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<blockquote data-quote="Star*" data-source="post: 362825" data-attributes="member: 4964"><p>Ahhhhh Dashcat - Can I explain a few things to you? As an adoptee? </p><p> </p><p>I'm sure I wasn't off track with the self-abuse. I'm going to cite - takes one to know one addage and go from there. What I'm going to tell you is going to sound very weird to you, but it's from my heart AND more importantly? It's in no way ANYTHING, ANY-THING to do with you, how you raised her, being an 'adoptive' Mom. In this case it's her....for real.....not you. </p><p> </p><p>Sadly though? She has NO idea and I'm going to take a stab in the dark here that she has a very horrific temper, does stuff in her life that seems almost like she has no self-worth, possibly puts herself down, maybe a loner or has a few friends, but no one really close or if she has had? They've left her because she's pushed them away. Why? She has no clue why she does the things she does. She's just an angry ball of (insert 100 words here) and has no clue how to fix it, why she's like this....it comes and goes - because sometimes she is probably down right charming. She's probably very intelligent although her grades don't reflect it. Conflicted without cause would be your best description of her. (if most of this is right - I think we're on the right track) AND of course, there is the possibility she has Borderline (BPD) - I'm thinking it's more lack of self worth despite whatever disorder she has. </p><p> </p><p>I grew up in a great home, with two parents. I was adopted out of a foster home very young - before a year. I was adored, pampered, loved like no other child I knew. My Mom was phenominal - we did so many fun things together - and she was WAY ahead of her time on keeping kids occupied, and raising children. She's really in touch with people - kids especially. So I never had any of the household disruptions, parents had disagreements but never yelling matches or screaming. We went to school, did extra cirricular activities, went camping - went on vacation EVERY year....no matter how bad the economy. But still? I was angry. I couldn't explain it - I got frustrated easy - lashed out at my sister when I got older. Started making poor choices regarding boys, friends, and a host of other things by the time I was 15 I think my Mom was ready to put me in Department of Juvenile Justice....even drove me there one day so I could see the place. Took me to therapy - I would not talk. No one knew what was wrong with me. </p><p> </p><p>I even went on to have several abusive boyfriends. I would live and die for them. I married the first man that made me feel pretty and got me out of my parents view. Thirteen years, a horribly abusive mental, physically, emotionally years married to a true sociopath/psychopath - and....I stayed with him - determined to prove (what?) At that time I didn't know. I even had a child - Dude. For three years my brain allowed me to stay there with that child and let HIM be abused. Then one day I just snapped. </p><p> </p><p>I left, took my son and had been in counseling for about 2 years. Those 2 years gave me the courage to leave my x....not the ability to understand why I had such a temper or why I kept getting (key word here getting) looser boyfriends and now a seriously looser husband. (still is a looser after loosing everything). So I kept in counseling because I knew Dude would need it and I figured I would need some help to help Dude - What I didn't know until about 8 years ago was that I was in need of help for me. I had tons of self-confidence - I had NO self worth and hadn't had any for years - this leads you to pick (key word here pick) these looser men and desire to stay with them to make it work. You can have tons of self confidence - tell yourself "I WILL MAKE THIS RELATIONSHIP WORK." but without self worth? You. are. nothing. Nothing to yourself and nothing to anyone else - so when the abuse starts? You dont' really care - you are of course, nothing. </p><p> </p><p>So why would she feel like nothing? She had great parents, she's been given a good life. She has love and your desire to see her through any disaster, but you still don't understand her - and well - she doesn't get herself at all. All I can tell you is that after 15 years of counseling I finally admitted to myself - in session that beacuse of being adopted - I felt like garbage. I was a throw away person. I had no idea where I came from, why anyone wouldn't care enough to keep me - but instead toss me out like you do a dog at the pound. I even worked at the ASPCA and would see how the dogs came in and how some of them left with happy owners and got returned a few weeks later stating "too difficult, dumb, won't learn," I felt for those dogs more than I did anyone else. I felt I could relate to their lives....but couldn't make the connection. </p><p> </p><p>See I can TELL you - I felt like garbage - thrown out, not wanted. I can tell you WHY I felt like that - but convincing me of it? Took a lot of time, and peeling back layers and layers of my life year by year nearly back to my first memory. Sounds bizzare - because if you asked me "Do your parents love you? Do they want you?" I would answer yes..of course. But in the back of my mind? I always felt - They do.....BUT......(but they could return me, they could say they were tired of me, they could put me out and probably not get into trouble - after all I had no worth) So in your mind - as an adopted kid - parts of things that go on in your psyche - you don't even KNOW are going on. I mean it never came out of my mouth that I thought anyone could "return" me for being difficult....but my BRAIN felt that. Sub consciously it's a combination of things that you can't fix just by saying as a Mother "I love you more than life. I love you more than anyone." Why? Because the brain already has it locked in at a young age - you were thrown out, you were unwanted, and what must you have done to be left.....NO ONE leaves their child - wild animals don't abandon their child - why was I such a burden that they couldn't have made it work out (they being my bio father & Mother). </p><p> </p><p>Then for years - for me anyway - there was wondering WHO is my Mom, WHO is my Dad? Do I look like her/him? Do I have brothers and sisters? Do they miss me? They must not - no one ever came looking for me (no happy reuninions) of the long lost daughter. Years - your brain tricks you into thinking - someone, someday will pull up in your drive and tell you - your wildest dreams are true or false. See I'm not a princess, I'm not the ******* child of an heiress, I'm not the last child of a group of 8, My parents weren't college lovers with careers ahead of them and if they WERE? HOW DARE THEY leave me. Was I the product of a one night stand from the Vietnam War? Did my Dad even know I existed. Maybe if he did - HE would come get me. And on goes the things in your mind from day to day that eat away at your self-worth. But you answer honestly - My parents love me. </p><p> </p><p>There is a book out called Primal Scream - or something like that, and it explains a little about adopted kids and what their psyches go through and just know there is NOTHING that you can or could do to make it better for her. She doesn't even have a CLUE this is going on in her head. If you flat out ask her? She'll deny it vehemently because she has NO CLUE. But it's there. if she doesn't deal with it? She'll ruin her life, maybe the lives of her kids too, and leave a destructive path that would rival an F5 tornado. </p><p> </p><p>When I took account of my life, accepted that things didn't just 'happen' to me without my permission (okay some do but I'm talking abuse etc) and dealt with my temper? I started to be a lot happier person. If you talked to anyone who has known me in my life I AM the CAN DO - woman. I would try anything once and prove I could do it. Self-confidence radiating like a mask over the sad person inside that couldn't get a handle on her temper, and didn't feel she had any worth. I argued too with my therapist that OF COURSE I HAD SELF WORTH - how dare he.....he was wrong. We did a few exercise that proved to me - I had very little to none. When those exercises were over? I was changed forever. I am very smart, I am pretty, I am kind, I can have an opinion, I can be angry as hell - I just need to control the reaction to that anger, I am loyal, honest, hardworking. I am a great Mother. I'm a good friend. I can draw boundaries, I can say NO. I was NONE of these before therapy - and it all stemmed from feeling like I had been tossed in the garbage for someone else to come along and say "Oh a second hand baby laying by the curb - lets take it home." But most of all? I am loved. I know that now. All those things - all those good things I always was - but never felt. I had to work through it before my brain would allow me to feel it, and more importantly express it in my life. </p><p> </p><p>Your daughter doesn't have to be molested to feel abused. I promise she's doing enough of it on her own without knowing. This qualifies her as a battered woman - except she and the lack of understanding adoption are the abusers. It's just my humble viewpoint. Whatever you do? DO NOT confront her with this information. This is why I suggested YOU talk to a counselor or a therapist without her.....there are ways they can teach you to draw her in - to make her curious about herself enough to want to change. For me? I just thought it was for my son - I figured 2 years of abuse counseling - while I was being abused didn't make me an expert but everything they told me about my X and how to get out? Right on the nose. So once that worked? I was curious to see what else could be improved in my life. That's what therapy will teach YOU as a Mom. (shrug) </p><p>She won't even thank you for oh.....probably a dozen or so years, but if you don't try? What have you gained? Then if she turns out to be Borderline (BPD) with this lack of self worth? You're going to have a mess - bigger than you already do. </p><p> </p><p>Just my thoughts. Hope something in her chimes - </p><p>Hugs & Love </p><p>Star</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Star*, post: 362825, member: 4964"] Ahhhhh Dashcat - Can I explain a few things to you? As an adoptee? I'm sure I wasn't off track with the self-abuse. I'm going to cite - takes one to know one addage and go from there. What I'm going to tell you is going to sound very weird to you, but it's from my heart AND more importantly? It's in no way ANYTHING, ANY-THING to do with you, how you raised her, being an 'adoptive' Mom. In this case it's her....for real.....not you. Sadly though? She has NO idea and I'm going to take a stab in the dark here that she has a very horrific temper, does stuff in her life that seems almost like she has no self-worth, possibly puts herself down, maybe a loner or has a few friends, but no one really close or if she has had? They've left her because she's pushed them away. Why? She has no clue why she does the things she does. She's just an angry ball of (insert 100 words here) and has no clue how to fix it, why she's like this....it comes and goes - because sometimes she is probably down right charming. She's probably very intelligent although her grades don't reflect it. Conflicted without cause would be your best description of her. (if most of this is right - I think we're on the right track) AND of course, there is the possibility she has Borderline (BPD) - I'm thinking it's more lack of self worth despite whatever disorder she has. I grew up in a great home, with two parents. I was adopted out of a foster home very young - before a year. I was adored, pampered, loved like no other child I knew. My Mom was phenominal - we did so many fun things together - and she was WAY ahead of her time on keeping kids occupied, and raising children. She's really in touch with people - kids especially. So I never had any of the household disruptions, parents had disagreements but never yelling matches or screaming. We went to school, did extra cirricular activities, went camping - went on vacation EVERY year....no matter how bad the economy. But still? I was angry. I couldn't explain it - I got frustrated easy - lashed out at my sister when I got older. Started making poor choices regarding boys, friends, and a host of other things by the time I was 15 I think my Mom was ready to put me in Department of Juvenile Justice....even drove me there one day so I could see the place. Took me to therapy - I would not talk. No one knew what was wrong with me. I even went on to have several abusive boyfriends. I would live and die for them. I married the first man that made me feel pretty and got me out of my parents view. Thirteen years, a horribly abusive mental, physically, emotionally years married to a true sociopath/psychopath - and....I stayed with him - determined to prove (what?) At that time I didn't know. I even had a child - Dude. For three years my brain allowed me to stay there with that child and let HIM be abused. Then one day I just snapped. I left, took my son and had been in counseling for about 2 years. Those 2 years gave me the courage to leave my x....not the ability to understand why I had such a temper or why I kept getting (key word here getting) looser boyfriends and now a seriously looser husband. (still is a looser after loosing everything). So I kept in counseling because I knew Dude would need it and I figured I would need some help to help Dude - What I didn't know until about 8 years ago was that I was in need of help for me. I had tons of self-confidence - I had NO self worth and hadn't had any for years - this leads you to pick (key word here pick) these looser men and desire to stay with them to make it work. You can have tons of self confidence - tell yourself "I WILL MAKE THIS RELATIONSHIP WORK." but without self worth? You. are. nothing. Nothing to yourself and nothing to anyone else - so when the abuse starts? You dont' really care - you are of course, nothing. So why would she feel like nothing? She had great parents, she's been given a good life. She has love and your desire to see her through any disaster, but you still don't understand her - and well - she doesn't get herself at all. All I can tell you is that after 15 years of counseling I finally admitted to myself - in session that beacuse of being adopted - I felt like garbage. I was a throw away person. I had no idea where I came from, why anyone wouldn't care enough to keep me - but instead toss me out like you do a dog at the pound. I even worked at the ASPCA and would see how the dogs came in and how some of them left with happy owners and got returned a few weeks later stating "too difficult, dumb, won't learn," I felt for those dogs more than I did anyone else. I felt I could relate to their lives....but couldn't make the connection. See I can TELL you - I felt like garbage - thrown out, not wanted. I can tell you WHY I felt like that - but convincing me of it? Took a lot of time, and peeling back layers and layers of my life year by year nearly back to my first memory. Sounds bizzare - because if you asked me "Do your parents love you? Do they want you?" I would answer yes..of course. But in the back of my mind? I always felt - They do.....BUT......(but they could return me, they could say they were tired of me, they could put me out and probably not get into trouble - after all I had no worth) So in your mind - as an adopted kid - parts of things that go on in your psyche - you don't even KNOW are going on. I mean it never came out of my mouth that I thought anyone could "return" me for being difficult....but my BRAIN felt that. Sub consciously it's a combination of things that you can't fix just by saying as a Mother "I love you more than life. I love you more than anyone." Why? Because the brain already has it locked in at a young age - you were thrown out, you were unwanted, and what must you have done to be left.....NO ONE leaves their child - wild animals don't abandon their child - why was I such a burden that they couldn't have made it work out (they being my bio father & Mother). Then for years - for me anyway - there was wondering WHO is my Mom, WHO is my Dad? Do I look like her/him? Do I have brothers and sisters? Do they miss me? They must not - no one ever came looking for me (no happy reuninions) of the long lost daughter. Years - your brain tricks you into thinking - someone, someday will pull up in your drive and tell you - your wildest dreams are true or false. See I'm not a princess, I'm not the ******* child of an heiress, I'm not the last child of a group of 8, My parents weren't college lovers with careers ahead of them and if they WERE? HOW DARE THEY leave me. Was I the product of a one night stand from the Vietnam War? Did my Dad even know I existed. Maybe if he did - HE would come get me. And on goes the things in your mind from day to day that eat away at your self-worth. But you answer honestly - My parents love me. There is a book out called Primal Scream - or something like that, and it explains a little about adopted kids and what their psyches go through and just know there is NOTHING that you can or could do to make it better for her. She doesn't even have a CLUE this is going on in her head. If you flat out ask her? She'll deny it vehemently because she has NO CLUE. But it's there. if she doesn't deal with it? She'll ruin her life, maybe the lives of her kids too, and leave a destructive path that would rival an F5 tornado. When I took account of my life, accepted that things didn't just 'happen' to me without my permission (okay some do but I'm talking abuse etc) and dealt with my temper? I started to be a lot happier person. If you talked to anyone who has known me in my life I AM the CAN DO - woman. I would try anything once and prove I could do it. Self-confidence radiating like a mask over the sad person inside that couldn't get a handle on her temper, and didn't feel she had any worth. I argued too with my therapist that OF COURSE I HAD SELF WORTH - how dare he.....he was wrong. We did a few exercise that proved to me - I had very little to none. When those exercises were over? I was changed forever. I am very smart, I am pretty, I am kind, I can have an opinion, I can be angry as hell - I just need to control the reaction to that anger, I am loyal, honest, hardworking. I am a great Mother. I'm a good friend. I can draw boundaries, I can say NO. I was NONE of these before therapy - and it all stemmed from feeling like I had been tossed in the garbage for someone else to come along and say "Oh a second hand baby laying by the curb - lets take it home." But most of all? I am loved. I know that now. All those things - all those good things I always was - but never felt. I had to work through it before my brain would allow me to feel it, and more importantly express it in my life. Your daughter doesn't have to be molested to feel abused. I promise she's doing enough of it on her own without knowing. This qualifies her as a battered woman - except she and the lack of understanding adoption are the abusers. It's just my humble viewpoint. Whatever you do? DO NOT confront her with this information. This is why I suggested YOU talk to a counselor or a therapist without her.....there are ways they can teach you to draw her in - to make her curious about herself enough to want to change. For me? I just thought it was for my son - I figured 2 years of abuse counseling - while I was being abused didn't make me an expert but everything they told me about my X and how to get out? Right on the nose. So once that worked? I was curious to see what else could be improved in my life. That's what therapy will teach YOU as a Mom. (shrug) She won't even thank you for oh.....probably a dozen or so years, but if you don't try? What have you gained? Then if she turns out to be Borderline (BPD) with this lack of self worth? You're going to have a mess - bigger than you already do. Just my thoughts. Hope something in her chimes - Hugs & Love Star [/QUOTE]
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