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stealing, lying
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<blockquote data-quote="Star*" data-source="post: 377882" data-attributes="member: 4964"><p>Hi done dad - </p><p> </p><p>I've read your story and WOW.....certainly a lot of heartache there. A lot of denial too huh? There are so many things going on in your house it's a small wonder you have stayed on as long as you have so I applaud you for your strength and courage, but mostly for your love of family. I think anyone could stay - you choose to stay. That says quite a lot about your character and willingness to keep your family together. Quite a rare quality in men these days. </p><p> </p><p>That said maybe I can shed a little light on things from a few angles. I'm a former abused and battered woman. The reasons a woman stays in an abusive relationship are more of a mystery to her than they are to the people that love her. (scoffs) Odd huh? See you can see that this is a bad relationship for her. She may KNOW it is, but chooses to stay. You can say things like "looser, worthless, no account" and to her? Oh boy oh boy you have just solidified that relationship 10 fold. Why? Well there's a cycle of abuse and it's something that anyone can understand, there are reasons that a woman will stay in a relationship and stages to the "why she stays" part and it's complex, and that's the part that gets convoluted for a lot of women. At first we stay because we believe what they tell us - we suffer from some kind of self-esteem issues, or lack of self worth. NOT self-confidence. I was one of the most self confidant people you would ever meet. Couldnt' be done? I COULD DO IT and would. Tenacity of a pit bull. But self esteem and self-confidence? Two different things. So somewhere in your daughters belief system she suffers from lack of self esteem or self worth BUT has NO idea. Personally for me? I was adopted and had no idea I had issues with it. She may have not been picked for high school prom queen or team captain or something seemingly trivial. But it's there. So when these guys come around with their lines - WE buy it hook line and sinker because they make us feel SO good. You just can't believe what a boost it is to our self esteem. HERE is everyone - all the women and HE singled ME out. THIS important minute was MINE - NOT hers, NOT her.....not even HER. BUT ME. So that's the start. Secondly? He may be the bad apple - a little dangerous and we think we can change them. Then we believe our LOVE will conquer all. I mean after all - THEY PICKED US....over everyone else.......they picked us - so WE can work miracles. And so it goes in a rather long laundry list of why we stay ------until it almost becomes nauseating to even us - and then we are trapped. Eventually we don't love them, we hate them, but we're trapped. We're afraid of them, we have enormous guilt about leaving them and they know how to play us - even right up to the suicide card. My ex attempted suicide in 13 years of marriage 11 times, moved us 44 times, and I was in and out of ICU like a revolving door. it took me 13 years and even more broken bones to leave him. I'm not a dumb woman, I was scared to death. Literally. He's 56 now and has not changed a thing even after I took our son and left - NOTHING has changed about him - just me. </p><p> </p><p>With regards to your wife? To me after reading about her and your daughters relationship I would explore the word enmeshed, and co-dependent. I also think if you understood the way an abused womans mind worked? I think you would get a better understanding of what your wife is going through with your daughter. To me? Their relationship is the same as an abusive relationship - it has the same dynamics, same guilt, same thought patterns, same "I can change her with love," same fears of "if I do this - she will never come back I will loose her forever, type thinking." and I say this - because with my son now 20 years old - We had locks on everything, got a safe, installed new windows, had to put locking gas caps on the cars, - I mean we put pad locks on the shed and HE TOOK THE HINGES OFF and REMOVED THE DOORS. How do you live with that? You don't. You tell them to get out. When he was arrested for burglary at 15? I had a stroke. He was looking at 40 years. I literally went to the hospital and passed out. Thought I was having a heart attack. After that? I upped my time at the psychiatrist.....got on anti-depressants, nearly lost my fiance of 9 years....and the therapist said - YOU have to start living for you.....YOU are 43 - if you live to 86 1/2 of your life is OVER.......are you going to continue to live LIKE THIS? My answer after thought was NO. Heck no. So what are you going to do about it I asked myself?? Then I made a plan and worked with my therapist - and I promise you it involved detaching from my son as much as possible and that wasnt' a bad thing, it has allowed him to grow up a lot. It's also allowed him to see that all those things that I tried to tell him and show him and teach him - like being honest, working, saving, being decent? Weren't just for "loosers like me"......yeah - they were actually things you'll need to get by in life so you can eat, have electricity, have a cool house, a car, gas, clothes...you know things a looser like me has.....and tried to give him. </p><p> </p><p>I wish you the best of luck. My advice to you would be to check with your therapist about getting some basic information on finding out why women stay in abusive relationships and about the cycle of violence. As far as your daughter and your wife? This co-depenent No more book may help her but shes in such denial - probably not. I'd start with the abusive relationship theory to get a handle on understanding them - because to me it seems very much like that is what is going on between them. Just a hunch. But you can be Mother and Daughter and have abusive relationships...as far as being the Dad in it? Well - if you DO step out of the picture for a while? No one says you can't go back....except you may explain to your wife that once you are gone? You may enjoy the peace so much that you might NOT want to come back to chaos---not that you don't want to come back to her - just peace is so euphoric....it's hard to give up. That may help her understand where you are coming from. It sure was an eye opener for me with my fiance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Star*, post: 377882, member: 4964"] Hi done dad - I've read your story and WOW.....certainly a lot of heartache there. A lot of denial too huh? There are so many things going on in your house it's a small wonder you have stayed on as long as you have so I applaud you for your strength and courage, but mostly for your love of family. I think anyone could stay - you choose to stay. That says quite a lot about your character and willingness to keep your family together. Quite a rare quality in men these days. That said maybe I can shed a little light on things from a few angles. I'm a former abused and battered woman. The reasons a woman stays in an abusive relationship are more of a mystery to her than they are to the people that love her. (scoffs) Odd huh? See you can see that this is a bad relationship for her. She may KNOW it is, but chooses to stay. You can say things like "looser, worthless, no account" and to her? Oh boy oh boy you have just solidified that relationship 10 fold. Why? Well there's a cycle of abuse and it's something that anyone can understand, there are reasons that a woman will stay in a relationship and stages to the "why she stays" part and it's complex, and that's the part that gets convoluted for a lot of women. At first we stay because we believe what they tell us - we suffer from some kind of self-esteem issues, or lack of self worth. NOT self-confidence. I was one of the most self confidant people you would ever meet. Couldnt' be done? I COULD DO IT and would. Tenacity of a pit bull. But self esteem and self-confidence? Two different things. So somewhere in your daughters belief system she suffers from lack of self esteem or self worth BUT has NO idea. Personally for me? I was adopted and had no idea I had issues with it. She may have not been picked for high school prom queen or team captain or something seemingly trivial. But it's there. So when these guys come around with their lines - WE buy it hook line and sinker because they make us feel SO good. You just can't believe what a boost it is to our self esteem. HERE is everyone - all the women and HE singled ME out. THIS important minute was MINE - NOT hers, NOT her.....not even HER. BUT ME. So that's the start. Secondly? He may be the bad apple - a little dangerous and we think we can change them. Then we believe our LOVE will conquer all. I mean after all - THEY PICKED US....over everyone else.......they picked us - so WE can work miracles. And so it goes in a rather long laundry list of why we stay ------until it almost becomes nauseating to even us - and then we are trapped. Eventually we don't love them, we hate them, but we're trapped. We're afraid of them, we have enormous guilt about leaving them and they know how to play us - even right up to the suicide card. My ex attempted suicide in 13 years of marriage 11 times, moved us 44 times, and I was in and out of ICU like a revolving door. it took me 13 years and even more broken bones to leave him. I'm not a dumb woman, I was scared to death. Literally. He's 56 now and has not changed a thing even after I took our son and left - NOTHING has changed about him - just me. With regards to your wife? To me after reading about her and your daughters relationship I would explore the word enmeshed, and co-dependent. I also think if you understood the way an abused womans mind worked? I think you would get a better understanding of what your wife is going through with your daughter. To me? Their relationship is the same as an abusive relationship - it has the same dynamics, same guilt, same thought patterns, same "I can change her with love," same fears of "if I do this - she will never come back I will loose her forever, type thinking." and I say this - because with my son now 20 years old - We had locks on everything, got a safe, installed new windows, had to put locking gas caps on the cars, - I mean we put pad locks on the shed and HE TOOK THE HINGES OFF and REMOVED THE DOORS. How do you live with that? You don't. You tell them to get out. When he was arrested for burglary at 15? I had a stroke. He was looking at 40 years. I literally went to the hospital and passed out. Thought I was having a heart attack. After that? I upped my time at the psychiatrist.....got on anti-depressants, nearly lost my fiance of 9 years....and the therapist said - YOU have to start living for you.....YOU are 43 - if you live to 86 1/2 of your life is OVER.......are you going to continue to live LIKE THIS? My answer after thought was NO. Heck no. So what are you going to do about it I asked myself?? Then I made a plan and worked with my therapist - and I promise you it involved detaching from my son as much as possible and that wasnt' a bad thing, it has allowed him to grow up a lot. It's also allowed him to see that all those things that I tried to tell him and show him and teach him - like being honest, working, saving, being decent? Weren't just for "loosers like me"......yeah - they were actually things you'll need to get by in life so you can eat, have electricity, have a cool house, a car, gas, clothes...you know things a looser like me has.....and tried to give him. I wish you the best of luck. My advice to you would be to check with your therapist about getting some basic information on finding out why women stay in abusive relationships and about the cycle of violence. As far as your daughter and your wife? This co-depenent No more book may help her but shes in such denial - probably not. I'd start with the abusive relationship theory to get a handle on understanding them - because to me it seems very much like that is what is going on between them. Just a hunch. But you can be Mother and Daughter and have abusive relationships...as far as being the Dad in it? Well - if you DO step out of the picture for a while? No one says you can't go back....except you may explain to your wife that once you are gone? You may enjoy the peace so much that you might NOT want to come back to chaos---not that you don't want to come back to her - just peace is so euphoric....it's hard to give up. That may help her understand where you are coming from. It sure was an eye opener for me with my fiance. [/QUOTE]
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