I don't want my daughter to live with me...

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Icefairy88, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. Icefairy88

    Icefairy88 New Member

    hi. I came looking for answers through Google and by chance, was connected to this website, which by fake, is probably the best place for me to be right now.

    This morning, my 10 year old daughter had another fight, and I said some pretty nasty things.

    I had my daughter when I was 17. I've been with her dad for close to 12 years now, and we have two boys, almost 8 and almost 4. My daughter was diagnosed when she was 5 with severe, classic ADHD, and cannot function as a person without medication.
    I've never been able to have a bond with her because of the behavioural problems she has. Blatantly disrespecting rules, going around home doing whatever it is she wants, regardless of what anybody has said against it, and regardless of consequences. She is aware of right and wrong, but it's like she doesn't care.
    I know it's not how I've raised her, because I see her two younger brothers as functioning children and following rules, and just all around good kids, and then I look at her behaviour, and it's like I've failed as a parent with her.

    This morning, it was about simple things. She is not aloud anything but breakfast food in the ring ; cereal, waffles, toast etc., and there she goes eating a 3/4 of a bag of gummy worms. We have an elf on the shelf come to our house, and I did something fun last night and toilet papered the whole tree. Well she didn't like it, and took everything down before her brothers could see it.
    These are very small instances. she things everything's a game for her. She can't be within 3 feet of her brothers without causing fights. She can't play with them without having her brothers scream at her. I can't have food in the house without her eating it all, or wasting it. I can't leave her alone for two minutes because she will destroy something even though she knows right from wrong. She makes her 3, almost 4 year old brother look like he knows right from wrong, and my almost 8 year old is literally close to a goddamn angel! It's like she completely LACKS any common sense or caring if she's doing something wrong.
    I don't know how much I can't take of this. She has beaten the love out of me for her. Shes only 10, and I am terrified for her teens to come. I don't know how much more I can take.
    I feel like if I started asking for help, people would look at me as if I'm the one with the problem and that I'm a terrible mother, but when you look at my boys, you know that's not the case.
    I love her, and I wish I could do something, but it's always said "you can't teach common sense" and believe me, I wish there was a way.
    Let it me known, this is not a new behaviour problem that has come up in the past year or two...sits is an issue with her since she was very small.
    To be honest, I can't wait until she's old enough to legally kick out of my house (6 more years where I am), or she chooses to run away, I don't think I would care to look for her. Which ever comes first. I can't stand living with her anymore.
    I feel like I should be ashamed of how I feel. I feel like I've failed her. Obviously looking at my boys, I have not failed as a parent. But I just don't know what other options there are for her or me. I'm afraid of counselling, because I dont want to be looked at as a monster.
  2. SuZir

    SuZir Well-Known Member

    You are not the monster but you sound very frustrated.

    I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but she is your young child and you are a parent. While feeling so frustrated and tired due her behavioural problems is very understandable, you still have a responsibility to do everything you can to help her. And she needs help and you need help on how to deal with her and her behaviours.

    While I'm sure you are a good parent and have tried your very best also with her, it seems like what you are doing with her doesn't work with her. Your parenting methods work with your other kids and I'm sure there are nothing generally wrong with them, but since they are not working with your daughter, chances are, she would need something else. When someone has special needs, things that work for others may not work for them. That seems to be a deal with your daughter. That certainly does not mean you would be bad parents, it means that she needs something else. That something else may be medication, therapy for her, skill coaching for her and it may also include different type of parenting strategies or daily routine. Just remember: That doesn't tell about you being a bad parent, it tells that she has special needs.

    Stop blaming yourself and feeling like this would be your fault and concentrate on accepting your child as a person with different needs than average child and trying to find out what those needs are and how to accommodate them.

    Some practical ideas:
    - Start keeping a diary. Start with writing down your daughter's history. When, what, how? Continue with daily notes about her behaviour and other things that may have contributed. Try to find trends.
    - Start looking for comprehensive evaluation from neuropsychologist or evaluation team from children's hospital, you need to be aware what you are dealing with
    - Get support for yourself. You sound like you could use a break, a breather. Do you have extended family who could have her for a few days during holidays, so you could breath a little. Try to find things in life that help you manage. Things that give you joy and relaxation. Eat well, have enough exercise, try to have some time without kids regularly. Time without kids with your husband would be even better. Take good care of You! It is not easy road to be a mother of challenging child, you have to be sure not to forget yourself middle of it.
    - Find support on how to parent her. There are different methods you can try and some kind of parenting counselling could help. You also need someone outsider you can talk about your negative feelings. They are normal and understandable, but if you keep them on yourself, they can be toxic. And of course they are not something your child should know about and talking too much about them with your husband just burdens both of you and may make you feel even more negative about everything.
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  3. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Hi, and welcome.
    Who did the ADHD diagnosis?
    Has she ever had a comprehensive evaluation - the kind that take 6-10 hours over multiple days? If not, that is what I would be pushing for.

    There are all sorts of possibilities, and we don't know your daughter, and we're just other parents. But this could be something genetic - from either your side, or her bio-dad's side. Or it could be developmental. Or a raft of other things. But until you know what you are dealing with, it is very difficult to know what approach to take in dealing with the issues.
  4. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Hi IF, I am so sorry for your heart ache and difficulties with your daughter. Thank you for being so honest about your feelings, that is not easy, and it must be years of frustration for you. Is her school helping her at all? Does she act out there?
    My friend had similar issues with her girl and took her to a therapist, it took awhile, but they found a combo of medications that helped.I do not think you are a monster, it is frustrating when our young children act out. She may not be able to control her behaviors on her own and she may be just as frustrated as you are.
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    This is the bottom line. A parent can't give up on a minor child or blame the child of only ten years old. Something is wrong and you in my opinion need to find out WHY she can't behave. I don't believe a child is born to try to torture us. You probably should have had an evaluation earlier and not worried about being blamed (a good neuropsychologist will not blame you, but look for where the child is differently wired). You in my opinion need to set up an appointment with a great evaluator (not just a therapist) right away so you can know what's going on and help her help herself. The fact that you have not bonded with her is significant and bad for the child. Not blaming you...our feelings can't be helped...but on top of testing her, bonding can be done in therapy. You don't have a bad child and this isn't about your parenting. You have two other kids who are "typically wired" and they are fine. Your daughter is not doing this on purpose; not at her age. She was born different and WILL get worse without help, but if you don't help her, then it in my opinion does fall on us as parents. We have no outcome guarantees, but we do have an obligation to try when our children are minors.

    I give you a cyber hug for your hurting heart and hope you will heed some of the excellent advice you have received. A neuropsychologist or group of specialists through a university hospital in my opinion are the most capable professionals in figuring out what is wrong with your child...it sounds way beyond ADHD. ADHD is often a first diagnosis., but it rarely stands alone.
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  6. Icefairy88

    Icefairy88 New Member

    I've been talking with my mother this morning. She knows the kind of struggles we've had with her over the years. I was so upset that she offered to have my daughter move in with her for the rest of the school year to give us a break. I told her that I didn't think it was an option.
    We've sevens counsellors in the past who had no personal experience with living with ADHD kids, and it ended in disaster. We see her pediatrician in the new year.
    I think she is probably ODD (oposistional defiance disorder) which a lot of the time goes hand-in-hand with ADHD. She's been this way since she was very small. Every symptom we read, she has. It's starting to spill over to defying and talking back to her daycare teachers (they go to daycare after school), recently, at her grandparents it's starting. She has a hard time with her peers and keeping friends.

    I take time outs every 2-3 evenings to go have coffee with my girl friends. They know the issues we have, but not the lessor feelings I have because of it.

    I feel like a monster. I feel that the feelings I have towards her are unsettling to myself because I don't feel this way towards my sons. But my mother even said, when she was raising my brother and I, she would have taken 10 little boys to one little girl because girls are significantly harder to raise. That's not a shot against me, I know I was hard to raise but for different reasons than we are experiencing with my daughter.
  7. Icefairy88

    Icefairy88 New Member

    P.s. Moving in with my mother is not an option to be because I feel that though it may be good for a while, the time will come when she starts to display this behaviour again, and that moving her, would not solve the issues she's having.
  8. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    I am sorry but this is not a nice thing to say to a daughter. I have 4 girls and 1 boy, they are all unique and different.
    Have you tried counseling? Perhaps to vent, or even to get help for resources in your area to help your daughter. I know it must be very hard. I do believe there must be some help out there for your girl.
  9. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    ODD is a diagnosis I tend to stay away from. It can be useful as a placeholder - recognition that something else is at work here but we don't know what it is yet. There are absolutely NO therapies or medications that have any impact on ODD. There are, however, dozens of other diagnoses that can generate the same symptoms, either as part of the diagnosis, or from frustration in not having their real needs met in the first place. Dealing with the REAL diagnosis is the only thing that has worked for us.

    I'm not saying this is what she has... but go look up Asperger's Syndrome. It's part of the autism spectrum. Difficulties in communication, interpersonal relationships, transitions, sensory issues... and lots of lashing out. Lots of high-functioning kids on the autism spectrum have been labeled ODD.

    When I was trying to figure out what was causing my challenging kid's problems... I could see the child's behaviors in a dozen potential diagnoses. Scared myself stiff. I'm glad I did the research, though - it led to asking lots of questions, some of which got us partial answers. And partial answers are better than none at all.

    Try getting your hands on a copy of "The Explosive Child" by Dr. Ross Greene. It put a whole different perspective on things for our family.
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  10. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Yes IC , so there is definitely something going on with your daughter IF, so now it's about trying to find out what, why and how to help her? All of the frustration and anxiety channeled into finding a way to get her functioning. I have seen many of our children in school with the correct diagnosis and medications, turn around. I think it would help you tremendously IF, if you knew just what was going on with your girl, and how to help her, especially while she is still so young.....
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  11. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    Hi and welcome, Icey!

    Your daughter needs a comprehensive evaluation by a neurophycologist. Please check into this today. Call you local University. You may need a referral, not sure, but get the ball rolling. Others here have experience with this and can tell you more about it and how to get started.

    Just an aside; my hubby would say the opposite--girls are much easier than boys according to him! That is his experience. His sons are very difficult (yet totally the opposite of each other) and our daughter is probably the easiest child on the planet. Just a matter of perspective.

    You are not a monster. This is a safe place to vent. It is better to get those feelings out on paper and deal with them than keep the bottled up inside. There is no use in denying them, but better to learn how to deal with them. We all get frustrated with our difficult kids.

    Please stay with us.

  12. Icefairy88

    Icefairy88 New Member

    I called my daughters pediatrician. She has an appointment on January 6th. My mom has advised me to make point form lists of each of her surrounds (eg. Home, school, daycare, grandparents house, with peers and with siblings) and list the difficulties she is experiencing in all those environments. When she comes up for Christmas, she will help me fine-tune my lists with me. I'll bring them with us to her pedi appointment and request that she is evaluated by a neurophycologist as soon as possible.
    I understand that this could be something other than ODD, but all signs point to that, and there is research to back up the fact that a whopping 40% of kids with ADHD also have ODD, or are 11 TIMES more likely to develop ODD at some point during adolescence. My daughter has been thoroughly tested before, and all autism spectrums were ruled out and continue to be ruled out. It is classic ADHD. I have no reason to further question her diagnosis. I do think, however, there is something else at play here with her blatant defiance, spitefulness and vindictiveness starting at a very young age and gradually spilling over into other environments. No matter what it is. I plan to get some answers.

    In the mean time, I just I was just looking for a hug for how I was feeling, and also to just feel that I am not alone.
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  13. HMBgal

    HMBgal Active Member

    So not alone! Does she have any environments in which she functions well? School, for example? And I second the Explosive Child book. It didn't make our problems go away, but it allowed us to reframe and helped us communicate more effectively. I've used those techniques as a special education teacher. Also, they are great techniques to use with your boys, too. My grandson's kindergarten teacher told us about it early on when things got really crazy and it helped us so much. We used what made sense for us at the time because he was so young, but we revisit every so often and are still finding good ideas now that's he's older. And a big bear hug to you!
  14. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member


    I hope we haven't been to harsh.

    I want you to know that we do believe that you are doing the best that you can. We all are.

    We must give each other a lot of grace. We all make mistakes.

    Some people here believe that the ODD diagnosis is just a placeholder until they figure out the real diagnosis. Others don't. I don't have any perspective on this, as I have come to the boards because of my young adult step-son. I think having something diagnosed other than just ADHD will be a blessing for you, however. At least it will point you in the right direction.

  15. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Good for you Icey. I am glad your Mom is helping you, and you will get some answers. There are many folks here who can be of help on your journey. I started having difficulty with my eldest around 10, but her behaviors were more towards school and such. Looking back now, I wish I had seen more than I did when she was growing up. You are doing the best job you can as a Mom and it is natural to be frustrated and anxious after such a long hard road. There are no judgements here, just other folks who have been on similar roads and care deeply for all the folks who end up posting here. We are just a bunch of warrior Moms and Dads, ( some grandparents too) looking for answers and understanding. I hope you keep posting and let us know how things go with you on your journey.
    Big big hugs to you. Take some deep breaths. I am glad you are able to get out for some " me" time, this is very important. You matter, and have much value.
    Thank you for sharing, my prayers go out to you to find some solutions and peace in your home.
    My third girl is your age and very focused on herself and her own struggles with substance abuse...... Hats off to you, as a young mother trying to do the best for your kiddos......it is not an easy road, just by your being here, shows how much you love your girl and want the best for her.
    Keep posting, and know that we are with you in spirit and cyber- ly!

  16. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    .....and Icey, you are definitely, emphatically, NOT ALONE!!!!!
    (((Big Hugs)))
  17. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Good idea.
    Also start a journal. Not just of the problem behaviors, but of what went before. For example, her taking all the TP off the xmas tree... her brain may just say "that doesn't belong there, why would you do that and 'wreck' the tree"... There is often a lot of hidden triggers that show up looking back in a journal. Things to note include transitions, meals, additional people or changes to routines, etc.
  18. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    I'm not trying to flog a dead horse here... but I would really have appreciated it 10 years ago if somebody could have told me this stuff.

    If that's the case, then half of my relatives should be or should have been ODD. But ODD is actually quite rare in my family tree, although ADHD is rampant (something like 80% of my generation and younger with formal diagnosis of ADHD).
    There are all sorts of "facts" out there. Many are contradictory. But some that I found when I was up to my eyeballs in research include...
    - many kids with auditory processing disorders end up with an ADHD diagnosis instead. They can't "focus"... oh? really? maybe they can't pick up what the verbal instructions are in a noisy classroom (ALL classrooms are noisy, some are just worse).
    - many kids who are high functioning but on the autism spectrum end up with an ADHD diagnosis because they can't sit still, are always fidgeting.
    - mental health issues can end up being labeled ADHD, as can sensory processing disorders (over or under sensitive to stimuli)
    I can't find the post I made a few years back, right now. With actual stats.
    Just my opinion, but the fact that so many ADHD kids "end up with ODD" tells me that it's more likely that lots of ADHD kids have the wrong diagnosis... and that goes double for girls.
    Ignore the statistics. They can be manipulated in dozens of ways. And... the stats mostly apply to boys, not girls. The real numbers for girls get buried by the higher count of boys. Unless you have all the details of the study... it's just media hype.
    About the "autism has been ruled out" statement. Just for the record. We spent 18 years trying to get help for my challenging child. An alphabet soup of diagnoses. Most of which were either outright wrong, or wrong in degree (anxiety was a secondary issue, caused by other issues, not a primary issue). When we got to adulthood and got some REALLY good doctors? He has Asperger's, plus a mental health condition. Absolutely everybody else ruled out Asperger's and everything else on the autism spectrum. But... he DOES have it. We knew by age 14 - and changed our approach, and that made more difference at home than anything else... but we couldn't get school to buy in.
    Please leave all prior rule-outs OFF the table this time around. Start from scratch. And do not let the pediatrician do the diagnosing. You need someone who specializes in intensive evaluations - whether it's one person or a team.
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  19. Icefairy88

    Icefairy88 New Member

    I agree that I should consider keeping my opinions open to the possibility that it may be something completely different that we are dealing with. I will mention it to our pedi that we would like to start at ground zero to determine a cause for all of her behaviour concerns and have a neurophycologist evaluate her.
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  20. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Just chiming in my welcome! You have already received some good advice. I hope you find time to take care of you. It's so essential!