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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 170374" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I had a long post almost finished, when I kicked out the power lead for the computer!</p><p></p><p>Oh, well...</p><p></p><p>Skeemi, you wrote (in the post that smallworld pasted here), "I think that I held her 24 hours a day since the day she came home and probably almost invaded her space more that I should have because I was so happy to have had her."</p><p></p><p>I did the same thing with difficult child 3 - because I could, and because I needed to for myself, since I was dealing with my own PTSD from a number of issues including a traumatic delivery. And I do not think difficult child 3 has any problems as a result of this. As long as you were not forcing your child to be held when she didn't want to, I doubt that you caused her harm by holding her. It is a natural thing to do.</p><p></p><p>However, a number of things in your description were ringing bells with me, making me think of various forms of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) especially Asperger's or high-functioning autism, even before I read MWM's post. The aloofness; the almost rejection of you and preferrring others (including total strangers). easy child 2/difficult child 2 would run from me and run to strangers, usually male, mostly with facial hair. There were even times when a bearded man would look at me suspiciously, asking why this golden-haired child was running away from this harassing woman.</p><p></p><p>There are always reasons for what our kids do, but sometimes they are not the reasons we expect. When difficult child 1 was scared of animals (to the point of sheer hysterical terror at a kitten on the other side of the road looking as if it was about to cross to our side) then people said that he must have had a nasty experience which frightened him. But he hadn't. We never did find out why he was afraid. There were other things which also frightened him - again, no reason was ever found. He was too young to tell us.</p><p></p><p>In my earlier (and lost) post I was describing a lot of similar things we observed in all three of our younger kids. But I won't go into that detail now, unless you ask me to, because I could go on and on. Let's just say that the apparent rejection you describe, the blank stare, the lack of reaction to your voice, the running to total strangers etc - it is all familiar. With difficult child 3, he wouldn't come when called but would wander off because he was so self-sufficient as well as totally oblivious to family connections and bonding. I felt that my kids only needed me for feeding, and that was all. Even easy child (allegedly a easy child) would allow me to cuddle her only when being breastfed. As soon as SHE decided she was finished, she would push away from me to get down on the floor - there were a lot of things happening in the world and she begrudged the time it took her to get nourishment. I had no purpose for her except to provide milk. And that is my easy child!</p><p></p><p>Mind you, difficult child 1 and easy child 2/difficult child 2 both enjoyed being held and cuddled. difficult child 3 would also happily tolerate being held but HE would push away when he felt enough was enough.</p><p></p><p>I thought difficult child 3 was my perfect baby, after having "paid my dues" with the first three. He fed well, he slept well, he rarely cried. He enjoyed being outdoors and loved going for walks, especially looking at trees. I didn't realise at the time, but that extremely early fascination for trees, especially being up very close to them with light flickering behind the trees - I suspect he was stimming, from his 2nd week.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3 was also my child genius, even more than easy child 2/difficult child 2. She didn't seem to really develop as a child genius until she was 2. difficult child 2, on the other hand, was playing piano and using a computer before 12 months of age. We thought it was cute, and funny, the way he would watch a certain TV game show when still a very small baby propped up on pillows on my bed. He would get fretful during the ad breaks, then his attention would be riveted on the TV while the show was on. It was bizarre because this particular game show had no fast-paced visuals, it was just three heads with their score and name under each one. It was amusing to see it, just as you would chuckle to see a photo of a baby sitting on a toilet, holding a newspaper to make it look like the baby was reading.</p><p>But this happened night after night. Every time. Bizarre.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3 is incredibly bright. So is easy child 2/difficult child 2. So are the others, almost certainly. We've been told that siblings are generally within 10 IQ points of one another.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 1 is the most withdrawn of my kids, but when he's fired up with friends, or even talking to strangers about something he's keen on, his face will light up and he gets very talkative, very enthusiastic. The others - life of the party. Good eye contact, all of them (although with easy child 2/difficult child 2 and difficult child 1, less eye contact especially when in their teens with people they feel nervous of such as bullying teachers). Doing well academically (especially easy child 2/difficult child 2 and difficult child 3 - easy child was a star pupil, goes without saying).</p><p></p><p>All of them were popular at pre-school and school. Lots of friends. difficult child 3 was not so obviously socially inept in Kindergarten, because at that age ALL kids are a bit inept socially. Kids don't play socially until about age 6 or more. That is when the gulf widened for difficult child 3. The other kids - still had friends, still always with others.</p><p></p><p>The understanding of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) (which includes high-functioning autism and Asperger's as well as other conditions) is sometimes confusing. People get it wrong, often. THis includes alleged experts. difficult child 3's school counsellor actually said to me in a Learning Team meeting, "It's so good his language delay is now gone. And to see him mixing so well in the playground - aren't you glad that he's no longer autistic?"</p><p></p><p>Your daughter may well have something entirely different to Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) in any form. However, I do think she needs to be checked out for Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), thoroughly, and for anything else other than just Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) (which doesn't sound right to me, with your description of the contact between you).</p><p></p><p>The tantrums you describe - they could be anything, including Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). Certainly we've had them. easy child 2/difficult child 2 is still capable of a tantrum at 21. difficult child 3 is too, but we use "Explosive Child" techniques to keep him managed as best we can.</p><p></p><p>You are concerned about medication you took during pregnancy, as well as all the procedures the poor kid had to go through. I don't blame you being concerned. I've wondered for a long time about the medications I was on during my last three pregnancies, to try to prevent miscarriage. I was on double the dosage with difficult child 3, for most of the pregnancy. Could it be a factor? I've been told no, but I'm still sceptical.</p><p></p><p>I remember when easy child was about 2 years old and had an attack of what was thought at the time to be pyelitis. She had to have an IVP, which worried me a lot. As it turned out, she sailed through it and was found to have normal kidneys (and not the defective one I had inherited). But that was just one test.</p><p></p><p>You also express concern that her behaviour is worst towards you and she's fine with others - this is actually quite common for many of us, across a wide range of disorders. A child who has to struggle to hold things together will work harder for people whose reactions she is more unsure of; she will relax her guard with those she feels safest with. Therefore we often see the kid who has behaved well at school, but who comes home and tears the place apart in a towering rage.</p><p></p><p>I have to constantly come to terms with the medications I took while pregnant. But I tell myself - if I hadn't taken the medications, I might not have the kids. It was Hobson's Choice.</p><p></p><p>And as the kids have grown older and I see them develop into the wonderful, capable, brilliant human beings they are becoming, I am very glad of their existence. I still am surprised though, because these are MY kids and OF COURSE I think they are wonderful. But people who haven't known them long (or have only just met them) will come up to me and say wonderful things.</p><p>Example: difficult child 3 was at a school study day (he does the vast bulk of his schooling at home, with me, because it is quieter and he can concentrate better - he has ADHD as well as autism). Other kids who go to the same school (ie study away from a mainstream location) are sometimes physically disabled, or in the case of THIS school, are professional dancers or athletes. A few weeks ago difficult child 3 had a Science study day. I was sitting with him and thinking he was not really responding to the lesson at all, apart from the occasional answer, when during a short break one of the professional dancer students spoke to me and said, "difficult child 3 is so smart - what is he like at home? Does he read a lot? Does he do a lot of extra study?" [at home he throws tantrums. No, he doesn't study.]</p><p>We've had similar reactions form teachers who meet him for the first time at these study days. It seems bizarre to me.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3 used to be indifferent to me or to displays of affection. It was mother in law who broke through this by saying to him every time she saw him, "I love you, difficult child 3." So I guess it was only right that mother in law was the first one to whom he ever said, "I love you" in response.</p><p></p><p>He's a teenager now. He will accept a hug, he also isn't as inhibited as other teenage boys about hugs, but generally is not demonstrative. If I ask for a hug I will get one, as a rule.</p><p></p><p>If your daughter's problems are due to the medications or the treatment, does it help to be able to lay blame? Because what else could you have done?</p><p></p><p>I can now also look back in the family, on both sides, and see similarities. So even if medications were involved, I know that there are probably other factors too.</p><p></p><p>It could well be the same with you. Who knows what other factors in your daughter, could have all contributed to the sparkling whole that she is?</p><p></p><p>I could wish for difficult child 3's autism to be magicked away, but if it were, what would my boy become? WHat would remain?</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3 is who and what he is, because of what he has been and what he has been through. His fascination for certain topics is part of his make-up. It is also at least partly connected to his autism. His ability to problem-solve and to concentrate on a number of complex details of various topics - probably also connected to his autism. Even his amazing intellect is probably connected to his autism. So much of him, which I can claim is partly due to upbringing as well, is also connected to autism. His loyalty; his deep emotional responses; his preference for honesty and uprightness - it all connects. And it is all so much valued that I couldn't wish it gone. I l=have to love him and accept him as the complete whole that he is, including his autism. </p><p></p><p>We have taught him, and the others, the same. whatever their diagnosis, it is an integral part of them and we love it too, even while we feel frustrated sometimes at the problems that come with it. There are good things and bad things, as with every individual who has strengths and weaknesses.</p><p></p><p>So again, Skeemi, welcome. And remember, your daughter is only 4. Many of us have seen diagnosis's come and go a lot, when handed out so early in a child's upbringing.</p><p></p><p>It's also possible (happens a lot) for a child to have more than one diagnosis.</p><p></p><p>So keep an open mind, maybe consider a multidiscplinary evaluation to confirm/challenge a diagnosis.</p><p></p><p>And with those tantrums - read "Explosive Child" and see if you recognise her.</p><p></p><p>Good to have you on board!</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 170374, member: 1991"] I had a long post almost finished, when I kicked out the power lead for the computer! Oh, well... Skeemi, you wrote (in the post that smallworld pasted here), "I think that I held her 24 hours a day since the day she came home and probably almost invaded her space more that I should have because I was so happy to have had her." I did the same thing with difficult child 3 - because I could, and because I needed to for myself, since I was dealing with my own PTSD from a number of issues including a traumatic delivery. And I do not think difficult child 3 has any problems as a result of this. As long as you were not forcing your child to be held when she didn't want to, I doubt that you caused her harm by holding her. It is a natural thing to do. However, a number of things in your description were ringing bells with me, making me think of various forms of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) especially Asperger's or high-functioning autism, even before I read MWM's post. The aloofness; the almost rejection of you and preferrring others (including total strangers). easy child 2/difficult child 2 would run from me and run to strangers, usually male, mostly with facial hair. There were even times when a bearded man would look at me suspiciously, asking why this golden-haired child was running away from this harassing woman. There are always reasons for what our kids do, but sometimes they are not the reasons we expect. When difficult child 1 was scared of animals (to the point of sheer hysterical terror at a kitten on the other side of the road looking as if it was about to cross to our side) then people said that he must have had a nasty experience which frightened him. But he hadn't. We never did find out why he was afraid. There were other things which also frightened him - again, no reason was ever found. He was too young to tell us. In my earlier (and lost) post I was describing a lot of similar things we observed in all three of our younger kids. But I won't go into that detail now, unless you ask me to, because I could go on and on. Let's just say that the apparent rejection you describe, the blank stare, the lack of reaction to your voice, the running to total strangers etc - it is all familiar. With difficult child 3, he wouldn't come when called but would wander off because he was so self-sufficient as well as totally oblivious to family connections and bonding. I felt that my kids only needed me for feeding, and that was all. Even easy child (allegedly a easy child) would allow me to cuddle her only when being breastfed. As soon as SHE decided she was finished, she would push away from me to get down on the floor - there were a lot of things happening in the world and she begrudged the time it took her to get nourishment. I had no purpose for her except to provide milk. And that is my easy child! Mind you, difficult child 1 and easy child 2/difficult child 2 both enjoyed being held and cuddled. difficult child 3 would also happily tolerate being held but HE would push away when he felt enough was enough. I thought difficult child 3 was my perfect baby, after having "paid my dues" with the first three. He fed well, he slept well, he rarely cried. He enjoyed being outdoors and loved going for walks, especially looking at trees. I didn't realise at the time, but that extremely early fascination for trees, especially being up very close to them with light flickering behind the trees - I suspect he was stimming, from his 2nd week. difficult child 3 was also my child genius, even more than easy child 2/difficult child 2. She didn't seem to really develop as a child genius until she was 2. difficult child 2, on the other hand, was playing piano and using a computer before 12 months of age. We thought it was cute, and funny, the way he would watch a certain TV game show when still a very small baby propped up on pillows on my bed. He would get fretful during the ad breaks, then his attention would be riveted on the TV while the show was on. It was bizarre because this particular game show had no fast-paced visuals, it was just three heads with their score and name under each one. It was amusing to see it, just as you would chuckle to see a photo of a baby sitting on a toilet, holding a newspaper to make it look like the baby was reading. But this happened night after night. Every time. Bizarre. difficult child 3 is incredibly bright. So is easy child 2/difficult child 2. So are the others, almost certainly. We've been told that siblings are generally within 10 IQ points of one another. difficult child 1 is the most withdrawn of my kids, but when he's fired up with friends, or even talking to strangers about something he's keen on, his face will light up and he gets very talkative, very enthusiastic. The others - life of the party. Good eye contact, all of them (although with easy child 2/difficult child 2 and difficult child 1, less eye contact especially when in their teens with people they feel nervous of such as bullying teachers). Doing well academically (especially easy child 2/difficult child 2 and difficult child 3 - easy child was a star pupil, goes without saying). All of them were popular at pre-school and school. Lots of friends. difficult child 3 was not so obviously socially inept in Kindergarten, because at that age ALL kids are a bit inept socially. Kids don't play socially until about age 6 or more. That is when the gulf widened for difficult child 3. The other kids - still had friends, still always with others. The understanding of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) (which includes high-functioning autism and Asperger's as well as other conditions) is sometimes confusing. People get it wrong, often. THis includes alleged experts. difficult child 3's school counsellor actually said to me in a Learning Team meeting, "It's so good his language delay is now gone. And to see him mixing so well in the playground - aren't you glad that he's no longer autistic?" Your daughter may well have something entirely different to Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) in any form. However, I do think she needs to be checked out for Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), thoroughly, and for anything else other than just Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) (which doesn't sound right to me, with your description of the contact between you). The tantrums you describe - they could be anything, including Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). Certainly we've had them. easy child 2/difficult child 2 is still capable of a tantrum at 21. difficult child 3 is too, but we use "Explosive Child" techniques to keep him managed as best we can. You are concerned about medication you took during pregnancy, as well as all the procedures the poor kid had to go through. I don't blame you being concerned. I've wondered for a long time about the medications I was on during my last three pregnancies, to try to prevent miscarriage. I was on double the dosage with difficult child 3, for most of the pregnancy. Could it be a factor? I've been told no, but I'm still sceptical. I remember when easy child was about 2 years old and had an attack of what was thought at the time to be pyelitis. She had to have an IVP, which worried me a lot. As it turned out, she sailed through it and was found to have normal kidneys (and not the defective one I had inherited). But that was just one test. You also express concern that her behaviour is worst towards you and she's fine with others - this is actually quite common for many of us, across a wide range of disorders. A child who has to struggle to hold things together will work harder for people whose reactions she is more unsure of; she will relax her guard with those she feels safest with. Therefore we often see the kid who has behaved well at school, but who comes home and tears the place apart in a towering rage. I have to constantly come to terms with the medications I took while pregnant. But I tell myself - if I hadn't taken the medications, I might not have the kids. It was Hobson's Choice. And as the kids have grown older and I see them develop into the wonderful, capable, brilliant human beings they are becoming, I am very glad of their existence. I still am surprised though, because these are MY kids and OF COURSE I think they are wonderful. But people who haven't known them long (or have only just met them) will come up to me and say wonderful things. Example: difficult child 3 was at a school study day (he does the vast bulk of his schooling at home, with me, because it is quieter and he can concentrate better - he has ADHD as well as autism). Other kids who go to the same school (ie study away from a mainstream location) are sometimes physically disabled, or in the case of THIS school, are professional dancers or athletes. A few weeks ago difficult child 3 had a Science study day. I was sitting with him and thinking he was not really responding to the lesson at all, apart from the occasional answer, when during a short break one of the professional dancer students spoke to me and said, "difficult child 3 is so smart - what is he like at home? Does he read a lot? Does he do a lot of extra study?" [at home he throws tantrums. No, he doesn't study.] We've had similar reactions form teachers who meet him for the first time at these study days. It seems bizarre to me. difficult child 3 used to be indifferent to me or to displays of affection. It was mother in law who broke through this by saying to him every time she saw him, "I love you, difficult child 3." So I guess it was only right that mother in law was the first one to whom he ever said, "I love you" in response. He's a teenager now. He will accept a hug, he also isn't as inhibited as other teenage boys about hugs, but generally is not demonstrative. If I ask for a hug I will get one, as a rule. If your daughter's problems are due to the medications or the treatment, does it help to be able to lay blame? Because what else could you have done? I can now also look back in the family, on both sides, and see similarities. So even if medications were involved, I know that there are probably other factors too. It could well be the same with you. Who knows what other factors in your daughter, could have all contributed to the sparkling whole that she is? I could wish for difficult child 3's autism to be magicked away, but if it were, what would my boy become? WHat would remain? difficult child 3 is who and what he is, because of what he has been and what he has been through. His fascination for certain topics is part of his make-up. It is also at least partly connected to his autism. His ability to problem-solve and to concentrate on a number of complex details of various topics - probably also connected to his autism. Even his amazing intellect is probably connected to his autism. So much of him, which I can claim is partly due to upbringing as well, is also connected to autism. His loyalty; his deep emotional responses; his preference for honesty and uprightness - it all connects. And it is all so much valued that I couldn't wish it gone. I l=have to love him and accept him as the complete whole that he is, including his autism. We have taught him, and the others, the same. whatever their diagnosis, it is an integral part of them and we love it too, even while we feel frustrated sometimes at the problems that come with it. There are good things and bad things, as with every individual who has strengths and weaknesses. So again, Skeemi, welcome. And remember, your daughter is only 4. Many of us have seen diagnosis's come and go a lot, when handed out so early in a child's upbringing. It's also possible (happens a lot) for a child to have more than one diagnosis. So keep an open mind, maybe consider a multidiscplinary evaluation to confirm/challenge a diagnosis. And with those tantrums - read "Explosive Child" and see if you recognise her. Good to have you on board! Marg [/QUOTE]
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