Father of Octo Mom

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Nomad, Feb 24, 2009.

  1. Nomad

    Nomad Guest

    Who watched Oprah today? My two main questions: What was your take on the Dad? What was your take on Dr. Oz's comments?

    The father seems like a proud man...but one who is also conflicted, sad, defeated. I sense that he has never really known what the right thing to do was in terms of really helping his daughter. Tragic.

    I really like all that Dr. Oz said re: this situation. How the emphasis should be on the care of the children. Also... how the public doesn't feel like they can trust Nadia and how the medical profession will be and needs to be looking carefully at this doctor.

    Adoption seems like a really good possible alternative. Shades of disordered thinking on the part of mom...scarey stuff.

    I hope CPS will be able to do what is best for the children and that the medical profession will tighten up invitro regulations. I wonder if Nadia will ever be psychologically evaluated and receive likely needed mental health care. Other than this possibility, I don't think anyone wants to see her profit in any, way, shape or form as the result of creating all these children and burdening her parents and society.

    One thing that my husband reminded me of today...we had to take mental health testing before adopting our child. An MMPI and an interview with a social worker. Additionally, we had to provide references and read two child care books and write book reports! This was what the adoption agency required of all applicants and we were happy to do it! Additionally, the agency did not seriously consider couples who already had children or who were over a certain age. I'm not saying invitro and adoption should have the exact same guidelines/rules...but it does seem like there should be some similar standards.

    Thought Oprah conducted herself well. It's hard to say the validity of everything on the show. However, it did for the most part answer many questions.

    We'll see what CPS and the medical profession might do next.
  2. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    Hey, the for pay private practice that makes bank on these 'services' how is it possible that the physician who is manufacturing high risk pregnancies is not in any way shape or form accountable for his private choices in this matter?
    I understand that Nadia is the publics first pick for the social recrimination and the scrutiny, she is a female and what is a womans place if not in the wrong? She did not do this alone. She was not a differant person the first time she did it, the second time she did it, the third time she did it...the fourth time she did it, the fifth time she did it and she only became a public figure when she did it seven times and then had the eight premie babies,too.
    Ok so the cash pay for these implantings at even $12,000 per session is not out of her reach. Does the pricing need to be increased for these so that only the really really really rich have babies when medically they can not do so on own?
    Will it be 'better' when women are in jail cells for wanting to have children? Or just for being 'disorderly thinkers?"
    The big problem are the physicians who would do such a thing. It is an issue of the obsequeous relationship that a physician who makes large amounts of income and,really, is it not better for him if he doesn't 'know' his patient?
    I am so looking forward to watching what does Dr. Oz have to say.
  3. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    This is a horrid situation but I do not think we need to make it more difficult for women to try and get pg through medical intervention. Maybe a limit on how many embryos can be transferred??? But I'm 100% against any structured rules judging anyone as less deserving to have a baby.
  4. Nomad

    Nomad Guest

    I heard Dr. Oz this afternoon on Oprah re: this subject.
    He concentrated heavily on the Dr.'s part in all of this. He spoke about the lack of integrity/responsibility/accountability in all of this.
    I don't recall his exact words...but he indicated that the physician is being investigated.
    I certainly don't give Nadia a pass. I question her mental health. I'm aware of how limited services are for the mentally ill. My guess is her parents have been unable to cope. I don't give Nadia a pass...but I hold the doctor more accountable. No ethics. No responsibility.

    I am waiting to see what happens with this doctor...I find it curious that the great majority of the attention is on Nadia...yet this doctor is at least just as responsible.

    One thing that was interesting is that I don't recall any discussion in today's show about money.

    One wonders if Nadia was paid for her TV interview. Oprah briefly mentioned that she tried to get that interview....

    No mention (I missed a tiny portion though) of how Nadia paid for the invitro fertilzation or her likely dermatological (or plastic) procedures.

    JJJ...you make a good point. Maybe a limit on how many embryos should be implanted. Perhaps medical procedures are less risky these days and chances of sucess is higher. I do wonder if psychological testing might be appropriate for potential parents.

    The entire story is not told. My guess...lots of secrets here.

    We know that both Nadia and this physician seem to be "unwell." We suspect that ulterior motives are at play. Innocent children are at risk....it seems logical that our society would want to take a second look at invitro fertilization standards and regulations.
    Lasted edited by : Feb 24, 2009
  5. C.J.

    C.J. New Member

    I have a dear friend who decided the best course of action for her to lose weight was with a lap band. She had to have a psychological evaluation for THAT!

    IVF comes with its own risks and stressors, and should probably also have a required psychiatric evaluation also.

    In this case though, this doctor went against recommended guidelines of his profession for this procedure. I hope his medical malpractice insurer has it's toughest risk manager assigned to his case when his policy comes up for renewal.

    Sticking the tax paying citizens of California with the medical bills, housing, insurance, food, etc. is a low blow. I wish I were Solomon and could come up with a just and loving answer to this dilemma. However, if the last eight children were placed for adoption, for mom's inability to properly provide for the first six, I would applaud the decision.
  6. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    I certainly don't think they should make it any more difficult or any more expensive for people to get in vitro treatments, if it's done responsibly. For some people, it's the only option if they want to have a child. My own daughter tried to conceive for three and a half years, only to find out that both of her fallopian tubes were completely blocked. Thankfully, her doctor was able to clear one side surgically and she is now expeciting her first child in late May - at age 33. Had they not been able to correct the problem surgically, her only option would have been in vitro. They certainly wouldn't have wanted a 'litter' - they are deliriously happy just to be having ONE!

    But certainly ethics have to come in to it too, and the conscience of the doctor. There should be strict limits on how many embryos are implanted. I understand that there are in some European countries and it should be that way here too, and some sort of screening process. And no doctor should be performing this procedure on someone whose mental stability is in question or someone who has no resources to support and care for the resulting child or children. And it surely should NOT be done at taxpayer expense! In vitro is EXTREMELY expensive, around $12,000 per attempt. This woman with the eight newborns would have been a lot better off to take that money and start college funds for the six children that she already had!
  7. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    I was asked today what it was about this entire thing - what one thing peeved me the most about Nadya Suleman and the octuplets.

    Was it that she didn't work?
    Was it that she had no income?
    Was it that she got food stamps?
    Was it that she didn't plan with the nearly 8 months she had to have known?
    Was it that my tax dollars are supporting HER and her kids?
    then under someones breath _(you're not bothered by illegal immigrants more?)
    Was it that she'll get deals, make money and get to live out her dream because people will support her and those kids?

    I mean what is it that is so upsetting -
    She had 8 kids, she can't afford, you know once donations come in she'll loose foodstamps and ssi - (she'll make too much), then she's going to get rich off of interviews, and magazines and donations, get her house, have her kids and it won't be my tax dollars - so what will peeve me then? That she got her dream? That she's a delusional woman with 14 children? That she gets HER mom to babysit?

    And I laughed and said I don't know - maybe I'm mad because I'm jealous. lol. She's getting her dream funded on the backs of well wishers despite horrific odds......and I'm struggling to buy a used suit at a Good will to bury a kid in.

    I really had to chuckle - she's about the best manipulator the world has yet to know.
  8. Nomad

    Nomad Guest

    Star...that was soooo good.

    I have been struggling asking myself this question as well. For me...not really jealousy...but a twinge of bitterness.

    I do see some irony in that I had to take mental health tests to adopt and I adopted a child who is mentally ill. I had a career and financial security. I had some concerns about my health, but with good health and self care was doing well.

    After difficult child came, I lost my career, my financial security and my health worsened. Additionally, it was hard on my marriage and at times hard for me to care for my other child. I adopted with pure love in my heart and was fully prepared...as best as a person could be. I waited several years to have my first child (bio) and then a few more to have my second (adopted). Why? So that I could save money and make sure everything was in its place.

    After twenty very long, difficult and lonely years and help from professionals (paid for by myself and husband), things are much better. I wish more help had been provided, but am very grateful for the help received. I have learned so much and am in a good place today.

    However, this background likely at least subconscioiusly adds fuel to a fire....

    Most of us like to think that when we help someone...either overtly with our time or by a direct donation or even with taxpayer dollars...that we are helping someone who for no fault of their own are hurting. Or who simply made a bad decision, but there was no ill intent.

    Few people totally trust Nadia's motives. We question her intent. She seems to expect much. She seems to not understand that CPS would have concerns. It feels like entitlement.

    If I/we try to look at it with-o our own personal perspectives interferring, I think the lives of those babies are what is most important.

    The trouble is...the answer to that is likely controversial. Should they be with Octo Mom? Should they be adopted? Should some sort of in between solution be made...like the Truman Show?

    Somehow for society not to learn something from this to me seems wrong. The entire ordeal is disturbing.
    Lasted edited by : Feb 24, 2009
  9. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    What bothers me the most?

    When I look into difficult child's eyes and he has the shine of happiness - I feel it. Excitement - I feel it. When he is scared - I feel it, sad or angry - I feel it. I feel all those emotions with him. I take off work, sleepless days/nights for him. To experience all these emotions with him. To feel sad when he is becoming independent, to miss the hugs and kisses when he was younger. I feel guilty I had to work his entire life. I am jealous of the mom's that get to stay home.

    What bothers me most? Looking into the eyes of those 14 children and know that there just is not any possible way they will have that time they deserve with their mother. I have been at school for events, plays, music recitals and seen the sad faces of kids whose parents couldn't make it. How in the world can these kids share a "family" moment like that? Sports? Music lesson's? how about a Mom and Me day?
    That can't happen. it is just not possible. Even with donations and help. There just is not enough hours in the day to have the time for each little person. And some needing more than others.

    I feel for all here. But these children, ALL of them deserve this chance. I believe something needs to be done.

    As angry as we all get. I know we can recognize a look in our childrens eyes. Without a word we could tend to it. What if you missed it?

    That is what bothers me.
  10. Abbey

    Abbey Spork Queen

    My grandmother had 18 children, but that was a different era and not all at the same time. In the early 1900's you had kids not because you loved to have them, but to work the farm. It was like hired help. That sounds cruel, but it was the reality of living in the middle of nowhere and needing help. Only 5 lived to adulthood.

    I can't even fathom the idea of having 14 kids in this day in age. Who would take that on? "I need to go to the store. Come on kids...pile in the car." Wait...I don't have a car. Crud. I forgot about that. We'll just munch on some grass on the front lawn. Ooops...we don't have a house. Let me think here...oh, I'll call Oprah.

    Give me a break.

  11. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    I think - that anyone that does step forward in the guise of "helping her help the children" is going to be VERY unpopular.

    This may be why no diaper, formula, or car seat companies have come forward and said they're out front with donations - times are tough and this is controversial to say the least. No one needs their business to tank or take a dive because they helped although that really seems like an odd statement.

    I'm going to say it here - because no one else to my knowledge has yet - but ........

    An African proverb said "It takes a village to raise a child."
    But in this case I say - "Now we see a child raising a village."
  12. Nomad

    Nomad Guest

    Star...you are really one interesting lady!
    Thank you for making me think, smile, laugh! Good stuff!
  13. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    I watched the grandfather on Oprah yesterday and quite honestly, I felt sorry for him. Like Nomad said, he seemed defeated and sad. He did admit that they had pampered and 'spoiled' her as a child, but lots of people do that without ending up with FOURTEEN grandchildren! And he did say that SHE had paid for the previous in vitro treatments herself when she was working. I think now that the grandparents are caught in the middle.

    They are saying now that they may not allow the babies to leave the hospital if she doesn't have a suitable place for them or a way to care for them. She would need a bus full of car seats! I haven't heard how she's doing on the donations. No one wishes any harm to come to those children, but it would be a lot different if some kind of guardiain or trust was set up for the kids to oversee any donations that came in. Who would want to donate money that will go to that dingbat so she can get her nails done, buy more video games or have another nose job!