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"The Manipulative Child"
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<blockquote data-quote="Andy" data-source="post: 169126" data-attributes="member: 5096"><p>What I understand is that most of these kids come from parents who tried to keep them happy at all costs. Parent who love their kids and will do anything to make life easy. Their way of doing this is more permissable than many but not in the same way as permissive parenting. They don't like to see their child unhappy so they do everything to make them happy to the limits of the child misses out on some natural unpleasentness. I held my kids a lot because I didn't like to hear them cry. They never learned how to cry themselves to sleep. </p><p> </p><p>This is different from the spoiled child who gets everything and anything to keep them happy. These parents really believe that they are leading their child into a life of being cabable of making choices. They are not giving their child material items but they are giving their child the ability to make all their own choices. Sounds right - just forgot one thing - the non-negotiable things in life - like no playing in the street, period "but mom, that is the best place to use the chalk". There is no way a parent is going to negotiate on this one but some kids will still battle for it. Or maybe two things - the child will ALWAYS choose the fun choice, not based on what is best for themselves - they don't understand values yet - just fun.</p><p> </p><p>We sometimes give them too many choices. It is so exciting to show the toddler the world and give the toddler choices. We find it as a way to teach toddlers that they can control their world - though we don't want that in the wrong way. I found myself giving my kids choices in the non-negotiable areas because I wanted so much for them to make the right choice. Then when they don't make the right choice, what can I do? I gave them the choice. Toddlers learn that everything has a choice thus they look for the choice in all situations. As they become school age, they look at creating their own choice. "Mom, I don't want to go to the library, let's go to the park instead." "We need to go to the library to return books and get a new one. We don't have time for the Park today." "But the park is next door, you go to the library and let me go to the park." See how child looks for a way to get to the park?</p><p> </p><p>When they do not comply, we often ignore the behavior to avoid the battle of an unhappy child. Non-compliance with non-negotiable things should not be ignored (my biggest fault). That is negative reinforcement. If you didn't make child comply, they got away with non-compliance.</p><p> </p><p>When children are allowed to negotiate everything, they get used to setting the stage. If your boss always gave you the option of solving all your businesses problems and then one day told you that your co-worker will make the decisions now, you will become stressful - how does the co-worker know to do what you set up? The co-worker is going to change everything you worked to build. The children never lived within your choices so have never learned to know your decisions are good ones. After all, you are always asking for their advice, are you sure you can do this on your own? How can child be assured that you will make the choice they want?</p><p> </p><p>I don't think it is that the child doesn't trust you, it is more that they never or very seldom experienced non-negotiable situations and are always expecting a choice. They have built their own comfort zone by making choices not by accepting them.</p><p> </p><p>I also allowed my kids to reason their way out of too many things that should have been non-negotiable. Maybe something was negoitiable one time but not the next which confuses the kid and leads them to believe that it depends on your way of thinking that day if something is o.k. that day or not. So if they can change your way of thinking, they can get their way. "But mom, you let us do it yesterday."</p><p> </p><p>If the child grows up always being able to negotiate everything and having non-negotiable situations ignored - they don't learn what that many things are non-negotiable. Most kids can live like this until they become teens and are expected to accept non-negotiable situations like going to school, doing homework, letting mom know where they are going and when they are on their own, paying bills. If they do not want to go to school or refuse to tell you their whereabouts, you will have a battle on your hands because the child is used to setting the stage and is in the habit of arguing to the ends of the world to get his way.</p><p> </p><p>So, we can not go from the extreme of no negotiating to the opposite end of negotiate everything. I find myself on the negotiate everything side. I need to learn how to teach my kids about non-negotiating situations. Sometimes they just have to let go. They have to learn that in following rules, they do stay in control.</p><p> </p><p>This is one of those many areas hard to explain so we explain it at two extreme ends and hope that the true meaning of what is best for each child lies somewhere in the middle comes to light. </p><p> </p><p>This makes sense only as it applies to each person. If you have not felt a child trying to get out of a non-negotiable situation using every tool he or she can think of, this probably will not hit home.</p><p> </p><p>This is not saying to not allow negotiating. This is saying that there is a time for negotiating and there is also a time for non-negotiation. Kids have to learn both. Parents need to be comfortable in setting the criteria of what is negotiable and what is not.</p><p> </p><p>Kids don't feel out of control - they just feel in control under their own choices.</p><p></p><p>Your mother did not give you choices - you were told to do something and because your mother was out of control, you feared what would happen if you did not obey. You have grown up thinking, if mom would have trusted me more, life would be easier, I was a good kid, she should have let me do what I wanted to, so you trust your child to make smart choices. You give your child what you did not have and missed; choices. Your child grows up seeing that choices are a good thing and that there must be choices in everything. It is not a bad thing. It is when your child starts demanding a choice that fits his wishes that the trouble starts because sometimes there is not such a choice.</p><p> </p><p>I think an 11 year old stating that mom is too controlling is normal. That is a year that many kids are starting to spread their independent wings. They want to try things that mom may not feel they are ready for. They are more aware of mom's attention and get embarrased over your pampering in public. You know your child best and know what is best for him. Continue to follow your instincts and talk to your son about why he thinks you are too controlling. Explain to him some of the dangers - "I know you know the way to the store one mile away, however, I don't want you crossing that highway to get there. It is too dangerous, the drivers are not expecting someone to be crossing the street in that area. Let's wait a few more years before you do this activity."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Andy, post: 169126, member: 5096"] What I understand is that most of these kids come from parents who tried to keep them happy at all costs. Parent who love their kids and will do anything to make life easy. Their way of doing this is more permissable than many but not in the same way as permissive parenting. They don't like to see their child unhappy so they do everything to make them happy to the limits of the child misses out on some natural unpleasentness. I held my kids a lot because I didn't like to hear them cry. They never learned how to cry themselves to sleep. This is different from the spoiled child who gets everything and anything to keep them happy. These parents really believe that they are leading their child into a life of being cabable of making choices. They are not giving their child material items but they are giving their child the ability to make all their own choices. Sounds right - just forgot one thing - the non-negotiable things in life - like no playing in the street, period "but mom, that is the best place to use the chalk". There is no way a parent is going to negotiate on this one but some kids will still battle for it. Or maybe two things - the child will ALWAYS choose the fun choice, not based on what is best for themselves - they don't understand values yet - just fun. We sometimes give them too many choices. It is so exciting to show the toddler the world and give the toddler choices. We find it as a way to teach toddlers that they can control their world - though we don't want that in the wrong way. I found myself giving my kids choices in the non-negotiable areas because I wanted so much for them to make the right choice. Then when they don't make the right choice, what can I do? I gave them the choice. Toddlers learn that everything has a choice thus they look for the choice in all situations. As they become school age, they look at creating their own choice. "Mom, I don't want to go to the library, let's go to the park instead." "We need to go to the library to return books and get a new one. We don't have time for the Park today." "But the park is next door, you go to the library and let me go to the park." See how child looks for a way to get to the park? When they do not comply, we often ignore the behavior to avoid the battle of an unhappy child. Non-compliance with non-negotiable things should not be ignored (my biggest fault). That is negative reinforcement. If you didn't make child comply, they got away with non-compliance. When children are allowed to negotiate everything, they get used to setting the stage. If your boss always gave you the option of solving all your businesses problems and then one day told you that your co-worker will make the decisions now, you will become stressful - how does the co-worker know to do what you set up? The co-worker is going to change everything you worked to build. The children never lived within your choices so have never learned to know your decisions are good ones. After all, you are always asking for their advice, are you sure you can do this on your own? How can child be assured that you will make the choice they want? I don't think it is that the child doesn't trust you, it is more that they never or very seldom experienced non-negotiable situations and are always expecting a choice. They have built their own comfort zone by making choices not by accepting them. I also allowed my kids to reason their way out of too many things that should have been non-negotiable. Maybe something was negoitiable one time but not the next which confuses the kid and leads them to believe that it depends on your way of thinking that day if something is o.k. that day or not. So if they can change your way of thinking, they can get their way. "But mom, you let us do it yesterday." If the child grows up always being able to negotiate everything and having non-negotiable situations ignored - they don't learn what that many things are non-negotiable. Most kids can live like this until they become teens and are expected to accept non-negotiable situations like going to school, doing homework, letting mom know where they are going and when they are on their own, paying bills. If they do not want to go to school or refuse to tell you their whereabouts, you will have a battle on your hands because the child is used to setting the stage and is in the habit of arguing to the ends of the world to get his way. So, we can not go from the extreme of no negotiating to the opposite end of negotiate everything. I find myself on the negotiate everything side. I need to learn how to teach my kids about non-negotiating situations. Sometimes they just have to let go. They have to learn that in following rules, they do stay in control. This is one of those many areas hard to explain so we explain it at two extreme ends and hope that the true meaning of what is best for each child lies somewhere in the middle comes to light. This makes sense only as it applies to each person. If you have not felt a child trying to get out of a non-negotiable situation using every tool he or she can think of, this probably will not hit home. This is not saying to not allow negotiating. This is saying that there is a time for negotiating and there is also a time for non-negotiation. Kids have to learn both. Parents need to be comfortable in setting the criteria of what is negotiable and what is not. Kids don't feel out of control - they just feel in control under their own choices. Your mother did not give you choices - you were told to do something and because your mother was out of control, you feared what would happen if you did not obey. You have grown up thinking, if mom would have trusted me more, life would be easier, I was a good kid, she should have let me do what I wanted to, so you trust your child to make smart choices. You give your child what you did not have and missed; choices. Your child grows up seeing that choices are a good thing and that there must be choices in everything. It is not a bad thing. It is when your child starts demanding a choice that fits his wishes that the trouble starts because sometimes there is not such a choice. I think an 11 year old stating that mom is too controlling is normal. That is a year that many kids are starting to spread their independent wings. They want to try things that mom may not feel they are ready for. They are more aware of mom's attention and get embarrased over your pampering in public. You know your child best and know what is best for him. Continue to follow your instincts and talk to your son about why he thinks you are too controlling. Explain to him some of the dangers - "I know you know the way to the store one mile away, however, I don't want you crossing that highway to get there. It is too dangerous, the drivers are not expecting someone to be crossing the street in that area. Let's wait a few more years before you do this activity." [/QUOTE]
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