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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 428104" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>OK, I have a slightly more complex view, thanks to long conversations with both boys about their stims. I agree, this sounds like stimming. And yes, there can be a connection with medications but not necessarily the connection you think.</p><p></p><p>First, there is SOME voluntary control, but it is variable. It also takes a lot of effort. The stimming is actually a coping strategy at some level - it soothes and calms the individual. However, especially as they get older and more socially aware, and especially as they get pressured to not make the noises, they try to mask it. This removes a coping strategy and can increase anxiety. And as we found, you stop one type of stimulant, another one will emerge. Also over time, perhaps due to social pressure, the stims tend to become less obtrusive.</p><p></p><p>When they're concentrating on other things (such as in class doing worksheets) there is likely to be a considerable increase in unconscious stims. teachers often see this as deliberate, but it generally is not. If their attention is brought to it, they will make an effort to stop but as they slip back into focussing on their work, the stimulant comes back. This leaves the teacher with a difficult choice - either block the stimulant (and the student can't concentrate on work) or put up with it and the distraction in order to get some output from the kid.</p><p></p><p>There is also some level of deliberate involvement in stims. Not a lot, though. For example, difficult child 1 (like a lot of Aspies) is a mimic. he likes to try and imitate noises, actions etc. It is part of his attempts to learn to fit in - first observe, then imitate. So, he got a volunteer job in a local Aussie zoo. He is especially fascinated with birds, so it was bird behaviour and bird noises he began to observe and imitate. The large male emus were especially fascinating to him. They make a sort of quiet booming noise, sounds like the noise you would get if you tapped the end of a long open drainpipe. Which I guess is what their long throat resembles! So at first, difficult child 1 worked hard to get the sound just right. But what then happened, was he couldn't stop. He was about 20 at the time, old enough to know what was NOT socially acceptable.</p><p></p><p>Let's go back to when he was 6 years old. We have this on tape, because we were travelling in Europe at the time. difficult child 1 was sitting in the back of the car making what I called WWII noises. To a casual observer, it sounded like he was in his own world mentally replaying every dogfight Snoopy ever fought against the Red Baron. But I realise now, he couldn't stop these noises. Being away from his comfort zone pushed his anxiety up and increased the need for the stims for him. So the more we pressured him to shut up, the more he couldn't. He tried, but as soon as he stopped concentrating on "shutting up" the noises would start up again.</p><p></p><p>Does this help you understand? it is a bit more complicated than "they can't help it" but that is basically what it boils down to. See if you can share this with your son's teacher, and see if you can work with her to find other strategies to reduce his anxiety and need to stimulant. Also work with him to find more socially acceptable stims. But that is a lot trickier!</p><p></p><p>Acceptance will work wonders, especially with the apparent ODD side of things.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 428104, member: 1991"] OK, I have a slightly more complex view, thanks to long conversations with both boys about their stims. I agree, this sounds like stimming. And yes, there can be a connection with medications but not necessarily the connection you think. First, there is SOME voluntary control, but it is variable. It also takes a lot of effort. The stimming is actually a coping strategy at some level - it soothes and calms the individual. However, especially as they get older and more socially aware, and especially as they get pressured to not make the noises, they try to mask it. This removes a coping strategy and can increase anxiety. And as we found, you stop one type of stimulant, another one will emerge. Also over time, perhaps due to social pressure, the stims tend to become less obtrusive. When they're concentrating on other things (such as in class doing worksheets) there is likely to be a considerable increase in unconscious stims. teachers often see this as deliberate, but it generally is not. If their attention is brought to it, they will make an effort to stop but as they slip back into focussing on their work, the stimulant comes back. This leaves the teacher with a difficult choice - either block the stimulant (and the student can't concentrate on work) or put up with it and the distraction in order to get some output from the kid. There is also some level of deliberate involvement in stims. Not a lot, though. For example, difficult child 1 (like a lot of Aspies) is a mimic. he likes to try and imitate noises, actions etc. It is part of his attempts to learn to fit in - first observe, then imitate. So, he got a volunteer job in a local Aussie zoo. He is especially fascinated with birds, so it was bird behaviour and bird noises he began to observe and imitate. The large male emus were especially fascinating to him. They make a sort of quiet booming noise, sounds like the noise you would get if you tapped the end of a long open drainpipe. Which I guess is what their long throat resembles! So at first, difficult child 1 worked hard to get the sound just right. But what then happened, was he couldn't stop. He was about 20 at the time, old enough to know what was NOT socially acceptable. Let's go back to when he was 6 years old. We have this on tape, because we were travelling in Europe at the time. difficult child 1 was sitting in the back of the car making what I called WWII noises. To a casual observer, it sounded like he was in his own world mentally replaying every dogfight Snoopy ever fought against the Red Baron. But I realise now, he couldn't stop these noises. Being away from his comfort zone pushed his anxiety up and increased the need for the stims for him. So the more we pressured him to shut up, the more he couldn't. He tried, but as soon as he stopped concentrating on "shutting up" the noises would start up again. Does this help you understand? it is a bit more complicated than "they can't help it" but that is basically what it boils down to. See if you can share this with your son's teacher, and see if you can work with her to find other strategies to reduce his anxiety and need to stimulant. Also work with him to find more socially acceptable stims. But that is a lot trickier! Acceptance will work wonders, especially with the apparent ODD side of things. Marg [/QUOTE]
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