Have you read this.."Girl dies from Bi-polar medications"

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Hanging-On, Mar 23, 2007.

  1. Hanging-On

    Hanging-On New Member

    Half way through the article it kinda tells how much the parents were upping her medications. These people overdosed this little girl to keep her quiet. And they were doing the same to their other kids. Very sick, very sad. :crying: Link to article is below.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17758170/


     
  2. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    Oh this makes me sick!!! Very angry... all the time and effort into trying to educate people that these kids really do need help and now we have to hear more of the, should they even be medicated, can you even diagnosis a young child with BiPolar (BP)???
    The poor kids... the stupid people who were supposed to protect her...
     
  3. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Very sad. I believe that I would also be wondering about the doctor who diagnosis'd a 2.5 year old. Now I totally understand how most of us could tell that "something was up" with our difficult children from a very young age. But BiPolar (BP) at 2? And the comment that the pharmasist said the mother was always coming up with excuses as to getting more medications, why would a doctor continue to dispense to a parent who continually requested refills before they were due? I think the doctor may be just as culpible as the parents.

    I'm glad that the parents are being charged. One of the biggiest issues we fight as parents who medicate their children are the stereotypes of throwing medications to keep our kids quiet and good - that the first thing parents do these days when their kids misbehave is put them on medications.

    A very sad story of a little girl who fell through the cracks when it appears all the warning signs were there.

    Sharon
     
  4. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    Yeah I would be hesitant if someone said my difficult child 2 was BiPolar (BP)... even if she is, and by all means she is showing lots of the same signs as difficult child 1... but come on she is 2.5... I would want a working diagnosis and a lot of rule out's after possible diagnosis's... It is all about education I think...
     
  5. Alisonlg

    Alisonlg New Member

    So terribly sad. :frown:
     
  6. guest3

    guest3 Guest

    sickening
     
  7. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    I don't have a problem with the doctor establishing a working diagnosis of bipolar on a young child. Tigger was symptomatic at 18 months. There was definetly something "not normal" about him. Plus it says that the older kids were also being treated -- bipolar has a huge genetic component.

    I do have a problem with the doctor authorizing the refills. It says she dropped them to 10-day refills so she was trying to do something. Maybe she strongly felt the child needed the medications and was doing her best to straddle the line between getting the child the medications and not giving them to much at once??? And social services was called, they just weren't called soon enough or acted quick enough.

    Sad all around.
     
  8. needabreak

    needabreak New Member

    i read this around a month ago and find it very upsetting.that people would do this.it gives the parents a bad name ,the ones who are trying to help there children and not just quit them up.
     
  9. tryingteacher

    tryingteacher New Member

    This is so so sad. She looks like such a darling little girl.
     
  10. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    These parents should be locked up for life and the dr should lose her license. I agree, that these parents give everyone else a bad name.
    We've lost pills and difficult child has hidden them but we've never had more than 10 unaccounted for in 10 mo's.
    (And that incl. the ones the dog has eaten!)
    I can't imagine how the dr prescribed so many with-o a good diagnosis, plus, the child was way too young.
    by the way, did you notice in the photo where the husband is reaching for his wife's hand, that it looks like they're both handcuffed?
     
  11. Stella Johnson

    Stella Johnson Active Member

    OMG! I had tears in my eyes reading about that poor little girl. :sad:

    people like this give all parents of metally ill children a bad name. I hope they fry the parents.

    Steph
     
  12. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Whether the diagnosis was correct or not is another separate debate. My point of view - maybe in children as young as this, there should be a compulsory independent second opinion, or some sort of registration of diagnosis so some sort of supervision CAN take place. It is too easy for a diagnosis like this to be used as an excuse to over-medicate an otherwise 'normal' child whose parents simply don't understand how to parent. Just because the older kids also had BiPolar (BP) diagnosis doesn't mean that they actually DO have BiPolar (BP), just that the same (now suspect) doctor said so.

    I'm not saying that diagnosing BiPolar (BP) in a child this age is wrong, only that it is open to abuse and that this definitely sounds like an example where the system went wrong.

    I also think the Aussie medication system would work well - drugs like this, even for adults, are "Authority"scripts. In order to prescribe a restricted drug to a particular patient the doctor has to fill out an application form FOR THAT PATIENT to receive THAT DRUG. Even if he has other patients on the same drug, it doesn't matter. Each patient requires their own lot of paperwork, which must be resubmitted every two years. The applications are scrutinised by a team of specialist doctors answerable to the government bodies and with close ties to the Aussie equivalent of FDA and also the national health service, Medicare. This is Federal, not State.

    Each time the patient goes to the doctor for a new prescription, the doctor has to ring up Medicare and request the prescription. Some can be issued with repeats; others must be reissued every month. And in some cases where the doctor suspects inappropriate use of the drugs, the pharmacist has to administer the medication one dose at a time.
    Each time the doctor rings up he gives his authority number, his prescriber number and the unique number of the prescription generated by his computer. In turn he is given an authority number by Medicare. Any previous prescriptions are then cancelled. Also, there is no other doctor the patient can go to, not even another in the same practice. Any other doctor they go to would be discovered when the paperwork gets submitted to Medicare.

    So you take your prescription to the pharmacy. In some cases you have to always use the same pharmacy, just as you have to use the same doctor. The doctor and the pharmacist talk to each other if they need to. The pharmacist administers the medication. If the patient asks for a repeat to be issued too soon, the pharmacist is not permitted to do this. To get permission in extraordinary circumstances ("I've lost the bottle of pills"; "the dog ate the pills"; "water got into the bottle") the pharmacist ring both the doctor and Medicare. Where possible, corroborative evidence must be provided, such as the vet bill for the dog or the water-contaminated bottle of pills. If a patient tries this on too often without proof, they get investigated and often charged. Some nasty cases get uncovered, such as granny being bullied out of her pain medication by a junkie grandson who sells the drugs to buy more. And the case I was involved in a few weeks ago, when I found some empty packets which had been dispensed the day before, then emptied out and dumped in the bin. By taking the empty packets to the pharmacist data on this patient (and also the prescribing doctor) has at the very least been entered on the pharmacist's data base. And probably more - he's probably reported it to Medicare, who will investigate if they already have other similar reports on either the GP or the patient.

    With a lot of authority scripts, a GP can prescribe but only on authority from a higher specialist. For example, I'm on strong pain medications for which I get scripts from my GP, but only because he gets regular letters from a pain specialist authorising him to continue, and telling him what dosage is approved. When my GP redoes the paperwork he has to include copies of those letters in the application.

    It all sounds very Big Brother, but it helps cut down on many forms of abuse.

    But unless you can put something this draconian in place, there will still be cases like this little girl.

    Marg
     
  13. house of cards

    house of cards New Member

    That is sickening, whether ignorance or worse it was so preventable. Her eyes are haunting.
     
  14. sdr413

    sdr413 New Member

    The saddest part of this story is the part about the parents wanting the children to stay quiet. What child is ever quiet for long? Our house has been filled with the NOISE of children from the time I was a kid until now. I was raised with "Children should be HEARD when not seen", so that my parents would know where we were in the yard or house at all times. I raised mine the same way, If I did not hear "kid" noise I went looking for them because they were either into something they shouldn't be in or something was wrong. LOL, I had one that just played so hard all morning that wherever she was when her "batteries ran out" she'd fall asleep, On the living room floor, couch, behind the biggest chair in the living room was her favorite place to hide and once in awhile she would even make it to her own bed. I feel if parents don't want to hear "kid noise" they shouldn't have kids in the first place and to medicated them just to keep them quiet for the parent's convenience is out right child abuse!! That's my point of view.
     
  15. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    How heartbreaking. :crying:
     
  16. dreamer

    dreamer New Member

    I admite my webtv would only let me read the first page of this article that has been posted and this computer at the library would not access the story at all. BUT I had been following this story in my local paper and on TV, since it was first reported a couple/few weeks ago.

    I am wondering if this mom maybe belonged to this forum? DId anyone here encourage her to have her child evaluated? DId anyone here hold her mothers or fathers hand as they began the journey with medications? Did anyone sympathize with the chaos the parents may have been living in with 2 other kids also diagnosis'ed bipolar?

    I read a post earlier this week from a mother who complained her childs psychiatrist did not listen to her.........I have read posts from mothers who could not cope or deal with the chaos, activity level etc their ill children were causing. I have read posts from people who have come here and said the school kept saying they did not see the same behaviors in the children that the parents did. I have read posts about parents who were upset certain medications got denied for their kids becuz insurance did not have them on insurance formularies, or becuz docs did not feel comfortable Rx'ing them, or other reasons. I have read here parents who have said they do not care how certain medications make their children feel, they ARE going to take them. I have also read here people whose pets have gobbled up spilled pills, whose kids have knocked pill bottles out of parents hands and pills have gone down the sink or scattered all over the house etc. I do not remember the ages of the older children, but over the years I have read posts here of older kids who have sold their medications on the street, stolen parents medications for recreational use or to sell.........

    I have first hand experience with professionals not being able to agree between themself, and putting me or my kids in the middle and being stuck between one doctor saying use this medication and another saying no don't. Stuck between a doctor saying use this medication and school calling cps to find out why in the world we would use this medication, and I have been there done that with removing a medication that the doctor told me to remove to have school call cps becuz we DID remove such and such medication.

    This article might help sink it home why sometimes some docs do not seem to listen.......or why some schools question things, or why a pharmacist might refuse to do something ... or why a therapist might throw in input to treatment plans.

    I have read parents here get quite upset when a school nurse questions something or a respite worker has a comment.
    We know people can all have their own version of a story, their own side, their own tale to tell. Most of the time a person is going to want to cover their own bottom if things go bad or wrong.

    When people come here and post you support them. But here we are reading this story and we are not being very supportive or sympathetic or compassionate for this family.
    The media does not always tell the truth. DOcumentation is not always clear, and often can have a spin on it or several twists. (Boy was I horrified when I got copies of my childs medical charts, and school records, it did not sound much at all like how I saw things happening)

    We were not there, in person. we do not really know exactly what happened. or how. We do not know the day to day life of this family, or the conversations that really happened with this family and any of the professionals involved.

    I am a little disturbed with how easily some can stand back and point a finger at this family during their time of tragedy.

    Think how difficult it must be to have 3 children with a diagnosis? SOme of us do have more than one. Think how difficult life is some days. (even with one)
    A tragedy has occurred and many of us should be able to at least understand parts of how it might have been.
    Please do not stand in such critical judgement since we were not there. But for the grace of G-d some of us could very easily find ourself up there on the alter getting blasted by the general (and non understanding) public.

    Mourn the child and situation. Hope for better OBJECTIVE criteria to base a diagnosis on, and for betetr treatment that is not so much trial and error or hit and miss.
     
  17. tracy551

    tracy551 New Member

    I work in a doctors office and any time a patient tries to refill a medication more than the ordered dose we are notified. Why wasn't the doctor notified and and the pharmacist alerted to the fact that the parents keep making up reasons for more medications??? The parents are for sure responsible but the ordering doctor and the pharmacist also should have to answer as well.
     
  18. dreamer

    dreamer New Member

    OK I got my hands on the fu ll text of the article now. (and just read it)

    I know I have had to often cut pills for my husband, my kids and myself, some pills lend themself to cutting better than others. My dtrs Lamictal was a bear to split in half, as was my prednisone. - even when useing a pill splitter.

    I do not know how many times I have read posts from people who came and reported symptoms in their children that would have had me out the door at ER in a flash, but some people did not seem very alarmed and not in a big hurry to get medical intervention for certain symptoms......even if it seemed the symptoms might or could be due to over medication, toxicity or overdose or adverse reaction. I read a lot of posts here from people who do not look up the medications their children take, they simply trust the doctor blindly....and I have heard many times, and also experienced many times where a doctor will say something on a phone but the change is not reflected on the Rx bottle or at the pharmacist. (such as add a half pill more at bedtime)
    I am not exactly sure why the parents status of being disabled and living in subsidized houseing is in the article, unless it is to present the parents in a worse light. Think about it, how many people have job difficulties or their own health issues dealing with even just one ill child?

    So, now that I read the whole article posted above, I still say, wow, ouch........ can we show some compassion towards the family? So much "he said she said" and it is quite possible the parents might be telling the truth. Sounds like they needed HELP........sounds like they sought help- they did have their kids being seen by docs..........
     
  19. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    This makes me SO sick! I am revolted in fact! It is beyond grievous that where all of us on this board have agonized over the right medications, dosages, and combos - these parents just willy nilly handed out medications like candy! I mean, perhaps ignorance is a factor - but really - ignorance does not excuse plain negligence. For goodness sakes the little girl could not even stand up! It makes me cry! And I am not even mentioning how this cultivates society's stigma against medicating our children! AAaaahhhhhhh!
     
  20. dreamer

    dreamer New Member

    ah but for the grace of god walk many of us here on this board alone.

    If you read lots and lots of posts you might find many times many of us have been accused similarly. If you get your hands on all your childs records and documents, you might find things that will shake you to your core.

    When things go bad, people tend to want to cover their own behinds.......and suddenly noone wants to take responsibility.
    did you ever hear the saying S*&T rolls downhill?
    We only have the official public story.we do not know what really happened in this circumstance. The parents very possibly could be sacrificial lambs here.
     
Loading...