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The good, the bad and the utterly stupid
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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 739011" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>To me the concept of evil does not fit here. (Or, more to the point... I hope it doesn't.)</p><p></p><p>What your daughter seems to do is -- whatever she thinks of, in the moment -- to get what she wants-- independently of the effects on anybody else. She seems to not factor in the needs or feelings of any other person. It is this which would have been so catastrophic were she to be a mother.</p><p></p><p>I do not think her intention is to do bad things. But the issue, is that she seems to not have intentions at all. Rather than intentions she has impulses which do not seem to be filtered by any moral revision or thought.</p><p></p><p>I think this is true of many of the adult children here on this site to one extent or another. It certainly is true of my son.</p><p></p><p>Today a notice arrived from my health insurance referencing billing in his name for $2500 in charges to get to the emergency hospital, and $4500 to carry him there in an ambulance. We live in the same town. At least we did then. He regularly walks from where he was living to where the hospital is, which is a 5 minute walk from me. He could have called us for a ride. He did not.</p><p></p><p>That I am aware of, he had not been ill. Except for a mild case of the summer flu.</p><p></p><p>This is not the first time he has done this. He is indifferent to the social costs of such behavior. He is indifferent to accruing bills. Why pay them?</p><p></p><p>Out of sight. Out of mind. He is indifferent to consequences to himself or others. He only wants what he wants in the moment. He does not learn from one experience to the next.</p><p></p><p>What I think this is, more than evil, is animalistic. It is animals whose memory is limited. It is animals who operate from instinct. It is animals who are usually but not always amoral.</p><p></p><p>I would not want to think of my son as evil. Nor is thinking of him as an animal much easier to bear. But if I think about being human, of having humanity, the heart of it, is having heart, being conscious, and learning.</p><p> </p><p>How many times more will I feel the need to post these words or something like this?</p><p></p><p>Oh. How hard this is.</p><p></p><p>Albatross wrote something very beautiful in the past week, reflecting upon preceding posts by TL and myself. Since I do not remember her precise words, I will write my understanding of what she said.</p><p></p><p>TL and I lamented how in relation to our sons we had been strategic or controlling.</p><p></p><p>Albatross wants to live in the immediacy of her felt experience, wholly present in relationship. No future. No past. Just present. Without judgement or expectation.</p><p></p><p>Martin Buber the famous theologian/philosopher talks about this as I/Thou.</p><p></p><p>He wrote how our tendency is to relate to each other as "it."</p><p></p><p>Honestly. I do not know how to do what Albatross strives for. But my inability to be present with my son has made me seriously ill and despairing for almost a decade. I concealed my despair for many years by anger. I have tried all manner of other escapes. Now. I will not speak with him at all.</p><p></p><p>My sorrow and regret are boundless.</p><p></p><p>I believe that there has been a mutation in our relationship caused by my own inability to relate to how he began to live, and to behave; the kind of person he ended up being. An inability to be present to him and the reality of his suffering and limitation. These are just too painful to me.</p><p></p><p>The question is whether or not any parent such as I am is capable of sustaining a non judgmental and non reactive stance when nearly every principle and practice to which she holds dear, is disregarded by the person she has loved most in her whole life.</p><p></p><p>This issue is one that you have touched upon in this thread. Who wants to live the rest of their lives fearing the presence of their child, knowing that there is no possibility of real relationship?</p><p></p><p>Surely, not me.</p><p></p><p>I think we cast about for ways to distance ourselves from this yawning glimpse into horror. So we find words like "evil" to contain this indescribably horrible feeling. And the worst thing of all, is that this worst word in the whole word is not big or bad enough to contain the reality that we face.</p><p></p><p>Maybe, in that light, there is a way to learn to be as Albatross describes. Just being present, without hiding.</p><p></p><p>I went back and I found that quote that meant so much to me.</p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms'"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"> Thank you. Albatross. How did you do it?</span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 739011, member: 18958"] To me the concept of evil does not fit here. (Or, more to the point... I hope it doesn't.) What your daughter seems to do is -- whatever she thinks of, in the moment -- to get what she wants-- independently of the effects on anybody else. She seems to not factor in the needs or feelings of any other person. It is this which would have been so catastrophic were she to be a mother. I do not think her intention is to do bad things. But the issue, is that she seems to not have intentions at all. Rather than intentions she has impulses which do not seem to be filtered by any moral revision or thought. I think this is true of many of the adult children here on this site to one extent or another. It certainly is true of my son. Today a notice arrived from my health insurance referencing billing in his name for $2500 in charges to get to the emergency hospital, and $4500 to carry him there in an ambulance. We live in the same town. At least we did then. He regularly walks from where he was living to where the hospital is, which is a 5 minute walk from me. He could have called us for a ride. He did not. That I am aware of, he had not been ill. Except for a mild case of the summer flu. This is not the first time he has done this. He is indifferent to the social costs of such behavior. He is indifferent to accruing bills. Why pay them? Out of sight. Out of mind. He is indifferent to consequences to himself or others. He only wants what he wants in the moment. He does not learn from one experience to the next. What I think this is, more than evil, is animalistic. It is animals whose memory is limited. It is animals who operate from instinct. It is animals who are usually but not always amoral. I would not want to think of my son as evil. Nor is thinking of him as an animal much easier to bear. But if I think about being human, of having humanity, the heart of it, is having heart, being conscious, and learning. How many times more will I feel the need to post these words or something like this? Oh. How hard this is. Albatross wrote something very beautiful in the past week, reflecting upon preceding posts by TL and myself. Since I do not remember her precise words, I will write my understanding of what she said. TL and I lamented how in relation to our sons we had been strategic or controlling. Albatross wants to live in the immediacy of her felt experience, wholly present in relationship. No future. No past. Just present. Without judgement or expectation. Martin Buber the famous theologian/philosopher talks about this as I/Thou. He wrote how our tendency is to relate to each other as "it." Honestly. I do not know how to do what Albatross strives for. But my inability to be present with my son has made me seriously ill and despairing for almost a decade. I concealed my despair for many years by anger. I have tried all manner of other escapes. Now. I will not speak with him at all. My sorrow and regret are boundless. I believe that there has been a mutation in our relationship caused by my own inability to relate to how he began to live, and to behave; the kind of person he ended up being. An inability to be present to him and the reality of his suffering and limitation. These are just too painful to me. The question is whether or not any parent such as I am is capable of sustaining a non judgmental and non reactive stance when nearly every principle and practice to which she holds dear, is disregarded by the person she has loved most in her whole life. This issue is one that you have touched upon in this thread. Who wants to live the rest of their lives fearing the presence of their child, knowing that there is no possibility of real relationship? Surely, not me. I think we cast about for ways to distance ourselves from this yawning glimpse into horror. So we find words like "evil" to contain this indescribably horrible feeling. And the worst thing of all, is that this worst word in the whole word is not big or bad enough to contain the reality that we face. Maybe, in that light, there is a way to learn to be as Albatross describes. Just being present, without hiding. I went back and I found that quote that meant so much to me. [LEFT][FONT=trebuchet ms][COLOR=rgb(20, 20, 20)] Thank you. Albatross. How did you do it?[/COLOR][/FONT][/LEFT] [/QUOTE]
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