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<blockquote data-quote="Mattsmom277" data-source="post: 364417" data-attributes="member: 4264"><p>It is sadly common that toxic people, when being pushed out of peoples lives for darn good long standing reasons, increase efforts to cause problems. Then, it sounds like your parents and you have a relationship that does allow for some decision making processes to be assumed a group decision (I mean by that, sounds like your mom in particular sees herself as having some right to a role in deciding choices in your life, your husbands, your childrens).</p><p></p><p>While I completely see that somehow you will find a way to break the tie to your difficult child bro (you seem ready!), I wonder if you've considered that your mom is going to be a problem that will interfere with the process simply because she thinks one way, and doesn't understand that she truly has no say, and no right to a say, in decisions you make.</p><p></p><p>Hard as it is, this cycle needs to be broken and most parents of your mothers age, are too set in their ways to choose to change. They see it as the way it is, and will remain. </p><p></p><p>This leaves you. And your husband and your kids. And it may require putting up with your mom playing the wounded party for a while. And perhaps in defense of your moms feeling, even your dad playing the wounded party or supportive of your moms wounded person party. Know what I mean?? But they love you. And sometimes there is no "talking through it" to come to a understanding. Sometimes for your own sake, you have to take the rocky path to get to the end desired goal of having a relationship with your mom and dad, leaving your bro in your past, and while respecting their relationship with your brother, they too need to respect your lack of one. Probably the best thing is to just insist on not mentioning him, keep their relaitonship their own, and yours as yours. Period. Middle ground WILL continue this toxic cycle you are all in right now. And you can stand your ground and not see your bro again ever. And you will still suffer the after affect, due to the dynamic about this topic that is in place with you and your parents. Your parents are going to be who they are to your bro. Period. They aren't going to suddenly reject him and recognize how awful he has turned out to his own sister and demand a change from him or cut him out of their lives. Really, nobody is stupid about our kids. THey are in denial, its easier. They know their grown son acts like a complete prat. They simply are in the mindset many are, to not rock the boat. And rather than rock his boat and take on his ****, they stand firm to YOU by interfering and demanding certain things from you. Why? Because they can count on you being the one to not **** on them and to be more easily "managed". Are your parents bad people? Nope. They are quite typical it sounds, and loving, if misguided. </p><p></p><p>So what can you do? YOU? That is what it boils down to. I can envision you saying "I will NOT discuss him with you. Not my lack of relationship. History is that, its gone. There is no future. As for your own relationship with him, that is your own personal decision and your right. I do NOT want to hear about your conversations, relationships, joys or problems with him, his life, his marriage or kids or anything to do with him, simply because it will lead to more particular conversations and land us right back here. And I'm DONE with here. As your daughter, I am asking for a continued healthy relationship with YOU. And I hope that happens. When you are ready for that, I'll be overjoyed. I do NOT ask you to choose, that is not part of some secret agenda. I simply have made a choice MYSELF, and thats it. You don't need to like it. I don't like lots of choices others make. But it is what it is. I don't want to hear opinions on my choices at all in fact because they change nothing about the decisions but they WILL impact OUR relationship, probably for the worse. And is that at all worth it? No it isn't. I look forward to a healthy relationship with love and laughs and visits etc. I can't imagine either of you would want to place a pricetag on that relationship of my continued endurance of what is deemed by me, my husband and kids, as abuse by a sibling that I have no relationship with. So, having said all that, it need not, and best not, even be discussed again, as there is no discussion room. This was me informing you of where I stand, not requesting nor needing validation in my choices, permission, dialogue, opinions, expressions of regret etc. Having said all that, I feel SO much better as our relationship means much more to me than I can say and I have done what must be done to ensure we can be happy in our each others lives. Moving on, how about dinner Sunday?" <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>And I can see a potential for a bit of a problem with them accepting it. But over time, the distress of waiting for them to come round is going to be shorter than if this never ends, drags around and around the mulberry bush ya know? Because one can have your bro out of your life, but hes NOT gone if he's in your conversations and relationship with your parents. At this stage, difficult child bro has alot to be responsable for in causing this. However in spite of whatever protecting of him your parents do, he is NOT responsilbe for their choices or if they allow him to manipulate them. That is on their shoulders and is kinda sad really. So breaking your parents unhealthy patterns with your brother in terms of how they handle his issues via you? Can only help you. </p><p></p><p>I'm so sorry you go through ****. I do think it may be difficult for you to envision your parents being upset with you. Especially understandable since you've hoped obviously for a long time for them to see gfgbro the way you know him to be and to stand up for you and say Hey, No way! But it is what it is. And you love your parents. So rather than resent them innerly (who wouldn't in spite of loving them") and allow this emotional sparring to continue, you may want to really consider the least of two evils as your solution. Just stand up, say it, and then live it. And be prepared to have your parents distance themselves in hurt for a bit if they go that route. They seem clearly the type that will eventually grasp you mean what you are saying, and you can move forward then with them on a new and healthy path. Short term pain can mean long term gain. </p><p></p><p>Hang in there whatever happens. It is so hard handling adult family dynamics for so many of us. I'm glad you have your husband and your kids. And your parents too, who seem to clearly love you very much. The will let go of their need to try to be peacekeepers and truce negotiators if you eliminate the possibility completely and firmly.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mattsmom277, post: 364417, member: 4264"] It is sadly common that toxic people, when being pushed out of peoples lives for darn good long standing reasons, increase efforts to cause problems. Then, it sounds like your parents and you have a relationship that does allow for some decision making processes to be assumed a group decision (I mean by that, sounds like your mom in particular sees herself as having some right to a role in deciding choices in your life, your husbands, your childrens). While I completely see that somehow you will find a way to break the tie to your difficult child bro (you seem ready!), I wonder if you've considered that your mom is going to be a problem that will interfere with the process simply because she thinks one way, and doesn't understand that she truly has no say, and no right to a say, in decisions you make. Hard as it is, this cycle needs to be broken and most parents of your mothers age, are too set in their ways to choose to change. They see it as the way it is, and will remain. This leaves you. And your husband and your kids. And it may require putting up with your mom playing the wounded party for a while. And perhaps in defense of your moms feeling, even your dad playing the wounded party or supportive of your moms wounded person party. Know what I mean?? But they love you. And sometimes there is no "talking through it" to come to a understanding. Sometimes for your own sake, you have to take the rocky path to get to the end desired goal of having a relationship with your mom and dad, leaving your bro in your past, and while respecting their relationship with your brother, they too need to respect your lack of one. Probably the best thing is to just insist on not mentioning him, keep their relaitonship their own, and yours as yours. Period. Middle ground WILL continue this toxic cycle you are all in right now. And you can stand your ground and not see your bro again ever. And you will still suffer the after affect, due to the dynamic about this topic that is in place with you and your parents. Your parents are going to be who they are to your bro. Period. They aren't going to suddenly reject him and recognize how awful he has turned out to his own sister and demand a change from him or cut him out of their lives. Really, nobody is stupid about our kids. THey are in denial, its easier. They know their grown son acts like a complete prat. They simply are in the mindset many are, to not rock the boat. And rather than rock his boat and take on his ****, they stand firm to YOU by interfering and demanding certain things from you. Why? Because they can count on you being the one to not **** on them and to be more easily "managed". Are your parents bad people? Nope. They are quite typical it sounds, and loving, if misguided. So what can you do? YOU? That is what it boils down to. I can envision you saying "I will NOT discuss him with you. Not my lack of relationship. History is that, its gone. There is no future. As for your own relationship with him, that is your own personal decision and your right. I do NOT want to hear about your conversations, relationships, joys or problems with him, his life, his marriage or kids or anything to do with him, simply because it will lead to more particular conversations and land us right back here. And I'm DONE with here. As your daughter, I am asking for a continued healthy relationship with YOU. And I hope that happens. When you are ready for that, I'll be overjoyed. I do NOT ask you to choose, that is not part of some secret agenda. I simply have made a choice MYSELF, and thats it. You don't need to like it. I don't like lots of choices others make. But it is what it is. I don't want to hear opinions on my choices at all in fact because they change nothing about the decisions but they WILL impact OUR relationship, probably for the worse. And is that at all worth it? No it isn't. I look forward to a healthy relationship with love and laughs and visits etc. I can't imagine either of you would want to place a pricetag on that relationship of my continued endurance of what is deemed by me, my husband and kids, as abuse by a sibling that I have no relationship with. So, having said all that, it need not, and best not, even be discussed again, as there is no discussion room. This was me informing you of where I stand, not requesting nor needing validation in my choices, permission, dialogue, opinions, expressions of regret etc. Having said all that, I feel SO much better as our relationship means much more to me than I can say and I have done what must be done to ensure we can be happy in our each others lives. Moving on, how about dinner Sunday?" ;) And I can see a potential for a bit of a problem with them accepting it. But over time, the distress of waiting for them to come round is going to be shorter than if this never ends, drags around and around the mulberry bush ya know? Because one can have your bro out of your life, but hes NOT gone if he's in your conversations and relationship with your parents. At this stage, difficult child bro has alot to be responsable for in causing this. However in spite of whatever protecting of him your parents do, he is NOT responsilbe for their choices or if they allow him to manipulate them. That is on their shoulders and is kinda sad really. So breaking your parents unhealthy patterns with your brother in terms of how they handle his issues via you? Can only help you. I'm so sorry you go through ****. I do think it may be difficult for you to envision your parents being upset with you. Especially understandable since you've hoped obviously for a long time for them to see gfgbro the way you know him to be and to stand up for you and say Hey, No way! But it is what it is. And you love your parents. So rather than resent them innerly (who wouldn't in spite of loving them") and allow this emotional sparring to continue, you may want to really consider the least of two evils as your solution. Just stand up, say it, and then live it. And be prepared to have your parents distance themselves in hurt for a bit if they go that route. They seem clearly the type that will eventually grasp you mean what you are saying, and you can move forward then with them on a new and healthy path. Short term pain can mean long term gain. Hang in there whatever happens. It is so hard handling adult family dynamics for so many of us. I'm glad you have your husband and your kids. And your parents too, who seem to clearly love you very much. The will let go of their need to try to be peacekeepers and truce negotiators if you eliminate the possibility completely and firmly. [/QUOTE]
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