Can I Quit Now ?

[AnnieO]

I am so sorry. I wish there was something more that you could do. Instead you are going to ahve to wait for her to be 18, to run away, or to violate enough laws that they put her in juvie - I doubt the courts will order Residential Treatment Center (RTC) unless you live where TimerLady lives.

...And it goes on. We're still trying... Keep your chin up!

 

[nvts]

Snicker, snicker...ahem...why not hit the local dollar store and buy cute little stickers...make a behavior chart and you and husband sit there all excited and thrilled with Miss Ally about how sure you are that this will definately work - then ask her why you didn't think of this on your own?...ACS will be called, and you didn't quit! It's a win/win kiddo!
Beth

PS: For anyone new who may be reading this, it's totally tongue in cheek!

 

[klmno]

I love it!! I sure wish I'd thought of that when we had MST!! And by the way- with our's at least, "getting everyone else on board" meant telling the sd that this is what Mom was expected to do if kid didn't do what he should.

 

[timer lady]

DF, jump thru the hoops & do it with a smile on your face. You haven't much time until the help offered will be off the table. I jumped thru each & every hoop placed in front of me....had to be done. I did it with a smile & a sense of humor but inside I was fuming.

Honey, this is the reality of getting this level of intervention for your difficult child. The inane things have to be tested before the big guns can be pulled out. AND I don't mean "big guns" pointed at difficult child ~ they wouldn't let me do that so you can't either.

 

[KTMom91]

Hugs, DF. I understand the "no reward great enough and no punishment great enough" thing.

 

[flutterby]

I have quit, so to speak. I told therapist (who is both my therapist and difficult child's) that I was no longer going to be a therapeutic parent. I told her that difficult child is 16, has always been resistant to parent, has fought every step of the way, and is now responsible for her own therapy. I told therapist that I don't want to know what is going on unless it's something that I absolutely have to know. No matter what I do, I'm the bad guy anyway.

Of course, it's gone over better in theory than in reality. There is always going to be some aspect of therapeutic parenting with difficult child, but I have cut it way back. IOW, when she comes to me with one of her endless issues that I know nothing I say or do will "work", I immediately put it on her and tell her to write it down and work on it in therapy.

That said, my difficult child doesn't exhibit the behaviors that yours does. Have you told MST worker about the numerous times you've done this in the past and the results?

 

[Wiped Out]

Just adding in hugs and my support. I think I would be going nuts!!!

 

[Marguerite]

Well, great. What we know for sure is that difficult child does not give a rat's patootie about anybody but herself. So, what "reward" is going to be big enough or consequence is going to be bad enough to get her to stop what she wants to do when she wants to do it?

"Gee, Ms Ally. If we could do this by ourselves, why would we need you?"

Pass the buck back.

I do agree, you need to be seen to be cooperative. Try this approach even through gritted teeth if you must. Even if you know it is doomed to fail. But whenever she tries to get you guys to write up the behaviour chart or think up consequences or rewards, make it clear - you have been so thoroughly beaten down by this kid and have lost so much confidence in your own parenting ability, that you need her to vet all your ideas and approve them. In other words, make HER authorise it all. Then when it fails, point out that SHE authorised it, said it would work. Even though you have already tried all this stuff and failed (which is why your confidence in this process is at an all-time low).

You want change, you want help, but it needs to be viable.

An example from years ago - a GP I had back then was concerned about my abnormal liver test results. He did not blame it on anti-epileptic medications recently prescribed. Instead he blamed it on codeine, which I was taking at the time along with paracetamol. He actually told me to keep taking the paracetamol (at high doses, yet) and drop the codeine. He told me to wean myself off slowly because CLEARLY (to him) this was addiction. He said that all the symptoms I was trying to treat, were actually caused by the codeine.

I said, "I don't need to wean off, I am not addicted." And I just stopped the codeine immediately. Main side effect - PAIN. But I gritted my teeth and stuck it out for a week. Partway through the week I discovered that the problem drugs were NOT the codeine, but the anti-epileptics and the paracetamol, so I stopped the latter and discussed with the doctor about stopping the former.

After about two weeks I went back to the doctor. "When should the withdrawal symptoms stop?" I asked him.
"What withdrawal symptoms?" he said.
"Pain," I told him. No other problem.
He thought about it. Asked more questions. Finally he said, "You first took it for pain. Now you're not taking it, you're in severe pain again. You're not having problems with any other symptoms. By now, there should be no withdrawal. Oh, and I have also discovered that it's not the codeine, it's your other medications more likely to cause liver problems."
Welcome to the late news!

End result - I went back on the pain management regime, asked to be referred to a pain clinic to support whatever I needed from a more expert point of view, and the GP never mentioned addiction again.

I had not expected anything else, but I went through it anyway because I knew he wouldn't believe what I said; I had to prove it to him and also demonstrate that I was willing and cooperative. In the past, in so many ways, I have found that in order to get what I want from people, I first have to play nice and give them what they want, even if it is idiotic.

Marg

 

[Rainbird]

Wait! Maybe I did! Quick - call CPS!

I should probably lose custody for this...

This made my day...

 

[DammitJanet]

DF, I stll dont think you fully understand exactly how mst is going to hel/you,let me go find the guide.'

http://mstservices.com/

 

[DaisyFace]

DF, I stll dont think you fully understand exactly how mst is going to hel/you,let me go find the guide.'

http://mstservices.com/

You're right....

I DON'T understand.

I read over some of the things in the link you provided. The link says the therapist tries to find a "fit"....fit a strategy to solve a problem.

Ms Ally has talked a lot about "fit" - but I feel like I don't understand what our "fit" is supposed to be.

For example, she asked if I've ever sat down and asked difficult child why she does not like me/respect me.
I said "Yes. difficult child says that I am anxious and stupid"
My Ally said "OK. Did you apologize for being stupid and ask difficult child for ideas on how to improve?"
I said "No."
"Oh, see?" Ms Ally said. "You didn't keep the conversation going..." and she went on to explain that I need to improve my relationship with difficult child and I need to engage her more and do more things with her (for example, it was STRONGLY suggested that difficult child needs to be a part of horseback-riding....and that me not including her is an example of me being cold-hearted)

Well, it never occurred to me that I should apologize for being whatever name difficult child calls me. "I'm so sorry I'm a B---. Please give me ideas for how to improve myself?", "I'm so sorry that I am stupid", "I'm so sorry that I am clueless..." etc

Ms Ally also wants me to confront difficult child during a rage. Instead of allowing difficult child to rage by herself in her bedroom, she wants me to go in there - give difficult child a time-limit on the rage (IOW - you have 20 mintues to pull yourself together) and then assign her a task. If difficult child does NOT pull herself together and does NOT complete the task - I am supposed to impose an immediate consequence. Like what kind of consequence? Well, that's up to me but it needs to be severe enough to get difficult child's attention.

My Ally wanted me to role-play this.

OK, so difficult child comes home from school in a bad mood. She is already angry and flies into the house growling and slams the door.

At this point, Ms Ally feels I should go confront her about the door-slamming and inform difficult child that she gets a consequence for slamming the door.
THEN I am to tell difficult child she has 20 mintues to pull herself together and
THEN I am to assign her a chore.

IF difficult child is not out of her room and completing the chore in 20 mintues, I am to apply another consequence.

According to Ms Ally - this will quickly eliminate the rages.

As for me? I feel ALL the huge stress-feelings rising just at the thought. My stomache is in knots. My head is pounding. I feel like my heart is racing a mile a minute...

And I posted this thread last night, half in jest to express how I was feeling -

but now this morning, really DOES seem like a good idea to say "Screw this!" and just walk away...

 

[AnnieO]

this will quickly eliminate the rages

In what alternate universe?! If I tried this with Onyxx, I'd be in the hospital!

Stomach, head, heart - yeah. It's called the fight-or-flight mechanism, designed to keep you safe. Ms. Ally has NO CLUE.

 

[DaisyFace]

In what alternate universe?! If I tried this with Onyxx, I'd be in the hospital!

Stomach, head, heart - yeah. It's called the fight-or-flight mechanism, designed to keep you safe. Ms. Ally has NO CLUE.

Exactly! I am SCARED to death!!!

And on Wednesday - Ms Ally wants to start us on our Mother-Daughter relationship repair by confronting difficult child about why she interprets my words negatively and then having me respond to difficult child's answers with a lot of "lovey-dovey" kisses, hugs, affection...

I feel like I am going to be sick...

 

[AnnieO]

She really does not get it.

And as for apologizing for difficult child calling you stupid or a *itch... Um, no. That's beyond the line. That's victim behavior. That will empower difficult child to treat you worse.

UGH!

 

[keista]

in my opinion Ms Ally sounds INSANE and in need of some serious help herself One of my favorite self reminders is: "you can't argue logic with illogical" and that sounds like exactly what this crazy Ms Ally is asking you to do.

 

[TerryJ2]

I should probably lose custody for this...

One can always hope!

I don't know what to say, except that I know the feeling. {{hugs}}

 

[flutterby]

1. You are entitled to have your own thing outside of difficult child or anyone else. I would let Ms Ally know that this one is non-negotiable. This is what you do to keep your sanity.

2. Step is right. Apologizing when difficult child calls you a name is victim behavior and a really bad idea.

3. I would ask Ms Ally to be there - either in person or on the phone - when you attempt to set a limit to a rage and the fallout after. If I even attempt to talk to difficult child when she's raging, it is guaranteed to escalate and last longer. She needs to personally witness the consequences of what she's asking you to do.

She has no clue. I'm sorry.

 

[Marguerite]

An angle - ask Ms Ally to be there, because the presence of an outsider generally forces a difficult child to exert maximum self-control; her presence is likely to greatly increase the chance of success.

Marg

 

[klmno]

in my humble opinion and based solely on my limited experience, MST is great in theory but stupid in reality. I was hoping that some MST tdocs were actually doing a lot more and really "got" the problems we parents of difficult child are dealing with. I might have reconsidered trying it with difficult child in this new town if that was so. But more and more, I seem only to find confirmation that these tdocs don't get it at all. It's almost like they are trying to implement Ross Greene's approach yet they can't relate enough to get it right so it ends up either giving into the kid, sending a sense of entitlement to them, and thus making the kid worse, or ultimatley saying "oh, this lead to violence when you confronted the issue- then call the police". And they apparently never figure out (or admit) that this is the point we were at as a family before the MST even entered the picture. KOI- I don't need a PO or therapist to tell me to call the cops. I'm trying to figure what to do to prevent needing to- without covering for my kid or letting him rule the house.

I can see where MST might be able to help a family that has no clue how to provide structure in a home and a child has grown up with no routine, adult oversight to speak of, etc, but parents here on this board are generally not that way. We have already tried that- so what else is out there? Why do we keep having to "prove" to person after pserson that "this" particular method just doesn't work with my kid?

 

[DaisyFace]

Thanks for the re-enforcement...

I swear, in the face of these "experts" I still begin to doubt myself. It's nice to hear that I am not being un reasonable in my thinking.

I am also wondering -

Is there a possibility that this is a way for a new therapist to, in effect, "Call our bluff " ? IOW - the parents complain that they have a problem child. The family does not seem to be making progress in therapy. Now they are demanding more services (which cost more money). The parents say the child is dangerous....well, let's see it then. Let's SEE some brawling, some blood, guts and gore....let's SEE the parents call the cops...

So at the moment, husband and I are of two minds:

Either tell Ms Ally and Idiot Caseworker and senile psychiatrist that we are DONE.

-or-

Follow Ms Ally's plan to a "T". Write out this huge, complicated and overly-wieldy behavior contract, get difficult child to sign it, and the next moment she gets in a bad mood - we pounce on her with this contract and begin to confront her for stomping, yelling, door slamming - consequence, consequence, consequence! Which will invariably lead to a HUGE escalation and violent outburst - requiring at the very least police presence, and possibly hospitalization...

so that we can then turn to Ms Ally, bruised and bleeding, and say "See?"

***************************

I don't know how realistic either of these ideas are right now...

mostly, we are still processing our emotions over this latest suggestion. We are frustrated with this whole process.

AND

I got a call yesterday from Idiot Caseworker's supervisior wondering how the state's services are helping our family. I had to tell her that we have not received any services from the state yet, and we have not heard from Caseworker since end of April. Supervisor seemed surprised...

so TODAY I get a call from Idiot Caseworker with a long rambling story about how she can't do anything because her supervisor is on vacation, so maybe she'll find some service for us in June...but she's not really sure, so she'll give us a call sometime then...

*****************

And difficult child is threatening to go live with her friend L.

I think that would be GREAT! Maybe L's parents can sign a legal guardianship agreement and then THEY can take difficult child to all the psychiatrists and tdocs and therapists etc etc etc


I'm sorry. I know that I am just rambling and venting and there really IS no easy answer....

Thank you all for listening

and for understanding.