Behavior Contracts & Points Systems

[Mamaof5]

I'm taking a crack at these types of systems with my Big B.

What do you think of this? Is it too much, too little? These are the major power struggle areas for him and I. Am I too cold with wording, should child be his name (or does that single him out), our names where parent is...make it more warm or just leave clinical like.

This type of "discipline" is new to me. I'm a natural parenting type (what most refer to as crunchy, gentle discipline, unconditional parenting, a form of consensual living except health and safety are non negotiable - not like I allow him the natural consequences of sticking the palm of his hand on a hot stove top or anything). My concern is it might be redundant is some areas or I may be expecting too much.

BEHAVIORAL EXPECTATIONS
Wake up:
0 – 5 points
• Gets up when called
• Dresses appropriately
• Brushes teeth
• Makes Lunches
• Combs hair
• Out the door on time
School:
0 – 5 points
• Follows school rules
• Does not disturb others
• Uses materials or equipment appropriately
• Listens to staff
• Makes effort to complete assigned work
Bedtime:
0 – 5 points
• Knows his/her correct bedtime and observes it
• Completes necessary tasks prior to bedtime
• Remains quiet and orderly and does not disturb others while in his/her room
• Completes homework in timely fashion before bedtime
Shower Time:
0 – 3 points
• Showers in 5 minutes then dresses promptly
• Showers every second or third day
Recreation/Outside
0 – 10 points
• Stays in front and parent view
• Obeys rules of outside play
Obey other parental presence and authority when parent is not there
Respect friends
No in and out of the house
When called in, come in
530 PM is dinner time, must be home at that time
Always ask before going to friends houses
Call if going to be late
Cooperation:
0 – 10 points
(Weekends 0-7 pts and Evening 0-3 pts)
• Addresses family members with respect
• Cooperative and keeps hands & feet to self
• Does not disrupt conversation and waits turn to talk
• Follows directions and does not engage in loud or unruly behavior
• No talk back or sass when asked to perform a responsibility or duty
• Respects friends and personal space of people around them
• Keeps hands/feet and comments to self
• Does not horseplay
• Follows directions
Responsibilities:
0 – 10 points
• Completes the work assignment in a cooperative manner and follows instruction
• Does not waste time
Room Clean Up:
0 – 3 points
• Bed is made
• Floor is swept daily
• Nothing is on the floor
Dishes:
0 – 2 points
• Done ever night
• No arguments over who's turn it is
• No fighting about the chore
General Tidiness of House Up:
0 – 5 points
• Helps keep the house tidy
• When asked to pick up something does so with respect and promptly
• Puts jacket, backpack and shoes where they belong


Daily Points:
Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
Saturday
Sunday

Weekly Points:
Week
Point Total

Monthly Points:
Month : April
Points Gained
Points Revoked
Total

Points gained for the following behavioral contract and expectations can be redeemed for privileges such as phone time, computer time, television or movie privileges (above and beyond normal privileges) or other rewards set out at the beginning of every week.

Two (2) reminders for each section will be given, after the last reminder a set of points is revoked for each time the responsibility is ignored or unperformed. Upon correction of behavior the point may be given back by only the parent that revoked the point.

Once a week a privilege is given by redeeming points earned. Points may be saved on a monthly basis for larger privileges desired (new game for Wii, a toy or game board desired, etc).

PENALTIES

Penalties are negative reinforcement designed to reduce the frequency of misbehavior when
rewards do not produce the desired behavior. Before a penalty is given, the child will be given an explanation of the misbehavior and given a chance to explain his/her behavior. An explanation or excuse by the child does not mean that the penalty will be removed.

The following types of penalties that will be used:

Verbal Correction is a notice to the child in a firm assertive manner that his/her behavior is
not appropriate and a directive as to what the parent specifically wants him/her to do. There is
no loss of points for a verbal correction but loss of points for 2 consecutive verbal corrections.

Restriction follows two verbal corrections in most cases. It results from the child ignoring the verbal correction or for failure to correct behavior after being given two verbal corrections. A restriction results in no points earned for that hour of activity.

Fines are penalties given for deliberate defiance of a rule or expected behavior or failure to
correct behavior after a restriction is given. A fine will result in 10 points being deducted from
the point card.

Rebates are refunds of fines when a behavior is corrected. Only the parent who issued the fine may issue a rebate. Rebates must be issued before the end of day, before bedtime. All or part of the fined points may be rebated.

Child Signature
Parents Signature
DATE:

 

[BusynMember]

My own personal opinion, and I'm sure some will disagree, is that this type of system is confusing to a child and unlikely to keep their interest long. I never got anywhere with behavioral charts, but, hey, give it a try. I would simplify it though for a nine year old. He's not going to remember everything nor does any nine year old do everything he's supposed to do every single morning. All kids rush, skip, etc. I also think it's a bit rigid, like boot camp...lol. Five minutes in the shower? What if he wants to take a longer shower? I dunno...I know that would never have worked with my kids and would have lead to frustration and tears, the exact opposite of what we wanted. But all kids are different. JMO anyway.

Good luck!

 

[Robinboots]

Oy. My opinion, too, is that it's too complicated and unnecessarily rigid. Esp. for a 9yo. You also mentioned your parenting style, which I pretty much disagree with in the first place, so you can take this for what it's worth.

I actually think so-called behavioral contracts are worthless.

There is no legal recourse, naturally, for a child; so why the "contract"? If you have rules, use natural consequences whenever possible; otherwise, have an immediate punishment ready. For example:
If he doesn't get up when called, buy him an alarm clock; if he still doesn't get up, yank off the covers, MAKE him get up. No third or fourth chances, just do it.
Let the teacher handle school issues.
Start a habit where he does homework IMMEDIATELY after dinner, in an accessible area of the house where you can keep an eye on him.

Kids need discipline, they need training, they need time to develop habits - good or bad. Assigning points to a 9yo with a rebate system, etc., is just asking for trouble. He'll be confused, you'll be overwhelmed, and it will fall apart in probably a week or two.

Again, in my humble opinion, but I am a writer and one of my strongest areas is child discipline. That said, some people report results with these "contracts". I'm very old-fashioned, and think that the parent's word is law, period, and children need to be taught to comply - not cajoled and bargained with.

 

[pepperidge]

We never had much luck with this kind of thing. It would drive me absolutely crazy after a couple of days trying to keep track of all the points, having my kids trying to argue about how many points they did or did not have etc. Over the years we have simplified to a few simple things--like so much tv a night if 3 specific chore type things get done etc. Remember that if it is hard for you to manage you won't stick with it.

 

[klmno]

I agree that it's way too much to expect from a 9yo. I was happy if my son took a shower at 9yo. LOL! And behavior contracts work for some, I hear, but made things worse for me and my son. So around 11yo, we used a reward system- punishments/negative consequences were not a part of it because they were about things that were expected and I had less tolerance for- like being disrespectful to me. The reward system was for things like getting homework done. But again, this was for a middle school aged boy. My son just got released from Department of Juvenile Justice and this looks like a list straight from their point system - and even teenagers have trouble meeting those expectations.

 

[aeroeng]

We tried a very similar type of system and had no luck with it. It just became one more thing to argue about. If you go with it, I would try to make it more simple. Absolute consistency is critical, don't let arguing become an effective tool for the difficult child to use.

 

[Andy]

I am one that likes visiual aides for the kids - posters listing schedules and rules. I also used a point/reward system successfully for my difficult child when he was 11 years old. These systems sometimes work and sometimes don't. It really depends on the system and how your child views it.

This one as others have indicated does seem too rigid. The contract part reminded me of reading a parent handbook for school - one I am not sure I would want to send my child to if I thought this would need to be implemented for my kid. Schools need a system for all teachers to follow but it is not shared in this terminology or depth with the student. I think a 9 year old will not really understand it or will feel trapped and doomed.

My opinion is that you need your child on board with the system before it will work. I was fortunate that my son did like our system so it worked as we had planned. Some things I look for in any system:

1. Keep it light - the more detailed it becomes, the more of a burden it is for the child, the more overwhelming it will be to "fullfill". Do not look for perfectionism in each step but do set up the standard of what meets the minimal qualification to earn the points.
2. Allow the child to "approve" (agree) with the system before implementing it. If your child does not like something about the system, it will become a source of problems. You do not want this to be the focus of frustration or your child will feel like a prisoner to the system.
3. Keep the system "positive" - List ways to earn points but keep the reductions of points very minimal and only for the few behaviors you are really working with for your difficult child to correct. difficult child is still a child, still a human being who will make mistakes and pounding the disappointments of his mistakes into him by taking away points for each and every moment of frustration with him may not be helpful - it will lead him to believe that if he is not perfect than he is a failure. As much as possible, focus on the positives that he has done.
4. Keep the "rewards" as non-materialistic as possible - You will find that if the rewards are only material things (Wii games, the newest movies released, ect), your child may start looking at this system in a way to obtain his wish list and not for the intention of learning to get certain things done. He may also nag you to up the reward - Increase the points or decrease cost of something. This kids are very clever - when they ask to increase a reward, it is not because they believe that duty is worth more but because they know if they have more they will get more. We kept our "rewards" more toward fun activities: "up 1/2 hour later", "bike ride with Mom", "Game night with the family", "You get to choose menu for supper", "trip to the zoo".
5. After a set trial period for adjustments (one week?), keep all numbers as is. No increasing points for accomplishing something and no decreasing points to earn something.
6. Be aware that this system will have a life time. Once it gets too frustrating for any of you then you must acknowledge it is not working and go onto something else. Even when it does work as you would like, there will come a time when difficult child will just loose interest and stop using it. Accept that and go on to something else. You do not want this to be the focus of frustration in the house.
7. Build in some "free time". I figured this one out in a recent post where one of the things earned was time on the easy child. Saturday morning looked like it may be an issue in reinforcement of that time. It dawned on me that Saturday morning could be a "free time" of activity for that child. No points used to play the easy child before mom got up for the day. If there is an area such as this situation, go ahead and build in times that are free play so the chart is not the 24/7 focus of the child.

Good luck in whatever you do decide to do!

 

[Mamaof5]

I am one that likes visiual aides for the kids - posters listing schedules and rules. I also used a point/reward system successfully for my difficult child when he was 11 years old. These systems sometimes work and sometimes don't. It really depends on the system and how your child views it.

This one as others have indicated does seem too rigid. The contract part reminded me of reading a parent handbook for school - one I am not sure I would want to send my child to if I thought this would need to be implemented for my kid. Schools need a system for all teachers to follow but it is not shared in this terminology or depth with the student. I think a 9 year old will not really understand it or will feel trapped and doomed.

My opinion is that you need your child on board with the system before it will work. I was fortunate that my son did like our system so it worked as we had planned. Some things I look for in any system:

1. Keep it light - the more detailed it becomes, the more of a burden it is for the child, the more overwhelming it will be to "fullfill". Do not look for perfectionism in each step but do set up the standard of what meets the minimal qualification to earn the points.
2. Allow the child to "approve" (agree) with the system before implementing it. If your child does not like something about the system, it will become a source of problems. You do not want this to be the focus of frustration or your child will feel like a prisoner to the system.
3. Keep the system "positive" - List ways to earn points but keep the reductions of points very minimal and only for the few behaviors you are really working with for your difficult child to correct. difficult child is still a child, still a human being who will make mistakes and pounding the disappointments of his mistakes into him by taking away points for each and every moment of frustration with him may not be helpful - it will lead him to believe that if he is not perfect than he is a failure. As much as possible, focus on the positives that he has done.
4. Keep the "rewards" as non-materialistic as possible - You will find that if the rewards are only material things (Wii games, the newest movies released, ect), your child may start looking at this system in a way to obtain his wish list and not for the intention of learning to get certain things done. He may also nag you to up the reward - Increase the points or decrease cost of something. This kids are very clever - when they ask to increase a reward, it is not because they believe that duty is worth more but because they know if they have more they will get more. We kept our "rewards" more toward fun activities: "up 1/2 hour later", "bike ride with Mom", "Game night with the family", "You get to choose menu for supper", "trip to the zoo".
5. After a set trial period for adjustments (one week?), keep all numbers as is. No increasing points for accomplishing something and no decreasing points to earn something.
6. Be aware that this system will have a life time. Once it gets too frustrating for any of you then you must acknowledge it is not working and go onto something else. Even when it does work as you would like, there will come a time when difficult child will just loose interest and stop using it. Accept that and go on to something else. You do not want this to be the focus of frustration in the house.
7. Build in some "free time". I figured this one out in a recent post where one of the things earned was time on the easy child. Saturday morning looked like it may be an issue in reinforcement of that time. It dawned on me that Saturday morning could be a "free time" of activity for that child. No points used to play the easy child before mom got up for the day. If there is an area such as this situation, go ahead and build in times that are free play so the chart is not the 24/7 focus of the child.

Good luck in whatever you do decide to do!

Absolutely going to do all of what you pointed out. Yes it was from a pdf of a Juvie center system (card system) and I do find it too much (I knew it was) I have not even told Big B about it yet. I want his input because it is a consensual living household. I'll probably drop the shower part - it was a section I added because it was an easy target to meet for him and I wanted something he already did well on there to reinforce that he does it well and for him to know that he can get those points easily enough. Kind of like when a college student takes a patsy course to up his grades (hey I did it in college lol) and GPA...bad comparison I know. I'll probably drop it to two or three major behaviors to work on and change it monthly with his input, ask him what he wants to work on for goals.

Thank you all for input, I needed it. Robin - not debating you just curious as to why so much contempt for natural parenting? Besides being old fashioned of course which seems to be the major part of why you disagree with it what else irks you about it? I know I'm not exactly "mainstream", are you assuming I also don't vax? delay vax (because we all know natural parenting circles do ascribe to the "vax are evil" thing). You did assume correctly but for the wrong reasons. I don't believe vax causes ODD\CD\Autism, I do believe it can be an environmental factor for some kids, not all..not mine. I don't vax because I'm immuno-compromised and because I have a medical exemption (cytokene storm reaction to Hep B, Tetanus and Flu, all documented by GP's, specialists and Rhuma Specialists). That's a topic for another day though - I just found it fascinating your comments is all - not offended either by them, we all parent differently and not one set of parenting fits all parents or all children.

Aeroeng - sunny conure huh...nanday conure here. You are right, consistency is critical and it could very well backfire on me and cause more arguing. He's done chore charts before with great success, it's me who was the problem with those (consistency thing, life got in my way because I let it). He's very, very visual too. Perhaps when we've worked out what he would like on there with his input we can put it up where everyone can see it.

 

[klmno]

Yes it was from a pdf of a Juvie center system

Keep in mind that in many states, at least, a 9yo can't even be held in a detention center for very long due to law so the juvy system doesn't even expect this of a child that age.

 

[BusynMember]

Take what works for you and leave the rest. We are all just moms I don't believe that authoritative methods work for difficult children. It's not hard to get a "typical" kid to respect you, but a difficult child is wired differently and they don't accept...that can cause rebellion in my opinion. I am not a perfect parent so I don't call out anyone's parenting style, but my grown kids have told me I was too lax They all turned out well, even my difficult child, so when they say it, it is with good nature and I don't take offense, but that is their opinion. On the other hand, again, they all DID turn out well...lol..so I couldn't have done everything wrong. They wish I had grounded them more and not backed down so often (shrug). All's well that ends well, I guess. All parenting styles seem to flounder with difficult children. You know your own child best.

My own kid just wouldn't do the chart. He isn't even really that rebellious. He has Aspergers and attention issues and got very bored with it and stopped caring about the consequences and perks very quickly and just refused to do it. I could see right away it wasn't a good idea for him. You'll probably be able to tell early on if it's going to work for you. I certainly wouldn't use a detention center model though. Those are for kids who are on the verge or or already becoming hardcore criminals.

One last thing: Remember all of us here have had parenting failures and successes, and we all have different personalities. It goes against my grain to spank or expect any child to listen to a rule without giving them a reason why or a time to talk about it. Others are more comfortable with "I said so" and in my opinion both are fine. If you're comfortable doing it, in my opinion it works better.

Good luck

 

[Mamaof5]

I am one that likes visiual aides for the kids - posters listing schedules and rules. I also used a point/reward system successfully for my difficult child when he was 11 years old. These systems sometimes work and sometimes don't. It really depends on the system and how your child views it.

This one as others have indicated does seem too rigid. The contract part reminded me of reading a parent handbook for school - one I am not sure I would want to send my child to if I thought this would need to be implemented for my kid. Schools need a system for all teachers to follow but it is not shared in this terminology or depth with the student. I think a 9 year old will not really understand it or will feel trapped and doomed.

My opinion is that you need your child on board with the system before it will work. I was fortunate that my son did like our system so it worked as we had planned. Some things I look for in any system:

1. Keep it light - the more detailed it becomes, the more of a burden it is for the child, the more overwhelming it will be to "fullfill". Do not look for perfectionism in each step but do set up the standard of what meets the minimal qualification to earn the points.
2. Allow the child to "approve" (agree) with the system before implementing it. If your child does not like something about the system, it will become a source of problems. You do not want this to be the focus of frustration or your child will feel like a prisoner to the system.
3. Keep the system "positive" - List ways to earn points but keep the reductions of points very minimal and only for the few behaviors you are really working with for your difficult child to correct. difficult child is still a child, still a human being who will make mistakes and pounding the disappointments of his mistakes into him by taking away points for each and every moment of frustration with him may not be helpful - it will lead him to believe that if he is not perfect than he is a failure. As much as possible, focus on the positives that he has done.
4. Keep the "rewards" as non-materialistic as possible - You will find that if the rewards are only material things (Wii games, the newest movies released, ect), your child may start looking at this system in a way to obtain his wish list and not for the intention of learning to get certain things done. He may also nag you to up the reward - Increase the points or decrease cost of something. This kids are very clever - when they ask to increase a reward, it is not because they believe that duty is worth more but because they know if they have more they will get more. We kept our "rewards" more toward fun activities: "up 1/2 hour later", "bike ride with Mom", "Game night with the family", "You get to choose menu for supper", "trip to the zoo".
5. After a set trial period for adjustments (one week?), keep all numbers as is. No increasing points for accomplishing something and no decreasing points to earn something.
6. Be aware that this system will have a life time. Once it gets too frustrating for any of you then you must acknowledge it is not working and go onto something else. Even when it does work as you would like, there will come a time when difficult child will just loose interest and stop using it. Accept that and go on to something else. You do not want this to be the focus of frustration in the house.
7. Build in some "free time". I figured this one out in a recent post where one of the things earned was time on the easy child. Saturday morning looked like it may be an issue in reinforcement of that time. It dawned on me that Saturday morning could be a "free time" of activity for that child. No points used to play the easy child before mom got up for the day. If there is an area such as this situation, go ahead and build in times that are free play so the chart is not the 24/7 focus of the child.

Good luck in whatever you do decide to do!

Take what works for you and leave the rest. We are all just moms I don't believe that authoritative methods work for difficult children. It's not hard to get a "typical" kid to respect you, but a difficult child is wired differently and they don't accept...that can cause rebellion in my opinion. I am not a perfect parent so I don't call out anyone's parenting style, but my grown kids have told me I was too lax They all turned out well, even my difficult child, so when they say it, it is with good nature and I don't take offense, but that is their opinion. On the other hand, again, they all DID turn out well...lol..so I couldn't have done everything wrong. They wish I had grounded them more and not backed down so often (shrug). All's well that ends well, I guess. All parenting styles seem to flounder with difficult children. You know your own child best.

My own kid just wouldn't do the chart. He isn't even really that rebellious. He has Aspergers and attention issues and got very bored with it and stopped caring about the consequences and perks very quickly and just refused to do it. I could see right away it wasn't a good idea for him. You'll probably be able to tell early on if it's going to work for you. I certainly wouldn't use a detention center model though. Those are for kids who are on the verge or or already becoming hardcore criminals.

One last thing: Remember all of us here have had parenting failures and successes, and we all have different personalities. It goes against my grain to spank or expect any child to listen to a rule without giving them a reason why or a time to talk about it. Others are more comfortable with "I said so" and in my opinion both are fine. If you're comfortable doing it, in my opinion it works better.

Good luck

Absolutely with you on that. Yes, I'm not mainstream parenting but who is to say I'm right and someone else is wrong? It's not my call when it's not my family dynamics. I have no offense, I don't judge others on how they parent with one exception - if the needs are not being met (ie: improper clothing, improper food, no food, beating the child, neglect or abuse) then I am at an obligation legally to do something about it but if I see a mom that needs clothes for her growing 4 year old...I have 3 boys and 2 girls and whack loads of clothes in all sizes. Before I would ever consider judging them or calling some authority on them I would give them my extra clothes. Sometimes that giving hand creates an environment for a great start of friendship. I've been called on out of spite by a supposed friend and by a family member (unfounded, told they were spite calls outright by the SW).

I guess what I'm trying to say is everyone is different, every child is different. I can't parent my 3 year old the way I parent my 9 year old - they are two separate, distinct personalities. It's the same for all families. I'm not your typical mum either...lol... I'm a tattoo clad, piercings (nose, tongue) here and there kind of mum. To look at me without my kids at my side one would say I was one of those 20 something young girls trying to find her way in life. I have a BA in Hyper Multimedia Design, I have 5 kids, I'm 30 and been married for 12 years. It proves your point, we don't judge others because you never know who they really are before you get to know them.

You can also tell that I'm very open, won't hide anything, straight to the point and I'm brutally honest at times. Sometimes too honest at times. I'm rather enjoying this forum, it's a group of people who finally get it you know - finally get that it isn't easy, that's it's not all about the parents and their parenting, that sometimes parenting is truly harder for some people and children than it is for others. I'm so happy to find a group of parents that just get it.

 

[Robinboots]

If by "vax" you're talking about vaccinations for your kids, I didn't mention that at all. I know a lot of people who don't believe in them, to each his own. [shrug]

And I wouldn't say I have "contempt" for so-called natural parenting, I just don't think that term is specific enough for one particular parenting style. If one uses "natural consequences" they may consider that "natural parenting". I think things like the family bed is a bunch of hogwash, simply because 1) danger to the child - which many proponents vehemently argue with; 2) development of the child; and 3) parents need the break and time to be a couple. And those who ascribe to this will argue every point. That's fine.

My stepdaughter started the whole attachment parenting thing, it lasted, oh, maybe a year. And my granddaughter was very whiny whenever Mom was out of sight, and yes, quite annoying - hard to have one-on-one time with Mom hovering within 6 inches to keep Gbaby quiet. She also taught her signing, which only meant that half the time Gbaby was actually communicating, and it delayed her speech quite a bit.

My stepson is likely going the "natural" route with his baby too. In fact, my daughter in law is EXTREMELY opposed to using disposable diapers even in an emergency. I suspect she'll get over that.

My point is that, after 5 kids and two grandkids, some things work and others don't. Sometimes things work with one kid and not with another. And everyone has different interpretations. I imagine you promote your style, just as I do mine. You're young, your kids are young, things could change. Or not. Whatever.

I guess if anything "irks" me, although I didn't say that either, it's that most I've known who start out with all the right "ideals" end up changing them along the way and later even discounting those very same things.

 

[Jody]

Robinboots,

Please re-read your email. It sounds like you definately are irked. I don't generally butt in, but I really can't hold my tongue about your message. Mamaof5 is a new person on our board and is asking for advice, not a critique on her parenting. It is obvious that we all have different styles of parenting and are trying to find ways to help our child that has issues. Some of the things that you are saying are very argumentative and it is very apparant that you irked, angry (shrug) and showing frustration. Please do not welcome someone to the board this way. It could very well deter them from coming back and receiving the help they are looking for. I wouldn't have felt welcome by your post whatsover. Sometimes it is better to just not post when you feel so strongly and feel like you can't express yourself in a nice way. I will probably be blasted about getting in the middle, but do not want anyone to feel personally attacked. We get that more than we can handle with our own difficult child's.

Jody

 

[Mamaof5]

If by "vax" you're talking about vaccinations for your kids, I didn't mention that at all. I know a lot of people who don't believe in them, to each his own. [shrug]

And I wouldn't say I have "contempt" for so-called natural parenting, I just don't think that term is specific enough for one particular parenting style. If one uses "natural consequences" they may consider that "natural parenting". I think things like the family bed is a bunch of hogwash, simply because 1) danger to the child - which many proponents vehemently argue with; 2) development of the child; and 3) parents need the break and time to be a couple. And those who ascribe to this will argue every point. That's fine.

My stepdaughter started the whole attachment parenting thing, it lasted, oh, maybe a year. And my granddaughter was very whiny whenever Mom was out of sight, and yes, quite annoying - hard to have one-on-one time with Mom hovering within 6 inches to keep Gbaby quiet. She also taught her signing, which only meant that half the time Gbaby was actually communicating, and it delayed her speech quite a bit.

My stepson is likely going the "natural" route with his baby too. In fact, my daughter in law is EXTREMELY opposed to using disposable diapers even in an emergency. I suspect she'll get over that.

My point is that, after 5 kids and two grandkids, some things work and others don't. Sometimes things work with one kid and not with another. And everyone has different interpretations. I imagine you promote your style, just as I do mine. You're young, your kids are young, things could change. Or not. Whatever.

I guess if anything "irks" me, although I didn't say that either, it's that most I've known who start out with all the right "ideals" end up changing them along the way and later even discounting those very same things.

I see I've offended you. I didn't mean to and I was very genuinely interested in the background of your thoughts about it. What you describe is not "natural parenting" (some of it, like the whiny child description and hovering) - that's actually called helicopter parenting. Hovering is not what natural parenting is about, nor is attachment parenting about hovering over the child. Yes I ascribe to consensual living (again with health and safety as a non negotiable issue where it's not consensual at all, it's needs that have to be met like medical care, healthy eating, sleeping properly, too much tv and not enough activity - in fact we don't have cable due to this etc). In a way you are right - the label natural parenting is too broad a term. It's an umbrella label to describe several different parenting techniques like consensual living, attachment parenting, communicative parenting, non-violent communication parenting, playful parenting, etc. I slung my babies yes, that's part of attachment parenting of an infant, breastfed only one successfully (my youngest, extended boyfriend too and child led weening at 18 months), I don't vaccinate for medical reasons, my children are more susceptible to vax reactions because it's been studied and found that (in preliminary studies actually, so not fully studied admittedly) that reactions can be genetically inherited.

"Natural Parenting" is used as an umbrella label for lack of a better word to describe multi parenting techniques from those parenting theories. It doesn't mean I think that "mainstream" (another umbrella label if you think about it) is wrong either. I do use many mainstream techniques as well and I don't associate "mainstreamers" with spanking. Just because some does "mainstream" parent doesn't mean they spank, vaccinate or don't\do co-sleep.

We use what works for us, not what works for others. I'm sorry you had bad experiences with "natural parenting" techniques, just proves that it doesn't work for everyone just like for our difficult child kids, not everything works for the individual difficult child child. It takes time to find what does work and doesn't work. I never meant to offend you, I tend to catch the nuances of what people write and say and kind of butt in where I shouldn't at times and I apologize if I hurt you in any way. I have a morbid curiosity of how people come to their own life conclusions and why and what makes them tick mind wise. People keep telling me I should have chosen psychology as a career rather than multimedia *lol*.

I edited because it seems Andy's quoted post is stuck on quoted lol

Also to address the sign language bit - I find it terribly odd that teaching your gbaby sign delayed her speech. Studies have definitively proven this is not actual fact. That signing does not delay speech in a hearing or non hearing child at all. I'm hearing impaired and my 4 year old is significantly hearing impaired (possible significantly deaf, we're still working on the diagnosis actually - she's too young to determine one way or the other only that she has impaired hearing and being autistic it's hard to request compliance from her for testing - we have to catch her on a good day).

All children develop at different rates of cognitive, physical and motor skills developmental stages and milestones. The milestones that doctors use (and my youngest had a gastro specialist who said the same thing I am here) are just that - guidelines. The learning curve for each individual is completely different from others. The brain is a very unique creature, very interesting mechanism within the brain. One will learn to speak at age 3 very well while another takes an extra 2 years and goes in leaps and bounds (my 8 year old was speaking paragraphs by the age of 2 while my 6 year old only started speaking sentences fully and functionally at 4).

Sign Language for a hearing person is a complimentary to actual speech. I've been signing all my life, including in front of all 5 of my kids. They pick it up the same as they would (and did) spoken language. The language centers in the brain treat it as a separate and unique language from their primary form of communication. My kids also speak French, like mum (I was born in Quebec, Montreal actually - bilingual family). Did a speech therapist give your family this misinformation? (based on older theories of language and language development)? If so, I'm sorry they misinformed you like that.

 

[Mamaof5]

Robinboots,

Please re-read your email. It sounds like you definately are irked. I don't generally butt in, but I really can't hold my tongue about your message. Mamaof5 is a new person on our board and is asking for advice, not a critique on her parenting. It is obvious that we all have different styles of parenting and are trying to find ways to help our child that has issues. Some of the things that you are saying are very argumentative and it is very apparant that you irked, angry (shrug) and showing frustration. Please do not welcome someone to the board this way. It could very well deter them from coming back and receiving the help they are looking for. I wouldn't have felt welcome by your post whatsover. Sometimes it is better to just not post when you feel so strongly and feel like you can't express yourself in a nice way. I will probably be blasted about getting in the middle, but do not want anyone to feel personally attacked. We get that more than we can handle with our own difficult child's.

Jody

I'm not offended by her remarks at all. I do sense hostility but it won't drive me off Jody. I'm rather intrigued by her view points actually (again, my morbid curiosity with how people think and work). I asked, she answered but I am very appreciative of you stepping in and defending me. Thank you very much for your defending me.

I see where you are coming from too, in written words sometimes tone and what we are trying to convey comes off wrong. I suspect that Robin may have misread my own request for clarification of her thoughts on "natural parenting" as an aggressive tone. It truly wasn't at all, I was genuinely curious without offense and without judgment at all.

Thank you again Jody, I do appreciate you stepping up for someone whom you barely know. That was very kind of you.

 

[Robinboots]

Good Lord, Jody - I fail to see where I was offensive at all. She asked, I answered. I provided some of my own viewpoints and experience. Big whoop. And, furthermore, SHE wasn't offended. NOW, however, I am irked.

in my humble opinion, if someone wants to parent like this, fine and dandy. Expect issues. Or maybe not. Doesn't make one iota of difference to me personally. I have said, REPEATEDLY, "to each, his own". We all have issues here, we all have good days and bad days. Maybe it all just rubbed me the wrong way. EVERYTHING about being a parent can be "natural", duh. Been happening since the begining of time. If someone wants adivce, well, I gave it, from MY viewpoint. Gee, sorry, no more advice from me. Feel free to ignore all my posts, if there are any more. I was dealing with this cr*p without the board for a very long time, I can do it again.

I didn't cuss her out, I didn't tell she was stupid, I didn't tell her any flippin thing that could be offensive. Maybe YOU are a little thin-skinned on this topic? Whatever. I certainly didn't attack anyone, altho I can't say the same for you, Jody.

 

[Andy]

Mamaof5, I see my post got pasted into a reply that you made about possibly offending? I am not at all offended by anything you have written (and I hope I have not offended you). I think it got there by accident but don't want to assume that. I have no idea how your family works so can not judge to what degree this chart will be right for you or not. You have to go with what feels right for you and your difficult child. Find something that will be natural to work with. If it feels good to everyone involved than it will work. If difficult child struggles with the demands of it then it may be more harm then good. There is so much in every day that we can find to fight about with our kids, WE don't need to create more. If the system adds tension in the home then it probably will not be meeting the needs you set out to do.

I would keep the showering part in since you say that he is good in that area and it will give him a positive recognition.

p.s. You may want to reconsider the rebate part. I could see my kids turning it into "I can do whatever I want! Who cares if I get into trouble, I can earn that money back!" I think once they loose the points then that is it. If the system is focusing more on the positive, the negative should be quick and done with, no hassleing about undoing it. Kids need to learn that in life, when you make a mistake it is not easily undone, you can't find a way to undo it. You just avoid that behavior in the future. The rebate will have the focus on the points and not the action that caused the loss.

Coming up with the chart that is best for your family is harder than it looks isn't it? So much to consider. We see the potential positive outcomes quicker than the negative ones. Once you have come up with the chart you think will work the best, look past why you think it will work and try to figure out why it may not work. Lots of people here can help with that because it did not work for their kids. It worked like magic for mine and was a godsend to my difficult child so I do see why people would like to try this route. Every child is different, all you can do is try and I think learning why it did not work for others is good so you can watch for the downfall symptoms for if it starts falling apart.

 

[Jody]

Robinboots,

I am sorry that you feel attacked. Maybe you will agree with this and maybe not. I wasn't attacking you, I was being truthful. None of the other posts have the tone that you did mamaof5 felt hostility, she felt you portayed contempt for her parenting style. That's not something anyone wants to feel, no matter how you "meant" it when we come here for advice from friends. I am very interested in any charts or reward programs so I always check out any discussion regarding them, not familiar with mamaof5's parenting style and have no reason to be thin skinned about anything relating to it. I did not feel good writing an email to anyone about anything in this nature, it was just something I could not let slip by. It just rubbed me the wrong way. It's called accountability. That's definately something I think all parents, ecspecially the "old fashioned" type know a lot about. I hope the "bad day" gets better and you continue to post, that was not my intention, my intention was to not let what felt (in my humble opinion) a very blatant disregard for putting anything tactfully. Maybe after you have your say we can get back to why the original post was sent. The rewards chart. I have tried a few but always lookf for new ideas.

 

[Mamaof5]

Mamaof5, I see my post got pasted into a reply that you made about possibly offending? I am not at all offended by anything you have written (and I hope I have not offended you). I think it got there by accident but don't want to assume that. I have no idea how your family works so can not judge to what degree this chart will be right for you or not. You have to go with what feels right for you and your difficult child. Find something that will be natural to work with. If it feels good to everyone involved than it will work. If difficult child struggles with the demands of it then it may be more harm then good. There is so much in every day that we can find to fight about with our kids, WE don't need to create more. If the system adds tension in the home then it probably will not be meeting the needs you set out to do.

I would keep the showering part in since you say that he is good in that area and it will give him a positive recognition.

p.s. You may want to reconsider the rebate part. I could see my kids turning it into "I can do whatever I want! Who cares if I get into trouble, I can earn that money back!" I think once they loose the points then that is it. If the system is focusing more on the positive, the negative should be quick and done with, no hassleing about undoing it. Kids need to learn that in life, when you make a mistake it is not easily undone, you can't find a way to undo it. You just avoid that behavior in the future. The rebate will have the focus on the points and not the action that caused the loss.

Coming up with the chart that is best for your family is harder than it looks isn't it? So much to consider. We see the potential positive outcomes quicker than the negative ones. Once you have come up with the chart you think will work the best, look past why you think it will work and try to figure out why it may not work. Lots of people here can help with that because it did not work for their kids. It worked like magic for mine and was a godsend to my difficult child so I do see why people would like to try this route. Every child is different, all you can do is try and I think learning why it did not work for others is good so you can watch for the downfall symptoms for if it starts falling apart.

It was actually a boo boo quote, it's still doing it too. Must be something I did like check mark the multi quote and it's stuck. It did bring about more stuff though from your point of view *lol* all great advice too. Thank you, I think I will leave in the shower part and take out the redemption point thing. I think you're right, it will bring about a sense of "I can just earn it back".

Thank you very much and no I was not purposely quoting you with it. Just a mix up.

 

[Mamaof5]

Good Lord, Jody - I fail to see where I was offensive at all. She asked, I answered. I provided some of my own viewpoints and experience. Big whoop. And, furthermore, SHE wasn't offended. NOW, however, I am irked.

in my humble opinion, if someone wants to parent like this, fine and dandy. Expect issues. Or maybe not. Doesn't make one iota of difference to me personally. I have said, REPEATEDLY, "to each, his own". We all have issues here, we all have good days and bad days. Maybe it all just rubbed me the wrong way. EVERYTHING about being a parent can be "natural", duh. Been happening since the begining of time. If someone wants adivce, well, I gave it, from MY viewpoint. Gee, sorry, no more advice from me. Feel free to ignore all my posts, if there are any more. I was dealing with this cr*p without the board for a very long time, I can do it again.

I didn't cuss her out, I didn't tell she was stupid, I didn't tell her any flippin thing that could be offensive. Maybe YOU are a little thin-skinned on this topic? Whatever. I certainly didn't attack anyone, altho I can't say the same for you, Jody.

I'm sorry you feel attacked. I don't think it was Jody's intention of doing so at all. Like I've said : Tone and intention are not readable in written word. I think a lot of this was miscommunication, mostly on my part. Perhaps "contempt" was an improper use of verbiage for your original post and I do think that's what set it off the most for you and irked you. I apologize for my miscommunication. Though, your second post on the topic says quite a bit about my initial thoughts on your first post. I think when we have bad experiences it colors how we perceive others and our surroundings a lot.

I am not here to change you, your ideals on parenting and I'm not here to make you "switch sides". I'm here, as all of us are, for the same thing you are. Support and understanding. Perhaps we should avoid the topic when interacting with each other if you are comfortable to agree to disagree Robin? I think amicable would best suit us all at this point and perhaps one day we can revisit when and if you desire to. If not, that's okay too.