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When doctors don't listen to patients (inspired by MM's thread)
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<blockquote data-quote="PlainJane" data-source="post: 550282" data-attributes="member: 11700"><p>I actually agree with most of what you've said. I get very frustrate at this huge crack so many patients fall into. If their diagnosis isn't clear cut, they shuffle around from doctor to doctor. I also agree that there are physical issues that should be (but are often not) ruled out prior to a mental health diagnoses. I believe in a holistic approach, meaning treating the whole person. (people sometimes use the word holistic in place of the word alternative or complimentary medicine, but it really means to treat the whole person) Including mind and spirit. I don't agree with (and this is my personal opinion) the fact that people go to the doctor for complaint X and they just get more pills added to their life...pills pills pills...pills will solve everything seems to be the philosophy. I believe that medications should be used in conjunction with healthy mind and body lifestyles. </p><p></p><p>It really frustrates me when I see docs just going through the motions with patients and not really picking up on the clues (i.e. listening) to what the underlying issue is. But I think a lot more of it is that the docs are jaded (minus the ones that are just jerks)</p><p>My husband sees it, I see it. The patient that has a poor diet, they are over wieght, don't exercise, don't practice any stress relief habits, they smoke or drink, they don't get enough sleep...they are living a life that would pull anyone into a depression...the mind and body are most definately connected. And they go into the doctor with their complaints of being tired and having pain...and I get FIRST HAND that if somthing is making you ill, you don't have the energy to go run 5 miles, but there are changes that patients can make, small steps that they can take to move towards health, WHILE their doctor should be checking on the physical end, to see if he can find a reason why they are feeling the way they are. But these patients continue to eat poorly, they continue to drink, smoke, stay up till 1am watching tv...and make no effort to change. And they come back in to the doctor 3 months later and still feel crumby, and they want the doctor to help them, mean while they've done nothing to help themselves. Not even read!! I mean I've done behavioral change models for school back in the day, and something as simple as a patient coming back to the doctor, but now with a lot of information is a great sign! If a patient says to me, I still haven't changed my eating habits but I've been reading about diet and nutrition and they show that they are more informed now than they were, well that is wonderful!...but people don't do that...well a majority don't...and after so many docs (and nurses) give up...well, some do, not all...they've just seen so many patients with the "make me feel great without me having to do a darned thing" attitude, they just start mindlessly throwing pills at everyone. Again I don't agree with that, but...</p><p></p><p>It IS frustrating when docs don't listen. But there's going to be people throughout life that don't listen to something that they really should. And I have a personal experience with this, as a patient, because some doctors just plain suck. I get that.</p><p></p><p>What I was making a point about is patients have a hard time getting that just because they are the patient, does not mean they have the right to act demanding and belligerent towards health care professionals. </p><p>Hound Dog, your first post has some unfounded assumptions regarding medication school and quality of professionals, and I get annoyed because people just make this stuff up. And what you typed about nurses coaching residents is very well known, but you told it like is was some kind of sign that doctors are getting worse, but then you say you are a nurse, so this shouldn't be news to you...you also typed about stuff your friend who's a nurse told you in your first post, and now in your second post you are a nurse yourself...this is what I'm talking about!! Maybe you are a nurse?? But I kind of don't believe you, but if you are, fine. Your post does not sound like something I've ever heard an RN write, ever. It sounded a lot more like a frustrated patient that has dealt with too many jerk doctors and was venting, but some where in that vent your experiences flowed over into unsupported ideas about healthcare, and that's what I was pointing out. I didn't mean to personally attack you, I apologize that it came off that way. Last night my husband was supposed to be home at 9 and got home and 11:30...time away from his family. He went into medicine to help people. My husband was very sick as a child with uncontrolled asthma and has had attacks so bad that he has been on a vent. I've known my husband since high school and he has always wanted to do what he does. But day after day, the drug seekers (and yes a lot of them are drug seekers) the people that go to the ER for a runny nose, the people that are rude, demanding,...the people that google their sypmtoms then LIE to him, and say they have no idea what's going on...then at the end of their visit tell him they were testing him to see if he would guesss what they thought...yeah, that's actually more common then you think. I'm surprised by that one, testing your doctor, that's just sneeky and stupid...people that go to their primary, don't like what he said then go right to the ER for a second opinion...its an ER not a place to get a second opinion when your primary didn't tell you what you wanted to hear!! And then when people actually do come in with an emergency, the people that have been in the waiting room for hours for their sore throat complain, yes, they loudly complain that someone with chest pain went back before them...</p><p></p><p>That kind of immature, rude, entitled behavoir wears on health care workers. People are at their worst when they are ill, we get that, but there's a lot of mental abuse in this profession, so my point about attitude was, if you start off with an attitude with your healthcare providers, you likely won't get too far. That rule applies to every area of life really.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, I do believe that a patient's best chance at finding a good doctor is education!! Read read read! And not on random internet sites, make sure they are credible sites that support their claims. Never stop researching. And I do believe in listening to your gut feeling. If you go to a doctor and your gut is telling you they are blowing off something you want to check out, you can ask them, but if they still refuse, move on! There is no point is telling them off or getting an attitude, that just shows lack of class. Just finish your appointment, and don't ever go back. I've done it myself. I have a doctor completely ignore something I knew was not right. I didn't care for her or her dismissive attitude, so I moved on, and was diagnosed a few months later with an autoimmune disease. There was no reason for me to get fresh with her. When I come across people in life that I think are usless in their profession, a poor mechanic, a bad landscaper, a crumby waitress...causing a scene does no good. That was the other point I was making. Some people and I'm not saying anyone here, I was just blabbering, anyway some people are proud of themselves for telling off docs. But those are the same people that are rude to sales people, waitresses ect...so no surprise there.</p><p></p><p>Hound dog, the other posts were about docs not listening. I read this thread with the intention of adding my own story (the autoimmune thing I mentioned) but your post did vear off and made some general assumptions about medication schools, comments about the quality versus quanity, which doesn't make sense...are you saying they push docs and nurses through school faster? so that they are not trained as well? Because that's not true at all. Are you saying that on the job training is quicker? That's not true either. I just don't understnad how that even applies to us. But people will read it and believe it because if its written on a message board it must be true...(and yes this logic can be applied to my posts, just because I type it doesn't make it true). I have heard that medicine in other areas of the country are not functioning to the standards we do. I don't know because I've only lived and worked here. I live with in driving distance of some of the best hospitals in the country and my husband went to school at one of the best schools in the country...so my views are likely bias. </p><p>I know what this thread was about. Your first post did cross over to this topic. And I just took it an ran, really really far apparently...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="PlainJane, post: 550282, member: 11700"] I actually agree with most of what you've said. I get very frustrate at this huge crack so many patients fall into. If their diagnosis isn't clear cut, they shuffle around from doctor to doctor. I also agree that there are physical issues that should be (but are often not) ruled out prior to a mental health diagnoses. I believe in a holistic approach, meaning treating the whole person. (people sometimes use the word holistic in place of the word alternative or complimentary medicine, but it really means to treat the whole person) Including mind and spirit. I don't agree with (and this is my personal opinion) the fact that people go to the doctor for complaint X and they just get more pills added to their life...pills pills pills...pills will solve everything seems to be the philosophy. I believe that medications should be used in conjunction with healthy mind and body lifestyles. It really frustrates me when I see docs just going through the motions with patients and not really picking up on the clues (i.e. listening) to what the underlying issue is. But I think a lot more of it is that the docs are jaded (minus the ones that are just jerks) My husband sees it, I see it. The patient that has a poor diet, they are over wieght, don't exercise, don't practice any stress relief habits, they smoke or drink, they don't get enough sleep...they are living a life that would pull anyone into a depression...the mind and body are most definately connected. And they go into the doctor with their complaints of being tired and having pain...and I get FIRST HAND that if somthing is making you ill, you don't have the energy to go run 5 miles, but there are changes that patients can make, small steps that they can take to move towards health, WHILE their doctor should be checking on the physical end, to see if he can find a reason why they are feeling the way they are. But these patients continue to eat poorly, they continue to drink, smoke, stay up till 1am watching tv...and make no effort to change. And they come back in to the doctor 3 months later and still feel crumby, and they want the doctor to help them, mean while they've done nothing to help themselves. Not even read!! I mean I've done behavioral change models for school back in the day, and something as simple as a patient coming back to the doctor, but now with a lot of information is a great sign! If a patient says to me, I still haven't changed my eating habits but I've been reading about diet and nutrition and they show that they are more informed now than they were, well that is wonderful!...but people don't do that...well a majority don't...and after so many docs (and nurses) give up...well, some do, not all...they've just seen so many patients with the "make me feel great without me having to do a darned thing" attitude, they just start mindlessly throwing pills at everyone. Again I don't agree with that, but... It IS frustrating when docs don't listen. But there's going to be people throughout life that don't listen to something that they really should. And I have a personal experience with this, as a patient, because some doctors just plain suck. I get that. What I was making a point about is patients have a hard time getting that just because they are the patient, does not mean they have the right to act demanding and belligerent towards health care professionals. Hound Dog, your first post has some unfounded assumptions regarding medication school and quality of professionals, and I get annoyed because people just make this stuff up. And what you typed about nurses coaching residents is very well known, but you told it like is was some kind of sign that doctors are getting worse, but then you say you are a nurse, so this shouldn't be news to you...you also typed about stuff your friend who's a nurse told you in your first post, and now in your second post you are a nurse yourself...this is what I'm talking about!! Maybe you are a nurse?? But I kind of don't believe you, but if you are, fine. Your post does not sound like something I've ever heard an RN write, ever. It sounded a lot more like a frustrated patient that has dealt with too many jerk doctors and was venting, but some where in that vent your experiences flowed over into unsupported ideas about healthcare, and that's what I was pointing out. I didn't mean to personally attack you, I apologize that it came off that way. Last night my husband was supposed to be home at 9 and got home and 11:30...time away from his family. He went into medicine to help people. My husband was very sick as a child with uncontrolled asthma and has had attacks so bad that he has been on a vent. I've known my husband since high school and he has always wanted to do what he does. But day after day, the drug seekers (and yes a lot of them are drug seekers) the people that go to the ER for a runny nose, the people that are rude, demanding,...the people that google their sypmtoms then LIE to him, and say they have no idea what's going on...then at the end of their visit tell him they were testing him to see if he would guesss what they thought...yeah, that's actually more common then you think. I'm surprised by that one, testing your doctor, that's just sneeky and stupid...people that go to their primary, don't like what he said then go right to the ER for a second opinion...its an ER not a place to get a second opinion when your primary didn't tell you what you wanted to hear!! And then when people actually do come in with an emergency, the people that have been in the waiting room for hours for their sore throat complain, yes, they loudly complain that someone with chest pain went back before them... That kind of immature, rude, entitled behavoir wears on health care workers. People are at their worst when they are ill, we get that, but there's a lot of mental abuse in this profession, so my point about attitude was, if you start off with an attitude with your healthcare providers, you likely won't get too far. That rule applies to every area of life really. On the other hand, I do believe that a patient's best chance at finding a good doctor is education!! Read read read! And not on random internet sites, make sure they are credible sites that support their claims. Never stop researching. And I do believe in listening to your gut feeling. If you go to a doctor and your gut is telling you they are blowing off something you want to check out, you can ask them, but if they still refuse, move on! There is no point is telling them off or getting an attitude, that just shows lack of class. Just finish your appointment, and don't ever go back. I've done it myself. I have a doctor completely ignore something I knew was not right. I didn't care for her or her dismissive attitude, so I moved on, and was diagnosed a few months later with an autoimmune disease. There was no reason for me to get fresh with her. When I come across people in life that I think are usless in their profession, a poor mechanic, a bad landscaper, a crumby waitress...causing a scene does no good. That was the other point I was making. Some people and I'm not saying anyone here, I was just blabbering, anyway some people are proud of themselves for telling off docs. But those are the same people that are rude to sales people, waitresses ect...so no surprise there. Hound dog, the other posts were about docs not listening. I read this thread with the intention of adding my own story (the autoimmune thing I mentioned) but your post did vear off and made some general assumptions about medication schools, comments about the quality versus quanity, which doesn't make sense...are you saying they push docs and nurses through school faster? so that they are not trained as well? Because that's not true at all. Are you saying that on the job training is quicker? That's not true either. I just don't understnad how that even applies to us. But people will read it and believe it because if its written on a message board it must be true...(and yes this logic can be applied to my posts, just because I type it doesn't make it true). I have heard that medicine in other areas of the country are not functioning to the standards we do. I don't know because I've only lived and worked here. I live with in driving distance of some of the best hospitals in the country and my husband went to school at one of the best schools in the country...so my views are likely bias. I know what this thread was about. Your first post did cross over to this topic. And I just took it an ran, really really far apparently... [/QUOTE]
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