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Surviving parent, whom I love, sad that his kids are estranged
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 676158" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>If it were personal Copa, there would be a specific victim or even, a series of victims. Once vengeance had been taken, the behaviors would stop. My sister, so it appears to me now, victimizes in whatever way she can seemingly by reflex. I think it was the same dynamic at work in the two women I have known in my professional life who were just not right, but who zoomed to the top before being fired.</p><p></p><p>I am thinking about my sister telling her story to a man on a plane and being given <em>and taking </em>a large donation of money. I am thinking of taking her to see touristy things, and of having her push for me to buy her an item more expensive than I would ever have bought for myself. And then, at the next shop, a different, equally expensive item which she fondled and sighed over and showed to me and showed to me again as she stood where she was and saw only that.</p><p></p><p>I did not buy the items for her. </p><p></p><p>It was an offensive thing for her to have done. And yet, I felt cheapened too in a way because I had not given my sister what she so clearly wanted. I think this is the dynamic at the heart of the sisters' gobbling up entire inheritances. It is not that the mother does not (well, except for my mom :O) wish to distribute an inheritance fairly so much as it is that the sisters who are different in the ways that our sisters are different manipulate the mother through their tears or sadness <em>or whatever will work. </em>In the same way my sister got money from a stranger on a plane, or tried to manipulate me into buying things for her, and etc.</p><p></p><p><em>I am thinking here Copa of your mother, too. Of what she said about the sister.</em></p><p></p><p>In any event, my sister will take until that point is reached where she has over-reached but still, the giver feels cheapened.</p><p></p><p>The gift, or the money, is never, ever, enough. It isn't that the gift is not appreciated. It is that the standard of exchange becomes pleasing my sister. We are manipulated by her gratitude (or tears ~ whatever works) into feeling we should have done more. Or by her poverty, to feel we should have given more, no matter how much we have given. (We should never have given any. Do not begin, with these people.) Or by her business acumen, to feel we should have given more of our time to research the things she needs researched because she is so busy, busy, busy. (Which I have done for her. And which is never-ending and yet, essentially pointless. I am not an attorney. So that is why I say they will steal our time. They will. They never stop. I ran an experiment. The more time I gave her, the more arrogant and demanding my sister became. It was an extraordinary thing to see, and was instrumental in my awakening to just who my sister is.) I continued to interact with her though, until she hurt my child.</p><p></p><p>It is a wicked little dance that we dance with our sisters. To me, what it seems like they want is for us to be wizened and blackened dead things <em>and then, they would simply move on to the next victim</em>.</p><p></p><p>I think we think they have been hurt Copa, and so, we protect or excuse and etc. But I think they cannot be hurt or not hurt. They manipulate. </p><p></p><p>Cold. </p><p></p><p>Even hosting my sister overnight in a beautiful beach rental will find her telling us they left us early so they could go down the beach to visit other, better places than where they had stayed, with us!</p><p></p><p>That actually happened.</p><p></p><p>So, all those things taken together tell me the sisters will play hurt sister if that works. Or, they will play arrogant bossy sister if that works. Or they will play any role at all that enables them to suck the people around them into confusion. (I think your sister's behaviors fit this mold too, Copa. I am thinking about the luncheon. I am thinking about the brash impropriety of running her eyes over M's body. Your mother was sick, Copa. You had come from far away to protect her. The sister runs her eyes over M's body?!? <em>This was no accident Copa, and it had nothing whatsoever to do with M and everything to do with you. It had to do with passion and self definition and claiming what you want as you have always done. And that guilt at having what you want and doing what you want and going where you want and leaving behind what you do not want in your life is what the sister used to change the legitimacy of your position, Copa.</em></p><p></p><p>You had been called home by the mother to protect the mother <em>and you came, Copa</em>. That the mother was no longer defenseless must have absolutely enraged the sister. I am surprised she did not burst into a case of internal combustion right there in the hospital.</p><p></p><p>I wonder how we should interact with such persons?</p><p></p><p>In the internet articles, they say: Run.</p><p></p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>Serenity's sister actively pursues her and is more frightening than ours. D H says I will need to be very strong where my sister is concerned. I never understood what he meant.</p><p></p><p>I am glad w are doing this thread.</p><p></p><p>Thank you, Copa.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>It's like their time sense is different. Just as an artist sees color differently than someone who does not paint, these kinds of people perceive their worlds differently than we perceive ours. If there are not people watching them, if there is not someone else being labeled or demeaned or excluded they feel they have disappeared, or maybe, that they have become one of the great unwashed. They operate more instant to disconnected instant than we do I think. (That might be why they lie more easily than they tell the truth. They literally may not know how they got where they are.) </p><p></p><p>They are coldly manipulative.</p><p></p><p>I don't think there is one thing personal about anything they do, Copa.</p><p></p><p>My sister watches me watch her eyes fill with tears. <em>Who watches the effect their tears will have on the observer?!?</em></p><p></p><p>Someone who is blackmailing us.</p><p></p><p>Which is what manipulation is, when you think about it.</p><p></p><p>BOOM</p><p></p><p>I am free of the first therapist.</p><p></p><p>:O)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A man would not be humiliated by a woman giving him a contemptuous once over the way a woman would be, were that same look to be directed at her by a man. Men routinely overstep boundaries to smile at us and stand by us and flirt with us, and they are used to the sudden cold shoulder, the contemptuous look, the turning away.</p><p></p><p>It's part of the game, Copa. Men whistle at us, they like to buy us things and ask us to have dinner with them and everytime they do that (and they do it, alot) they risk that look, that attitude your sister displayed toward M.</p><p></p><p>That look was for you, Copa.</p><p></p><p>Nothing to do with M. </p><p></p><p>Not on any level.</p><p></p><p>Only you.</p><p></p><p>It was your one vulnerability, Copa. That <em>in comparison</em> piece.</p><p></p><p>And down you went.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No Leafy, nothing was buried. We went on to live our lives beautifully. When our children became so troubled, losing them awakened old, and traumatic, pain. It does so for every parent of course, but it was a deeper, more confusing thing for those of us with abusive childhoods because it affected our abilities to cope with the dangerous and painful things happening to our families. As our children have come through it, as we have learned detachment parenting and pulled our lives together, we have decided to confront whatever is left of those old, traumatic things we were taught about ourselves.</p><p></p><p>Out they go.</p><p></p><p>There is no despair, Leafy. There is triumph in reclaiming the self.</p><p></p><p>What is done is done. Over. It cannot be undone or erased, but trauma-induced understandings of self and other can be confronted and healed, here in this anonymous place where nothing we say can hurt anyone else. </p><p></p><p>Thank you for reading along.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 676158, member: 17461"] If it were personal Copa, there would be a specific victim or even, a series of victims. Once vengeance had been taken, the behaviors would stop. My sister, so it appears to me now, victimizes in whatever way she can seemingly by reflex. I think it was the same dynamic at work in the two women I have known in my professional life who were just not right, but who zoomed to the top before being fired. I am thinking about my sister telling her story to a man on a plane and being given [I]and taking [/I]a large donation of money. I am thinking of taking her to see touristy things, and of having her push for me to buy her an item more expensive than I would ever have bought for myself. And then, at the next shop, a different, equally expensive item which she fondled and sighed over and showed to me and showed to me again as she stood where she was and saw only that. I did not buy the items for her. It was an offensive thing for her to have done. And yet, I felt cheapened too in a way because I had not given my sister what she so clearly wanted. I think this is the dynamic at the heart of the sisters' gobbling up entire inheritances. It is not that the mother does not (well, except for my mom :O) wish to distribute an inheritance fairly so much as it is that the sisters who are different in the ways that our sisters are different manipulate the mother through their tears or sadness [I]or whatever will work. [/I]In the same way my sister got money from a stranger on a plane, or tried to manipulate me into buying things for her, and etc. [I]I am thinking here Copa of your mother, too. Of what she said about the sister.[/I] In any event, my sister will take until that point is reached where she has over-reached but still, the giver feels cheapened. The gift, or the money, is never, ever, enough. It isn't that the gift is not appreciated. It is that the standard of exchange becomes pleasing my sister. We are manipulated by her gratitude (or tears ~ whatever works) into feeling we should have done more. Or by her poverty, to feel we should have given more, no matter how much we have given. (We should never have given any. Do not begin, with these people.) Or by her business acumen, to feel we should have given more of our time to research the things she needs researched because she is so busy, busy, busy. (Which I have done for her. And which is never-ending and yet, essentially pointless. I am not an attorney. So that is why I say they will steal our time. They will. They never stop. I ran an experiment. The more time I gave her, the more arrogant and demanding my sister became. It was an extraordinary thing to see, and was instrumental in my awakening to just who my sister is.) I continued to interact with her though, until she hurt my child. It is a wicked little dance that we dance with our sisters. To me, what it seems like they want is for us to be wizened and blackened dead things [I]and then, they would simply move on to the next victim[/I]. I think we think they have been hurt Copa, and so, we protect or excuse and etc. But I think they cannot be hurt or not hurt. They manipulate. Cold. Even hosting my sister overnight in a beautiful beach rental will find her telling us they left us early so they could go down the beach to visit other, better places than where they had stayed, with us! That actually happened. So, all those things taken together tell me the sisters will play hurt sister if that works. Or, they will play arrogant bossy sister if that works. Or they will play any role at all that enables them to suck the people around them into confusion. (I think your sister's behaviors fit this mold too, Copa. I am thinking about the luncheon. I am thinking about the brash impropriety of running her eyes over M's body. Your mother was sick, Copa. You had come from far away to protect her. The sister runs her eyes over M's body?!? [I]This was no accident Copa, and it had nothing whatsoever to do with M and everything to do with you. It had to do with passion and self definition and claiming what you want as you have always done. And that guilt at having what you want and doing what you want and going where you want and leaving behind what you do not want in your life is what the sister used to change the legitimacy of your position, Copa.[/I] You had been called home by the mother to protect the mother [I]and you came, Copa[/I]. That the mother was no longer defenseless must have absolutely enraged the sister. I am surprised she did not burst into a case of internal combustion right there in the hospital. I wonder how we should interact with such persons? In the internet articles, they say: Run. *** Serenity's sister actively pursues her and is more frightening than ours. D H says I will need to be very strong where my sister is concerned. I never understood what he meant. I am glad w are doing this thread. Thank you, Copa. *** It's like their time sense is different. Just as an artist sees color differently than someone who does not paint, these kinds of people perceive their worlds differently than we perceive ours. If there are not people watching them, if there is not someone else being labeled or demeaned or excluded they feel they have disappeared, or maybe, that they have become one of the great unwashed. They operate more instant to disconnected instant than we do I think. (That might be why they lie more easily than they tell the truth. They literally may not know how they got where they are.) They are coldly manipulative. I don't think there is one thing personal about anything they do, Copa. My sister watches me watch her eyes fill with tears. [I]Who watches the effect their tears will have on the observer?!?[/I] Someone who is blackmailing us. Which is what manipulation is, when you think about it. BOOM I am free of the first therapist. :O) A man would not be humiliated by a woman giving him a contemptuous once over the way a woman would be, were that same look to be directed at her by a man. Men routinely overstep boundaries to smile at us and stand by us and flirt with us, and they are used to the sudden cold shoulder, the contemptuous look, the turning away. It's part of the game, Copa. Men whistle at us, they like to buy us things and ask us to have dinner with them and everytime they do that (and they do it, alot) they risk that look, that attitude your sister displayed toward M. That look was for you, Copa. Nothing to do with M. Not on any level. Only you. It was your one vulnerability, Copa. That [I]in comparison[/I] piece. And down you went. No Leafy, nothing was buried. We went on to live our lives beautifully. When our children became so troubled, losing them awakened old, and traumatic, pain. It does so for every parent of course, but it was a deeper, more confusing thing for those of us with abusive childhoods because it affected our abilities to cope with the dangerous and painful things happening to our families. As our children have come through it, as we have learned detachment parenting and pulled our lives together, we have decided to confront whatever is left of those old, traumatic things we were taught about ourselves. Out they go. There is no despair, Leafy. There is triumph in reclaiming the self. What is done is done. Over. It cannot be undone or erased, but trauma-induced understandings of self and other can be confronted and healed, here in this anonymous place where nothing we say can hurt anyone else. Thank you for reading along. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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