would cave is because you and husband still feel guilty. Stop feeling guilty. Stop feeling shame. Get mad. You are being used.</p><p></p><p>Your son's fragile self esteem is his problem. Didn't you have to grow up and leave home and figure out a way to have a life separate from how you were treated? I did too. We made it on our own. Let your son <strong>and</strong> daughter do the same. </p><p></p><p>I am honored to have been a part of you changing the pattern with your children. As I listen to you and try to find words to say to you, it strengthens my own resolve, makes my choices clearer, deepens my understanding that I did indeed, do the right thing. As I have said many times Cedar, detaching from my daughter has been the hardest most devastating thing I have ever had to do. I so get how you and husband feel. </p><p></p><p>I do believe that the only way we can see through the FOG is to have some other person who is not connected in the family, to keep telling us the truth. In addition to two therapists, a group of other parents, and this forum, SO was a huge component of my healing. He is not, like your husband, invested in my daughter, or my mother, and because he could see the truth and stood by me, continuing to tell the truth, eventually I GOT IT. I think perhaps I am that truth teller for you. If we don't have that other person, I am not sure getting out of the FOG is even possible. That's why I ALWAYS tell parents to seek help. </p><p></p><p>We are all so mired in our own stuff, our own guilt, shame, fear, perfectionism and our images of how we SHOULD be parenting, that it is almost impossible to see the truth of who our kids are. It breaks our hearts and causes an immense amount of suffering. However, if you don't see the truth, the amount of suffering that will continue endlessly and in fact continue to get much worse while we stay stuck in being victims of our adult kids is MONUMENTAL. I believe, it'll kill us, take all of our money, joy, our very life force and for what? So when we are dead, our kids will find another host to be a parasite to. <em>We all need to wake up.</em></p><p></p><p>Yes, I remember telling my daughter the truth too. It got easier after that. Even though there was more stuff, it was smoother.</p><p></p><p>While I was reading Brene Brown's book on shame, I had jury duty and it was in the same courthouse as where my daughter and I had mediation about my granddaughter, where her mother in law brought charges against her for neglect, where I had to go continually to fight my daughter for custody...............I sat outside that courtroom and felt all the devastation that my daughter has brought to my doorstep. Not the joy and pride that other parents have, but the cruelty, the blame, the constant and unrelenting needs, the meanness to me, the disregard of me, the complete lack of being able to see me, hear me or know I had any value..................I left the courthouse at break, called husband from my car and just broke down crying in the parking lot. All the years of that abuse from my own child was apparent, the truth had finally seeped through. There was more after that, but that was the day I stopped feeling guilty and made the distinction between guilt and the shame inside me that allowed ANYONE to treat me the way my daughter had. I have changed completely now and what is very interesting is that my daughter treats me differently now. She never asks for anything from me. The power shifted, I ceased to be a victim of her because I felt guilty or ashamed, now I have my power back, I can see the truth and I can state the truth and my boundaries easily. What she does with any of it is NOT MY PROBLEM. I broke the chains that bound me. And, like you, I had to go deep inside to do it too. It was not all about my daughter, it was about me and my own lack of self esteem. Put your focus on <strong>your </strong>self esteem and don't allow your kids to harm you. That will shift everything.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #000000">"t</span><span style="color: #0000cd">his only works because he feels guilty to start with, and so, the kids feel entitled."</span></p><p><span style="color: #0000cd"></span></p><p><span style="color: #0000cd"></span>There you have it, your part in it. Same for me. Those parents you sometimes speak of who can walk away? They may feel a little guilt, but they do not feel SHAME the way we do. That shame allows many people to do a bunch of nasty stuff to us and we stay in our victimhood because we believe we deserve it and they are right. But, that is not the truth Cedar, you and husband don't deserve this at all. And just for the record, you don't deserve the bad treatment from your sister either. Let Bad Cedar go at her! In fact, just let Bad Cedar reign for awhile, until she is incorporated and integrated within you so you can utilize her wisdom and ability to tell it like it really is. She is the real you. (like now my granddaughter says to me, "you are so different now Grammy, I liked you better when you gave in all the time!!! HA HA! <strong>I like this me better!!</strong> And, interestingly, she is much more of an adult now, kinder and takes responsibility for herself)</p><p></p><p> You deserve to spend your money on YOUR JOY and YOUR HAPPINESS and YOUR FUN. Not your ungrateful, entitled kids.</p><p></p><p>Last year I spent $10,000 on my daughter. This year, nothing. Take some of that money you and husband were going to spend on your son or your daughter and go away for the weekend and don't answer the phone. Start your own lives, your kids have robbed enough of your lives now. My SO and I go on a road trip almost every weekend. We go to the coast, or to the mountains, or to the city, walk around, have lunch, have easy days. One day a week and yet it means so much to us. It's like your one hour a day years ago listening to Dean and having Manhattans. Start to focus on what you guys want. Do something every single day that makes you happy and gives you pleasure. I practice this every single day. It takes a little time to get over what our kids have done and what we have allowed them to do. Start today to bring pleasure back into your lives....................Sending you big hugs Cedar. Good job.<span style="color: #0000cd"></span></p><p><span style="color: #0000cd"></span><span style="color: #000000"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="recoveringenabler, post: 614482, member: 13542"] The truth is easier Cedar. We finally have arrived at a place where it is safe enough to tell the truth. Bravo. I am very proud of you for having said NO to your son. Being angry is the appropriate and healthy response to have. Both of your children have been nasty to you and husband. If you weren't feeling guilty, you would have been angry long ago. The most important piece for you now is to know that [B]you and husband didn't do anything wrong[/B]. Keep repeating that to yourself. Write little signs with that statement on it and place them all over the house. I remember when I came to that conclusion, it was when I got through my own shame, the shame of [I]something is wrong with me[/I] and the never ending [I]payments[/I] I made because I believed that to be true. It was like a new thought, I kept saying it over and over, and when I told my therapist, she said, "[I]YAY, it's about time.[/I]" Cedar, if you and husband stopped comparing yourself to other parents and stop comparing your kids with "regular" kids and threw that guilt overboard the truth of the situation would be apparent and you would not CAVE and give in. The only reason you would cave is because you and husband still feel guilty. Stop feeling guilty. Stop feeling shame. Get mad. You are being used. Your son's fragile self esteem is his problem. Didn't you have to grow up and leave home and figure out a way to have a life separate from how you were treated? I did too. We made it on our own. Let your son [B]and[/B] daughter do the same. I am honored to have been a part of you changing the pattern with your children. As I listen to you and try to find words to say to you, it strengthens my own resolve, makes my choices clearer, deepens my understanding that I did indeed, do the right thing. As I have said many times Cedar, detaching from my daughter has been the hardest most devastating thing I have ever had to do. I so get how you and husband feel. I do believe that the only way we can see through the FOG is to have some other person who is not connected in the family, to keep telling us the truth. In addition to two therapists, a group of other parents, and this forum, SO was a huge component of my healing. He is not, like your husband, invested in my daughter, or my mother, and because he could see the truth and stood by me, continuing to tell the truth, eventually I GOT IT. I think perhaps I am that truth teller for you. If we don't have that other person, I am not sure getting out of the FOG is even possible. That's why I ALWAYS tell parents to seek help. We are all so mired in our own stuff, our own guilt, shame, fear, perfectionism and our images of how we SHOULD be parenting, that it is almost impossible to see the truth of who our kids are. It breaks our hearts and causes an immense amount of suffering. However, if you don't see the truth, the amount of suffering that will continue endlessly and in fact continue to get much worse while we stay stuck in being victims of our adult kids is MONUMENTAL. I believe, it'll kill us, take all of our money, joy, our very life force and for what? So when we are dead, our kids will find another host to be a parasite to. [I]We all need to wake up.[/I] Yes, I remember telling my daughter the truth too. It got easier after that. Even though there was more stuff, it was smoother. While I was reading Brene Brown's book on shame, I had jury duty and it was in the same courthouse as where my daughter and I had mediation about my granddaughter, where her mother in law brought charges against her for neglect, where I had to go continually to fight my daughter for custody...............I sat outside that courtroom and felt all the devastation that my daughter has brought to my doorstep. Not the joy and pride that other parents have, but the cruelty, the blame, the constant and unrelenting needs, the meanness to me, the disregard of me, the complete lack of being able to see me, hear me or know I had any value..................I left the courthouse at break, called husband from my car and just broke down crying in the parking lot. All the years of that abuse from my own child was apparent, the truth had finally seeped through. There was more after that, but that was the day I stopped feeling guilty and made the distinction between guilt and the shame inside me that allowed ANYONE to treat me the way my daughter had. I have changed completely now and what is very interesting is that my daughter treats me differently now. She never asks for anything from me. The power shifted, I ceased to be a victim of her because I felt guilty or ashamed, now I have my power back, I can see the truth and I can state the truth and my boundaries easily. What she does with any of it is NOT MY PROBLEM. I broke the chains that bound me. And, like you, I had to go deep inside to do it too. It was not all about my daughter, it was about me and my own lack of self esteem. Put your focus on [B]your [/B]self esteem and don't allow your kids to harm you. That will shift everything. [COLOR=#000000]"t[/COLOR][COLOR=#0000cd]his only works because he feels guilty to start with, and so, the kids feel entitled." [/COLOR]There you have it, your part in it. Same for me. Those parents you sometimes speak of who can walk away? They may feel a little guilt, but they do not feel SHAME the way we do. That shame allows many people to do a bunch of nasty stuff to us and we stay in our victimhood because we believe we deserve it and they are right. But, that is not the truth Cedar, you and husband don't deserve this at all. And just for the record, you don't deserve the bad treatment from your sister either. Let Bad Cedar go at her! In fact, just let Bad Cedar reign for awhile, until she is incorporated and integrated within you so you can utilize her wisdom and ability to tell it like it really is. She is the real you. (like now my granddaughter says to me, "you are so different now Grammy, I liked you better when you gave in all the time!!! HA HA! [B]I like this me better!![/B] And, interestingly, she is much more of an adult now, kinder and takes responsibility for herself) You deserve to spend your money on YOUR JOY and YOUR HAPPINESS and YOUR FUN. Not your ungrateful, entitled kids. Last year I spent $10,000 on my daughter. This year, nothing. Take some of that money you and husband were going to spend on your son or your daughter and go away for the weekend and don't answer the phone. Start your own lives, your kids have robbed enough of your lives now. My SO and I go on a road trip almost every weekend. We go to the coast, or to the mountains, or to the city, walk around, have lunch, have easy days. One day a week and yet it means so much to us. It's like your one hour a day years ago listening to Dean and having Manhattans. Start to focus on what you guys want. Do something every single day that makes you happy and gives you pleasure. I practice this every single day. It takes a little time to get over what our kids have done and what we have allowed them to do. Start today to bring pleasure back into your lives....................Sending you big hugs Cedar. Good job.[COLOR=#0000cd] [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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