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Substance Abuse
What if "IT" never gets better? Or, it gets worse?
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<blockquote data-quote="susiestar" data-source="post: 565759" data-attributes="member: 1233"><p>Sig, I think Janet is right on the money about the petulant toddler in the young adult's body.</p><p></p><p>I also think your son has WAY too much power over you. I can easily remember what we all went through as my brother did much of what your son is doing. I remember my mother very clearly and explicitly telling him that he was enjoying a lifestyle earned with the salary of two professionals with college/grad school degrees and doing less than minimum wage to earn it. By this point he had graduated high school at 16yrs and 2 months of age, gone to college while living at home for 2 years because my parents forced him to. He was drinking when he was 12 by getting it from older kids nad then at one point he was in a school where he had to change busses in a downtown area and he got winos to buy alcohol and porn for him. He was 13 when he started that. He also stole communion wine from his very expensive private school, where my parents sent him because it was this 'strict' school that had all the boys skip grades seven and eight or go to juvenile hall because he was bored. So by the time he was 18 he was a junior iwth an almost perfect gpa. So they allowed him to move into the dorm for upper classmen. He then, less than a mile from our home, drank and gambled his way to a 1.5 semester GPA. My parents talked iwth him, thought he saw the light and allowed him to stay because they had to pay for the dorm the whole year anyway. He got a 1.3 GPA that semester. This is a good school, but pretty much any trained monkey who can write his name on a test can get at least a low C. even if they skipped most of the classes. A's take real work, but C's are easy. Esp with the super easy classes he was taking. He truly had harder classes in the private school before we moved to OK. </p><p></p><p>So they let him come home. They refused to see that he was drinking and using pot, much less to believe that he would take literally ANYTHING including mushrooms he found growing in the wild, after he had about six drinks in him. I knew, and was told not to lie because he wouldn't do that. So I shut up about it. Even finding him passed out on the sidewalk outside our home was written off as 'depression' about something. </p><p></p><p>After he came home he took full advantage of their luxuries and paid zero bills. This lasted a short while. WHen my mother learned that almost all of the tools she had inherited or been given by her father were either ruined from being left outside or were just gone, she freaked. Her dad owned a hardware store and she worked their for years. her whole childhood. He had a LOT of top quality tools nad as a family and individually we did a LOT of work with those tools - projects ranged from building a small table or fixing something to building a garage all by ourselves except for some help with the trusses and hiring a company to bring in the concrete. To have them ALL gone, poof?? Was the last straw. </p><p></p><p>She told him that if he wanted to not go to school, to live on what he could make with minimum wage? then he could go live that min wage lifestyle. He had two weeks to get out. Two days later he come and said he joined the Army. It was good for him. He couldn't keep a promotion because of his attitude toward authority, but he did last the 2 yrs. Became a hard core alcoholic (as if he wasn't already, but it got a LOT worse) after 15 mos in Germany, but he also had some great learning and growing up experiences. </p><p></p><p>I think you need to figure out how to not have yourself so tied up in him. I know it is hard. I had to let go of my oldest LONG before I was ready or else it would have ended with one of us in prison or the grave. And I do NOT mean that figuratively. I do know that your son NEEDS to do this his own way. I know you dont want to cut him off, but he does not respect you in any way, shape or form. He is not going to understand your position until he is a parent. It is what it is. You cannot change this. Allowing him to live with your luxuries including good food, nice house, not having to haul his laundry to a laundromat and pay for it, central heat and air, a car to use even a little, cable/satellite tv, free internet, pets with no food or vet bills, these are ALL things he could not afford if he was living the life he claims to want.</p><p></p><p>Life isn't easy. At his age you probably had kids or were in school or both. I know I was working almost 30 hrs a week, had no car and rode a bike everywhere, took a full load of classes and I was dealing with two very painful chronic diseases. I lived with my parents but I did a LOT of chores there too. I did almost all of the grocery shopping. I ran most of the errands around town. I did my laundry and if my folks had stuff in the machines, I moved it through and folded/hung up the load when dry BEFORE I put mine it. I cooked many meals and when we got a sale on meat I helped cook and/or package it for the freezer. I also made most of the birthday and holiday gifts myself.</p><p></p><p>By age 22 I was married and I had a baby shortly after that. We did NOT live with our parents and we did NOT depend on them to support us. </p><p></p><p>I know your son is using his atitude to punish you and it is working. You have GOT to find a way to not let him know it is bothering you. in my opinion you need to figure out why you have this need to have him like you so much that it is ripping you apart that he is showing you such disdain. It is normal to have some pain over this, but i think maybe you should look at why it has been so gut-wrenching. For me it was that way but my son was 14 and it was way too early. I hate the distance between us, but I have faith that in time he will see that we daughter the best we could and he was an exceptionally troubled child. I think if he hadn't gone to my parents where I was not there to be a buffer between him and my brother that we would not ever speak to each other yet. He sees how horribly hateful my brother is, and he doesn't want his siblings to experience the pain that he saw me go through after each attack and when I knew one was coming. </p><p></p><p>I did get therapy to help me get to this point. I think we ALL see too many tv families where problems are solved in an hour or less and where there are not the huge problems that we have to face in real life. </p><p></p><p>I do think LMS is right about trusting God or your higher power to handle things. You are trying so HARD to make his life what you thought it would be, and you are allowing him not to have to truly grow up. He has known this entire time that if he was polite or nice to you then he could come home. He probably thinks that he didn't HAVE to be nice to you but he is doing it because he is a good guy. He clearly feels that you OWE him the lifestyle that he was accustomed to as a child/teen. Sure he moved out, did it 'on his own' but you bailed him out each time he came and acted remorseful and like he would start to fly right. He CLEARLY thinks that he can do what he wants as long as you don't know he is high/drunk while at your home. This is NOT what he NEEDS from you.</p><p></p><p>He NEEDS you to kick him out. To let him live whatever lifestyle he wants to afford with his own money. that is being an adult and it will result in either the decision to stay drunk/high or to get his koi together and do what he has to in order to eat and pay bills. He is SMART. So far he is using that intelligence to use and to drink and to get around your rules by following an absolute minimum that he has taught you is all you can expect from him. What is this teaching the other kids? I PROMISE that they are missing NOTHING. NOT. ONE. THING.</p><p></p><p>I was your other kids - the good grades, the chores, the jobs, the extracurriculars, the scholarships, etc.... I also had serious health issues. maybe in a way those were a blessing because I knew that if I used/drank and took my medications it would likely kill me. So if I wanted to drink? I skipped medications for a day or two. And I paid for it in huge increases in pain for several days. But mostly I did not drink or use because I didn't want to be ANYTHING like my gfgbro. I didn't want to hurt my folks that way, to abuse people that way, to waste my life that way. </p><p></p><p>I had a lot of friends who did follow older sibs into drugs/alcohol. They saw that their parents pretty much gave up and just kept shelling out the money as long as the sub abuse and general life wasting wasn't rubbed into their noses. Do you want the other kids to learn that they can go out until all hours, sleep all day if they don't have work, and they can live a lifestyle that is enormously above their means too? Or do you want them to make other choices? How you handle this WILL have an impact on their life choices also. </p><p></p><p>Let him go live on what he is earning until he gets tired enough to make some changes. After you see real, actual PROOF of these changes, then you can offer some minimal help. If he continues to make good choices, then you can think about offering to pay for school. </p><p></p><p>You need to do this for ALL of your kids. Not just difficult child.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="susiestar, post: 565759, member: 1233"] Sig, I think Janet is right on the money about the petulant toddler in the young adult's body. I also think your son has WAY too much power over you. I can easily remember what we all went through as my brother did much of what your son is doing. I remember my mother very clearly and explicitly telling him that he was enjoying a lifestyle earned with the salary of two professionals with college/grad school degrees and doing less than minimum wage to earn it. By this point he had graduated high school at 16yrs and 2 months of age, gone to college while living at home for 2 years because my parents forced him to. He was drinking when he was 12 by getting it from older kids nad then at one point he was in a school where he had to change busses in a downtown area and he got winos to buy alcohol and porn for him. He was 13 when he started that. He also stole communion wine from his very expensive private school, where my parents sent him because it was this 'strict' school that had all the boys skip grades seven and eight or go to juvenile hall because he was bored. So by the time he was 18 he was a junior iwth an almost perfect gpa. So they allowed him to move into the dorm for upper classmen. He then, less than a mile from our home, drank and gambled his way to a 1.5 semester GPA. My parents talked iwth him, thought he saw the light and allowed him to stay because they had to pay for the dorm the whole year anyway. He got a 1.3 GPA that semester. This is a good school, but pretty much any trained monkey who can write his name on a test can get at least a low C. even if they skipped most of the classes. A's take real work, but C's are easy. Esp with the super easy classes he was taking. He truly had harder classes in the private school before we moved to OK. So they let him come home. They refused to see that he was drinking and using pot, much less to believe that he would take literally ANYTHING including mushrooms he found growing in the wild, after he had about six drinks in him. I knew, and was told not to lie because he wouldn't do that. So I shut up about it. Even finding him passed out on the sidewalk outside our home was written off as 'depression' about something. After he came home he took full advantage of their luxuries and paid zero bills. This lasted a short while. WHen my mother learned that almost all of the tools she had inherited or been given by her father were either ruined from being left outside or were just gone, she freaked. Her dad owned a hardware store and she worked their for years. her whole childhood. He had a LOT of top quality tools nad as a family and individually we did a LOT of work with those tools - projects ranged from building a small table or fixing something to building a garage all by ourselves except for some help with the trusses and hiring a company to bring in the concrete. To have them ALL gone, poof?? Was the last straw. She told him that if he wanted to not go to school, to live on what he could make with minimum wage? then he could go live that min wage lifestyle. He had two weeks to get out. Two days later he come and said he joined the Army. It was good for him. He couldn't keep a promotion because of his attitude toward authority, but he did last the 2 yrs. Became a hard core alcoholic (as if he wasn't already, but it got a LOT worse) after 15 mos in Germany, but he also had some great learning and growing up experiences. I think you need to figure out how to not have yourself so tied up in him. I know it is hard. I had to let go of my oldest LONG before I was ready or else it would have ended with one of us in prison or the grave. And I do NOT mean that figuratively. I do know that your son NEEDS to do this his own way. I know you dont want to cut him off, but he does not respect you in any way, shape or form. He is not going to understand your position until he is a parent. It is what it is. You cannot change this. Allowing him to live with your luxuries including good food, nice house, not having to haul his laundry to a laundromat and pay for it, central heat and air, a car to use even a little, cable/satellite tv, free internet, pets with no food or vet bills, these are ALL things he could not afford if he was living the life he claims to want. Life isn't easy. At his age you probably had kids or were in school or both. I know I was working almost 30 hrs a week, had no car and rode a bike everywhere, took a full load of classes and I was dealing with two very painful chronic diseases. I lived with my parents but I did a LOT of chores there too. I did almost all of the grocery shopping. I ran most of the errands around town. I did my laundry and if my folks had stuff in the machines, I moved it through and folded/hung up the load when dry BEFORE I put mine it. I cooked many meals and when we got a sale on meat I helped cook and/or package it for the freezer. I also made most of the birthday and holiday gifts myself. By age 22 I was married and I had a baby shortly after that. We did NOT live with our parents and we did NOT depend on them to support us. I know your son is using his atitude to punish you and it is working. You have GOT to find a way to not let him know it is bothering you. in my opinion you need to figure out why you have this need to have him like you so much that it is ripping you apart that he is showing you such disdain. It is normal to have some pain over this, but i think maybe you should look at why it has been so gut-wrenching. For me it was that way but my son was 14 and it was way too early. I hate the distance between us, but I have faith that in time he will see that we daughter the best we could and he was an exceptionally troubled child. I think if he hadn't gone to my parents where I was not there to be a buffer between him and my brother that we would not ever speak to each other yet. He sees how horribly hateful my brother is, and he doesn't want his siblings to experience the pain that he saw me go through after each attack and when I knew one was coming. I did get therapy to help me get to this point. I think we ALL see too many tv families where problems are solved in an hour or less and where there are not the huge problems that we have to face in real life. I do think LMS is right about trusting God or your higher power to handle things. You are trying so HARD to make his life what you thought it would be, and you are allowing him not to have to truly grow up. He has known this entire time that if he was polite or nice to you then he could come home. He probably thinks that he didn't HAVE to be nice to you but he is doing it because he is a good guy. He clearly feels that you OWE him the lifestyle that he was accustomed to as a child/teen. Sure he moved out, did it 'on his own' but you bailed him out each time he came and acted remorseful and like he would start to fly right. He CLEARLY thinks that he can do what he wants as long as you don't know he is high/drunk while at your home. This is NOT what he NEEDS from you. He NEEDS you to kick him out. To let him live whatever lifestyle he wants to afford with his own money. that is being an adult and it will result in either the decision to stay drunk/high or to get his koi together and do what he has to in order to eat and pay bills. He is SMART. So far he is using that intelligence to use and to drink and to get around your rules by following an absolute minimum that he has taught you is all you can expect from him. What is this teaching the other kids? I PROMISE that they are missing NOTHING. NOT. ONE. THING. I was your other kids - the good grades, the chores, the jobs, the extracurriculars, the scholarships, etc.... I also had serious health issues. maybe in a way those were a blessing because I knew that if I used/drank and took my medications it would likely kill me. So if I wanted to drink? I skipped medications for a day or two. And I paid for it in huge increases in pain for several days. But mostly I did not drink or use because I didn't want to be ANYTHING like my gfgbro. I didn't want to hurt my folks that way, to abuse people that way, to waste my life that way. I had a lot of friends who did follow older sibs into drugs/alcohol. They saw that their parents pretty much gave up and just kept shelling out the money as long as the sub abuse and general life wasting wasn't rubbed into their noses. Do you want the other kids to learn that they can go out until all hours, sleep all day if they don't have work, and they can live a lifestyle that is enormously above their means too? Or do you want them to make other choices? How you handle this WILL have an impact on their life choices also. Let him go live on what he is earning until he gets tired enough to make some changes. After you see real, actual PROOF of these changes, then you can offer some minimal help. If he continues to make good choices, then you can think about offering to pay for school. You need to do this for ALL of your kids. Not just difficult child. [/QUOTE]
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