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update easy child and her boyfriend and what was on her neck....
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 217182" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Much as we'd like to, we can't wrap our kids in cotton wool and wait for pension age.</p><p></p><p>We had the hickey thing ("love bites", they're called here) with both girls. Especially easy child 2/difficult child 2. Now, easy child 2/difficult child 2 has what husband calls "round heels". In other words, push gently and she'll be flat on her back. metaphorically speaking. Or to put it more kindly, she is a cuddlebug and extremely sensuous, more than she understands or realises. She always wanted to snuggle, was very cuddly all the time (often at inappropriate times) and we KNEW that the first serious boyfriend was going to get to have sex with her fairly early. Some things you can't prevent, not without a chastity belt and they're illegal. Mind you, we did try - I'm not kidding when I talk about husband & I taking turns lying on the floor outside her bedroom door when boyfriend was staying over in the spare room (which in our house is outside the main house, a sleepout). We got both girls onto birth control when we felt we needed to, just before they were about to be sexually active. As it turned out, we missed the starter's gun and were just after.</p><p></p><p>Our concerns about early sex - </p><p>1) Health. HPV is the most likely cause of cervical cancer but another thing to consider is the earlier a girl has sex for the first time, the greater her risk. A problem is the immaturity of cells on the cervix - they are changing form immature type to mature type and the cells on this junction are most vulnerable right when they get hit by sperm cells which are designed to invade a cell and change its DNA (that was actually a well-favoured theory for cause of cervical cancer back in the 80s and 90s). Although HPV now takes the blame, there's still a chance that the previous theory holds as well. And all this is aside form other health concerns, most of which are connected more to promiscuity.</p><p></p><p>2) The emotional damage that can be done to either party can be immense. Usually it's worse for the girl who allows her boyfriend to go "all the way" because for a girl especially, there can be a very strong emotional connection to the other partner that is strengthened by having sex. If it is too casual, then people get hurt. With easy child 2/difficult child 2, I knew that in her case it would be the boyfriend who would get hurt more than her. She still suffered when they broke up but she was also relieved, because he was too suffocating. When we met him again (and his current girlfriend) we were struck by how much the new girlfriend is like easy child 2/difficult child 2, in appearance especially. He's not got over her; instead, he replaced her.</p><p></p><p>3) Once you have experienced sex, it is very difficult (if not impossible) to go back to celibacy. One more reason to not start, unless you're sure you're genuinely in love AND the other person feels the same way. So if your child has already had sex (and been burned) they will find avoiding it in the future even more difficult and you will need to be more understanding than you ever thought you could manage.</p><p></p><p>4) They are inexperienced and need to know that if they want the adult pleasures, they must take on the corresponding adult responsibilities. And if you don't know they're having sex, you don't know if they are being responsible.</p><p></p><p>Sexual responsibility is complex but first and foremost, is physical protection. They must be safe. Safe from pregnancy, safe from anything damaging to health (cervical cancer, sexually transmitted diseases, urinary tract infections), safe from physical injury or attack due to choosing to have sex in risky locations.</p><p></p><p>Next comes emotional responsibility. I already mentioned the need to be aware of the other person's investment in the emotional side of the relationship - both parties should be equally invested in the relationship, preferably deeply invested, before they choose to have sex. And it should be choice, informed choice, and not surprise or circumstances. It is so very easy for a heavy session to get out of hand and the young couple can suddenly discover that they just had sex when they didn't plan on it.</p><p>Part of emotional responsibility is sympathy and understanding of the other person, which does best when allied with love and respect. Each partner needs to understand this and require respect, including self-respect, from their partners. You do not do what you do not want to do, neither do you allow yourself to be treated with disrespect just as you should not show disrespect. This also requires a good understanding of what is respect. Where there is genuine love, this comes much more easily. Where it is infatuation, self-respect can be shoved onto the front seat when the teen climbs into the back seat.</p><p>Love for the other person should also make it easier to not pressure your partner into sex if/when they are reluctant (for whatever reason) and to also not be mean or critical for a less than stellar performance. Good sex takes practice. Youth has the advantage of hormonal overload allied with energy to burn. It does not provide experience or knowledge of how to please the other person. THAT takes practice as well as active, careful, loving study. Knowing to make that study is only the first step.</p><p></p><p>I see my role as parent not so much as stopping my kids from having sex before marriage (because you just can't stop them if they are determined enough) but educating, informing and supporting them in their understanding of the responsibilities of becoming sexually active individuals. My girls chose to become sexually active before marriage. Both are now living with their BFs in de facto relationships. For a while easy child 2/difficult child 2 was living with her boyfriend in the sleepout at our place. If we had tried to forbid this, they would simply have moved out together, away from our supervision, support and tuition. A few "wowsers" at church were critical of us (expressed to me, I don't think anyone dared to mention anything to husband) and I noted that these people did not at that time have teenage daughters. Those whose daughters were a little older than ours were noticeably silent on the topic. There was one exception - a man with three daughters. He was very vocal about how a man has to protect his daughters and keep them virgin at all costs. I didn't tell him what my daughters had told me - how his daughters openly boasted about climbing out the bedroom window at night to go drinking (under-age) and meeting their BFs.</p><p></p><p>The love-bite issue, when it came up with easy child 2/difficult child 2, we handled in a similar way to you. We pointed out that it showed lack of respect. But we also pointed out that it was broadcasting to all the other kids, their lack of finesse and skill. Inexperienced kids leave love-bites. More experienced lovers know exactly how to thrill without leaving marks. A hickey is the mark of clumsy adolescence. There are very few make-ups which can successfully cover a love-bite. The only ones which come close are the two-pack ones which are used to cover birthmarks. And even then, it still looks like you are wearing make-up. And apart from birthmarks, there is only one reason for wearing make-up on your neck when you're a teenager. The trick, however, is to use a foundation with green tones and top off with a paler concealer than you usually use.</p><p></p><p>But even then - it's still best to wear a scarf over the top. And remember, next time, to stop the boy from doing this. A girl needs to learn how to keep the brakes on her guy.</p><p></p><p>So please, parents - even if you're deeply religious, do not expect your children (especially with their rush of teen hormones) to share your enthusiasm for celibacy, at the time in their lives when it is most difficult. It's their decision, the best you can do is prepare them to make that an informed decision and to support them and keep them safe whichever path they choose. If your child is going to have sex anyway, then it needs to be as safely as possible. Allowing your child to have sex under your roof is maybe safer than insisting on no sex under your roof so they then go to lovers lanes and risk getting raped or worse by whatever weirdo hangs around those places to 'jump' young aspiring couples.</p><p></p><p>We probably all would love our children to wait until marriage before having sex. But these days it's extremely rare. We need to be prepared for the most likely reality and be prepared to live with it.</p><p></p><p>When I was in my late teens, I suffered from really bad period pain. I was living away from home at the time but still very much under the influence of my mother. She was concerned when the doctor finally put me on the Pill to deal with the severe period pain. The Pill worked like magic. I had had a boyfriend who wanted me on the Pill so he could safely have sex with me; I had never 'given in' to his demands because something in me held back. It's possible the Pill might have allowed him to bully me into sex, but I think I would perhaps have not told him about it to avoid the pressure from him.</p><p>I finally told my mother, "If the Pill is the only barrier to me choosing to have sex before marriage, then I'm abstaining for the wrong reasons."</p><p></p><p>It's only now, years after her death, that I've discovered why my mother was so terrified of any of us girls having premarital sex - it as what SHE had done, in the days before contraception, and it had changed her life forever when she fell pregnant and "had to get married". A quick registry wedding instead of the big family function, followed six months later by the birth of their first child, and then lying about it for the rest of their lives, forever afraid of being discovered in their lie and also of seeing history repeat itself in us.</p><p></p><p>My mother instilled in me such a fear of having sex, that it took years of patience from husband to turn this around. It was the final weapon in her armoury in what she perceived as a war against sexuality. I never wanted to do that to my kids.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 217182, member: 1991"] Much as we'd like to, we can't wrap our kids in cotton wool and wait for pension age. We had the hickey thing ("love bites", they're called here) with both girls. Especially easy child 2/difficult child 2. Now, easy child 2/difficult child 2 has what husband calls "round heels". In other words, push gently and she'll be flat on her back. metaphorically speaking. Or to put it more kindly, she is a cuddlebug and extremely sensuous, more than she understands or realises. She always wanted to snuggle, was very cuddly all the time (often at inappropriate times) and we KNEW that the first serious boyfriend was going to get to have sex with her fairly early. Some things you can't prevent, not without a chastity belt and they're illegal. Mind you, we did try - I'm not kidding when I talk about husband & I taking turns lying on the floor outside her bedroom door when boyfriend was staying over in the spare room (which in our house is outside the main house, a sleepout). We got both girls onto birth control when we felt we needed to, just before they were about to be sexually active. As it turned out, we missed the starter's gun and were just after. Our concerns about early sex - 1) Health. HPV is the most likely cause of cervical cancer but another thing to consider is the earlier a girl has sex for the first time, the greater her risk. A problem is the immaturity of cells on the cervix - they are changing form immature type to mature type and the cells on this junction are most vulnerable right when they get hit by sperm cells which are designed to invade a cell and change its DNA (that was actually a well-favoured theory for cause of cervical cancer back in the 80s and 90s). Although HPV now takes the blame, there's still a chance that the previous theory holds as well. And all this is aside form other health concerns, most of which are connected more to promiscuity. 2) The emotional damage that can be done to either party can be immense. Usually it's worse for the girl who allows her boyfriend to go "all the way" because for a girl especially, there can be a very strong emotional connection to the other partner that is strengthened by having sex. If it is too casual, then people get hurt. With easy child 2/difficult child 2, I knew that in her case it would be the boyfriend who would get hurt more than her. She still suffered when they broke up but she was also relieved, because he was too suffocating. When we met him again (and his current girlfriend) we were struck by how much the new girlfriend is like easy child 2/difficult child 2, in appearance especially. He's not got over her; instead, he replaced her. 3) Once you have experienced sex, it is very difficult (if not impossible) to go back to celibacy. One more reason to not start, unless you're sure you're genuinely in love AND the other person feels the same way. So if your child has already had sex (and been burned) they will find avoiding it in the future even more difficult and you will need to be more understanding than you ever thought you could manage. 4) They are inexperienced and need to know that if they want the adult pleasures, they must take on the corresponding adult responsibilities. And if you don't know they're having sex, you don't know if they are being responsible. Sexual responsibility is complex but first and foremost, is physical protection. They must be safe. Safe from pregnancy, safe from anything damaging to health (cervical cancer, sexually transmitted diseases, urinary tract infections), safe from physical injury or attack due to choosing to have sex in risky locations. Next comes emotional responsibility. I already mentioned the need to be aware of the other person's investment in the emotional side of the relationship - both parties should be equally invested in the relationship, preferably deeply invested, before they choose to have sex. And it should be choice, informed choice, and not surprise or circumstances. It is so very easy for a heavy session to get out of hand and the young couple can suddenly discover that they just had sex when they didn't plan on it. Part of emotional responsibility is sympathy and understanding of the other person, which does best when allied with love and respect. Each partner needs to understand this and require respect, including self-respect, from their partners. You do not do what you do not want to do, neither do you allow yourself to be treated with disrespect just as you should not show disrespect. This also requires a good understanding of what is respect. Where there is genuine love, this comes much more easily. Where it is infatuation, self-respect can be shoved onto the front seat when the teen climbs into the back seat. Love for the other person should also make it easier to not pressure your partner into sex if/when they are reluctant (for whatever reason) and to also not be mean or critical for a less than stellar performance. Good sex takes practice. Youth has the advantage of hormonal overload allied with energy to burn. It does not provide experience or knowledge of how to please the other person. THAT takes practice as well as active, careful, loving study. Knowing to make that study is only the first step. I see my role as parent not so much as stopping my kids from having sex before marriage (because you just can't stop them if they are determined enough) but educating, informing and supporting them in their understanding of the responsibilities of becoming sexually active individuals. My girls chose to become sexually active before marriage. Both are now living with their BFs in de facto relationships. For a while easy child 2/difficult child 2 was living with her boyfriend in the sleepout at our place. If we had tried to forbid this, they would simply have moved out together, away from our supervision, support and tuition. A few "wowsers" at church were critical of us (expressed to me, I don't think anyone dared to mention anything to husband) and I noted that these people did not at that time have teenage daughters. Those whose daughters were a little older than ours were noticeably silent on the topic. There was one exception - a man with three daughters. He was very vocal about how a man has to protect his daughters and keep them virgin at all costs. I didn't tell him what my daughters had told me - how his daughters openly boasted about climbing out the bedroom window at night to go drinking (under-age) and meeting their BFs. The love-bite issue, when it came up with easy child 2/difficult child 2, we handled in a similar way to you. We pointed out that it showed lack of respect. But we also pointed out that it was broadcasting to all the other kids, their lack of finesse and skill. Inexperienced kids leave love-bites. More experienced lovers know exactly how to thrill without leaving marks. A hickey is the mark of clumsy adolescence. There are very few make-ups which can successfully cover a love-bite. The only ones which come close are the two-pack ones which are used to cover birthmarks. And even then, it still looks like you are wearing make-up. And apart from birthmarks, there is only one reason for wearing make-up on your neck when you're a teenager. The trick, however, is to use a foundation with green tones and top off with a paler concealer than you usually use. But even then - it's still best to wear a scarf over the top. And remember, next time, to stop the boy from doing this. A girl needs to learn how to keep the brakes on her guy. So please, parents - even if you're deeply religious, do not expect your children (especially with their rush of teen hormones) to share your enthusiasm for celibacy, at the time in their lives when it is most difficult. It's their decision, the best you can do is prepare them to make that an informed decision and to support them and keep them safe whichever path they choose. If your child is going to have sex anyway, then it needs to be as safely as possible. Allowing your child to have sex under your roof is maybe safer than insisting on no sex under your roof so they then go to lovers lanes and risk getting raped or worse by whatever weirdo hangs around those places to 'jump' young aspiring couples. We probably all would love our children to wait until marriage before having sex. But these days it's extremely rare. We need to be prepared for the most likely reality and be prepared to live with it. When I was in my late teens, I suffered from really bad period pain. I was living away from home at the time but still very much under the influence of my mother. She was concerned when the doctor finally put me on the Pill to deal with the severe period pain. The Pill worked like magic. I had had a boyfriend who wanted me on the Pill so he could safely have sex with me; I had never 'given in' to his demands because something in me held back. It's possible the Pill might have allowed him to bully me into sex, but I think I would perhaps have not told him about it to avoid the pressure from him. I finally told my mother, "If the Pill is the only barrier to me choosing to have sex before marriage, then I'm abstaining for the wrong reasons." It's only now, years after her death, that I've discovered why my mother was so terrified of any of us girls having premarital sex - it as what SHE had done, in the days before contraception, and it had changed her life forever when she fell pregnant and "had to get married". A quick registry wedding instead of the big family function, followed six months later by the birth of their first child, and then lying about it for the rest of their lives, forever afraid of being discovered in their lie and also of seeing history repeat itself in us. My mother instilled in me such a fear of having sex, that it took years of patience from husband to turn this around. It was the final weapon in her armoury in what she perceived as a war against sexuality. I never wanted to do that to my kids. Marg [/QUOTE]
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