Trading one mess for another

[newstart]

Adult daughter age 41 has some improvements and some set backs but the set backs are not as harsh or deep as in years past. She is still odd, moody but can get a grip with it better. Her terrible 'off' times are when a man is involved in her life. It really knocks her completely out. The creepy boyfriend has been gone for a while and she has managed to pull herself together a bit better. She is exercising and eating better and miracles of miracles her home is looking better each year. She is living in a rent home her dad and I bought and in 3 years it will be paid off. This was not easy to do with her radical lifestyle, toxic room mates and trying to get out of paying rent. But here we are only 3 more years and she can live rent free. She has made money from investing, selling items and works a couple of jobs. Our relationship is ok as long as I don't ask personal questions but this is a far cry from years ago.
The main problem I have now and it is major is my husband's behavior. We got our daughter somewhat settled and now he is doing some really stupid stuff. One of the most major stresses in our life is his bipolar family. His sister and both brothers are bipolar. They are mean and nasty not just to me but to him too. I had to cut ties completely because they were so out of hand. I have never experienced such demonic hateful behavior in my life, but then I think just a few years back I experienced it from my own daughter. With my daughter I have worked it out through years of therapy.
My husband feels the same way and has told me his siblings grief him to the core. Here is the problem, he calls and emails them and just recently will not leave them alone. Why the H*LL would he contact them and tell them our business? So they email back and forth and like usual they said something to him that has caused him deep depression and his back is so sore that he can't hardly walk. I almost ended up in the hospital years ago after being around them because they are so demonic. My husband tells me they are demonic but will not leave them alone. I usually have a very peaceful home but quite frankly I want to leave him but opening lines of communication with people that wish us ill will, most recently his sister called us and told us we were going to die soon, she said she had a dream. His one brother did that years ago to us too.
I don't even know who my husband is anymore. He is someone that is putting us into a heap of danger. While I was burying my son years ago his brother said he wants to beat me up, and when asked why, he did not have an answer. The other brother was horrific to my son when he was alive so no way do I want anything to do with him either.
My husband is an intelligent, nice looking and fit man but OH MY GOD how can he be so deeply stupid. I did not mention that he never told me that he was connecting with them behind my back, I found out because he was acting so horrific that I had to keep asking him over and over again why the huge horrible change in his personality, he finally admitted that he opened that line of communication and got the beating that we both knew would happen. Since then he has been drinking, we both do not drink, and living sloppy, we used to have a nice home and spending money here and there which I did not even know about and being sneaky about other things. I believe he has let the demon activity into our home. We is almost 70 and I am not far behind, this has shocked me to the core, I don't even think I like him anymore. Who in the right mind makes their life so hard when they don't even need to? He has told me for years that they are the worst people he has ever known. He has told me that they are demonic! Why on earth would anyone open that portal? Anyway it looks like there will be some major changes going on around here and I am not sure what will come of it but I know for sure I can't live like this.

 

[ksm]

I'm so sorry that things are so difficult right now. I don't have a clue what you should do, but I understand this can not keep going on. Hopefully, maybe both of you can come up with a solution.

Ksm

 

[newstart]

Thank you Ksm. I don't know what I am going to do either. To make matters worse he has invited a toxic family member to our home in March. When asked why he said 'because he is the least toxic of them all'. Why have any toxic people at your home? We can talk to each other and things are a bit more civil but I feel as if I have been kicked in the gut. I treasure my peace since I had gone so many years without it. That saying 'If it cost you your peace, it is too expensive. so true. I am besides myself as just as I got to take a little breather over my daughter. What an A.H.

 

[in a daze]

I am so sorry you are going through this, Newstart. Is this a change in his personality?

 

[Copabanana]

Hi newstart
I am thrilled for you to learn that your daughter is doing better and that you are feeling more secure and positive about your relationship. But I am so sorry to hear that your husband's behavior has taken this turn. I can only imagine your sense of betrayal and confusion. The thing is, I wonder if you would be paying too high a price to leave the marriage. People, all people, I believe have an irrational part—even the sanest of us.
Like you say, your husband may not understand why he is doing such a thing. But in my experience, almost all of us do something, sometimes that is not in our self-interest and may even be an act of self-betrayal.
You write this has cost you your peace. Forgive me if i am overstepping, but we can redefine our peace. I have learned I am even capable of redefining what love is._ And after going back to the drawing board and redefining love, I have found in myself the sweetest and deepest love. A far better version!
Maybe you would be willing to do something similar, as a way to accept your husband, even though you don't approve of his behavior and choices in this instance.I do not doubt that what he is doing has cost you great pain. But the thing is newstart, look what you've recovered from. Look how you've come to grips with the pain and disappointment with your daughter, and so much more. You can do this.
Your husband may not doing this against you. I do not believe he is. If you could try to see it this way, that he is momentarily lost to himself. Maybe this will become more bearable. You are very strong. With so much love to give. You can do this.
PS The part of this that I find the most noxious is if he invited the family member to your house without consulting you. While i think I would want to talk to him about this, at this point, if things are getting slightly better, I would not want to inflame them. It truly does sound like he is acting outside of what is his normal personality. All of it is concerning. I am so sorry.
_

 

[newstart]

I am so sorry you are going through this, Newstart. Is this a change in his personality?

Yes, huge change and a terrible change. We are usually a team. His behavior in unacceptable. I don't think I even like him. Who would do this kind of stupid dangerous stuff? He knows the trouble he is getting into.

 

[newstart]

Hi newstart
I am thrilled for you to learn that your daughter is doing better and that you are feeling more secure and positive about your relationship. But I am so sorry to hear that your husband's behavior has taken this turn. I can only imagine your sense of betrayal and confusion. The thing is, I wonder if you would be paying too high a price to leave the marriage. People, all people, I believe have an irrational part—even the sanest of us.
Like you say, your husband may not understand why he is doing such a thing. But in my experience, almost all of us do something, sometimes that is not in our self-interest and may even be an act of self-betrayal.
You write this has cost you your peace. Forgive me if i am overstepping, but we can redefine our peace. I have learned I am even capable of redefining what love is._ And after going back to the drawing board and redefining love, I have found in myself the sweetest and deepest love. A far better version!
Maybe you would be willing to do something similar, as a way to accept your husband, even though you don't approve of his behavior and choices in this instance.I do not doubt that what he is doing has cost you great pain. But the thing is newstart, look what you've recovered from. Look how you've come to grips with the pain and disappointment with your daughter, and so much more. You can do this.
Your husband may not doing this against you. I do not believe he is. If you could try to see it this way, that he is momentarily lost to himself. Maybe this will become more bearable. You are very strong. With so much love to give. You can do this.
PS The part of this that I find the most noxious is if he invited the family member to your house without consulting you. While i think I would want to talk to him about this, at this point, if things are getting slightly better, I would not want to inflame them. It truly does sound like he is acting outside of what is his normal personality. All of it is concerning. I am so sorry.
_

Thank you Copabanana. I am deeply concerned about him and his stupid choices. When I asked him why he is doing such stupid things he said he does not know. He knows how strongly I feel about opening that bag of worms with his family. He gets beat up from them each time yet he continues. What kind of idiot does that? This is suppose to be our Golden years. I don't want to replace him with another man, I just don't think I like him anymore. What I mentioned is just the tip of the iceberg. He severely irritates me daily for about 6 months now. I am always trying to make things better and I look at myself up and down to make sure I am not contributing to any of it. I ask him what I am doing wrong because I can end it quickly, that is how important peace is to me. The only other person that can see all this is our daughter and she always sticks up for her dad but recently told me she could not tolerate 1/2 as much as I have had to recently. I am always asking myself what I can do differently to make things better but I also know I can't be highly annoyed on a regular basis.

How are things with your son? How are things with you? You have always given me good insight. I feel as if I have tolerated enough BS to last a lifetime. I do not want this in my golden years. I hope your golden years are going well.

 

[New Leaf]

Hi Newstart,
I am so sorry you are going through tough times with your husband. It is hard to watch a partner make choices and behave in ways that are detrimental to a trusted relationship.
My hubs had a super dysfunctional family. Mainly driven by his abusive father. He held a lot of baggage due to that and we had some extremely rough patches as a result. When he became ill, he was not easy to live with, isolated himself even more and unfortunately with the stress of our two waywards choices, coupled with illness, spiraled downward.
It was hard.
I had to switch my focus and live my life. But, I did not leave. It was hard, but in my case, leaving would have been harder.
We all go through phases in our lives. I find as I grow older, I am still trying to figure out who I am.
I agree with Copa that you are an incredibly strong woman. Prayers going up that as you navigate this difficult time, you use that strength to somehow find peace.
“Fried Green Tomatoes” remember that movie? That helped me forge my way through the tough times. I couldn’t change my hubs, so I focused on change within.
(((Hugs)))
New Leaf

 

[Fairy dust]

I am so sorry that this is happening especially when you are finally getting a balance with your daughter thus giving you a chance to breathe. I am not meaning in any way to inflame this situation however consider having him go for a very thorough medical. Often personality changes can come about if there are some underlying medical issues that need to be treated. This happened with my father. I suggest you keep a journal outlining your observations, the time of day , any outbursts, poor decisions etc etc. This may be helpful for the doctor If your husband agrees to go, and hopefully you will go with him. I wish you the best. You deserve to live in peace.

 

[newstart]

Hi Newstart,
I am so sorry you are going through tough times with your husband. It is hard to watch a partner make choices and behave in ways that are detrimental to a trusted relationship.
My hubs had a super dysfunctional family. Mainly driven by his abusive father. He held a lot of baggage due to that and we had some extremely rough patches as a result. When he became ill, he was not easy to live with, isolated himself even more and unfortunately with the stress of our two waywards choices, coupled with illness, spiraled downward.
It was hard.
I had to switch my focus and live my life. But, I did not leave. It was hard, but in my case, leaving would have been harder.
We all go through phases in our lives. I find as I grow older, I am still trying to figure out who I am.
I agree with Copa that you are an incredibly strong woman. Prayers going up that as you navigate this difficult time, you use that strength to somehow find peace.
“Fried Green Tomatoes” remember that movie? That helped me forge my way through the tough times. I couldn’t change my hubs, so I focused on change within.
(((Hugs)))
New Leaf

Thank you for your insight New Leaf. I will try to watch fried Green Tomatoes, it has been a while since I watched it. I am so sorry you had a rough time with your husband before he passed. You sure have had it. I think you are a very strong woman and I admire you. I send much love and compassion.

 

[newstart]

I am so sorry that this is happening especially when you are finally getting a balance with your daughter thus giving you a chance to breathe. I am not meaning in any way to inflame this situation however consider having him go for a very thorough medical. Often personality changes can come about if there are some underlying medical issues that need to be treated. This happened with my father. I suggest you keep a journal outlining your observations, the time of day , any outbursts, poor decisions etc etc. This may be helpful for the doctor If your husband agrees to go, and hopefully you will go with him. I wish you the best. You deserve to live in peace.

Thank you Fairy dust. He goes to regular check ups and has been on arthritis medication for 20 years so gets his blood work check up regularly and is good at going to his yearly check ups. His best friend just moved far away and I know that is hard on him. We do activities together and are involved with other people so I have no idea why he would want to connect with people that are so ugly and mean to him. They are equally mean to me and no way do I want to continue with them EVER. The damage has been done over and over again. And them being bipolar is no excuse for the abuse. I have had to go no contact with some of my family members and I think it is very sad but had to be done for mental health. I do feel highly betrayed. Not sure which direction I will go with this. I don't think that he is having an affair. But you never really know. What bothers me the most is the sneaky stuff. The worst feeling is the betrayal.. The last time he had a Dr visit I told him, be sure to tell your Dr that you now act like an A.H. He said 'I will not tell my Dr that' I said I think you should so he could give you a better check up. He will not let me go to his Dr visits with him because I will tell the Dr the truth.

 

[Deni D]

Newstart, I've always liked to hear how your daughter has been able to pull things together over the years, even with all of her slip ups in the middle, she's done good.
But your husband worries me from what you have written. Do you think he's gotten to a place where he wants to pretend his family is fine just because they are his family? Do you think you are now an issue, getting in the way, and annoying him, all of a sudden just like that?
I am very familiar with a bipolar in-law family so I know the answer, not that I don't feel for them but I can only deal with certain members from afar. It could be because he's getting older he feels like he needs his family, as they are. Or it could be he has some medical issue, or both.
So to be very blunt I think he needs an in-depth medical work up including blood work like testosterone levels and vitamin levels and then on to a neurological (memory) workup from there. And if nothing is found then if you can talk to him about going into therapy it would be a good idea. Who knows what's up, but you know something is different better than anyone else. And I think you need to come down on him in a big way to get some help, yep threaten him if you need to. And really considering all of my forced HIPPA knowledge I know you could call his Dr up and tell him how your husband has been acting like an A.H., he can't tell you anything but you can tell him.

 

[Copabanana]

So to be very blunt I think he needs an in-depth medical work up including blood work like testosterone levels and vitamin levels and then on to a neurological (memory) workup from there. And if nothing is found then if you can talk to him about going into therapy it would be a good idea.

I know you could call his Dr up and tell him how your husband has been acting like an A.H., he can't tell you anything but you can tell him.

Wonderful advice.

 

[Copabanana]

I just don't think I like him anymore.

I think this is more common than people acknowledge. You are so well-served by your honesty, I think.

I also know I can't be highly annoyed on a regular basis.

Yes. But the thing is, only we can find our peace. You can set internal and external boundaries in such a way as to not be so vulnerable to his acting out. Even if you do live with him. But the thing is he is undercutting you in ways you can't defend yourself. Like inviting people without consulting you, in your own home. No go. I would go ballistic. I have.

I so much agree with Deni about insisting he get checked out medically and psychologically. INSIST. In my state which is California, the University of California has neuropsychological clinics that serve all ages but especially focus on older adults that may be declining, to rule out anything serious. I trust those people. If you want to PM me I will look around in your state to see if I can find someplace excellent. In my state, it is completely covered by Medicare. I took my son there when he was a toddler. There should be a psychiatrist, and social worker involved and a neuropsychologist.
What you are describing is a serious and pervasive change in your husband's behavior. This is a red flag. Of course, it's more than annoying. But for a wife, it's terrifying and troubling. This happened to my girlfriend's husband. And she went nuts. Just nuts. That was her and you are you
I think you sometimes don't fully accept and acknowledge your great strength and resilience as a person. The way you turned things around with your daughter, and supported her to turn things around for herself, was so deeply admirable. How many stories are there like this on this forum? Not many. You can cope with far more than you acknowledge. Should you? No. But often our options are none of them that good. We have to go with the least worst. I think Deni's post gives excellent guidance.

PS. Thank you for asking about me, and us. Things are not as bad as they have been but still nowhere near good. I have been working and I am very, very tired. I chose it but sometimes I feel nothing could be worth this fatigue. I don't know if you remember M, the man I used to live with who has helped me so much. We're getting closer again, after living apart a number of years.. That is good. He is so supportive and kind to me. I need to acknowledge and be grateful for the blessings. Love, Copa

 

[newstart]

Newstart, I've always liked to hear how your daughter has been able to pull things together over the years, even with all of her slip ups in the middle, she's done good.
But your husband worries me from what you have written. Do you think he's gotten to a place where he wants to pretend his family is fine just because they are his family? Do you think you are now an issue, getting in the way, and annoying him, all of a sudden just like that?
I am very familiar with a bipolar in-law family so I know the answer, not that I don't feel for them but I can only deal with certain members from afar. It could be because he's getting older he feels like he needs his family, as they are. Or it could be he has some medical issue, or both.
So to be very blunt I think he needs an in-depth medical work up including blood work like testosterone levels and vitamin levels and then on to a neurological (memory) workup from there. And if nothing is found then if you can talk to him about going into therapy it would be a good idea. Who knows what's up, but you know something is different better than anyone else. And I think you need to come down on him in a big way to get some help, yep threaten him if you need to. And really considering all of my forced HIPPA knowledge I know you could call his Dr up and tell him how your husband has been acting like an A.H., he can't tell you anything but you can tell him.

Hi Deni D. Everything you wrote has gone through my mind. They are his family no matter how horrible they are. Can I live with him constantly trying to bring them back? HELL NO. Can he live like that? HELL NO it makes him terribly sick. Just like a drug addict or alcoholic that just can't stop. How can someone keep touching a snake when it bites him over and over again? I have called his Dr's in the past and when he finds out there is much stress. Today he woke up in a good mood. He does not understand why I am angry with him, after all it was in the past. I said just a few weeks ago, he said 'that was in the past' what about it March when I have that toxic family member coming, that is in the future. He asked me why I can't just let it go. So I open my email and I see our money going for all kinds of tickets for this toxic family member. Expensive tickets. I guess that is in the past too since it was a few hours ago since he ordered them.
I have been looking at Solo cruises. I need to get away. Yesterday when I said my daughter was doing a bit better the other shoe fell off and her ugly tone came back. I am wore out, completely wore out.
I wish I had a little cabin to live in.
I put all my energy into fixing, cleaning moving our family ahead.
My sister and my two best friends died with in 4 years of each other. They were women I did everything with. I look in the mirror and I don't even recognize myself. I get out and make friends but most people have their head phones on or head in their phone.
I miss my son terribly. He was a good soul. Honest, kind, loving. He was a good human. I miss his long genuine hugs the most. Best hugger in the world.
Just feeling sorry for myself. Will snap out of it soon. Thank you for your insights and comments. LOVE YOU ALL.

 

[newstart]

I think this is more common than people acknowledge. You are so well-served by your honesty, I think.

Yes. But the thing is, only we can find our peace. You can set internal and external boundaries in such a way as to not be so vulnerable to his acting out. Even if you do live with him. But the thing is he is undercutting you in ways you can't defend yourself. Like inviting people without consulting you, in your own home. No go. I would go ballistic. I have.

I so much agree with Deni about insisting he get checked out medically and psychologically. INSIST. In my state which is California, the University of California has neuropsychological clinics that serve all ages but especially focus on older adults that may be declining, to rule out anything serious. I trust those people. If you want to PM me I will look around in your state to see if I can find someplace excellent. In my state, it is completely covered by Medicare. I took my son there when he was a toddler. There should be a psychiatrist, and social worker involved and a neuropsychologist.
What you are describing is a serious and pervasive change in your husband's behavior. This is a red flag. Of course, it's more than annoying. But for a wife, it's terrifying and troubling. This happened to my girlfriend's husband. And she went nuts. Just nuts. That was her and you are you
I think you sometimes don't fully accept and acknowledge your great strength and resilience as a person. The way you turned things around with your daughter, and supported her to turn things around for herself, was so deeply admirable. How many stories are there like this on this forum? Not many. You can cope with far more than you acknowledge. Should you? No. But often our options are none of them that good. We have to go with the least worst. I think Deni's post gives excellent guidance.

PS. Thank you for asking about me, and us. Things are not as bad as they have been but still nowhere near good. I have been working and I am very, very tired. I chose it but sometimes I feel nothing could be worth this fatigue. I don't know if you remember M, the man I used to live with who has helped me so much. We're getting closer again, after living apart a number of years.. That is good. He is so supportive and kind to me. I need to acknowledge and be grateful for the blessings. Love, Copa

Copabanana, I understand your tiredness. I am glad that M is back into your life and that you are happy about it. I love that he is kind to you and supportive. Thank you for your valuable insights and support. I will do my best with the medical stuff.
I think I want to live away from my husband. His constant nonsense is too much for me. He has been retired now 2 years. We stay very busy so I have no idea how he can make time for the most stupid things.

 

[Nomad]

Newstart...It certainly is a positive that your adult daughter is not having those deep setbacks like she had previously. And it sounds like a potential positive that she can live rent free in three year's time....I'm assuming she would be willing and able to pay any costs like electricity?

Our daughter has found her bio family and many are bipolar. On I think her first visit, she got into a terrible argument with one of the older male family members. Both seemed irrational. I guess I blame her slightly more because she is younger and was a guest in their home. But, fairly soon, they forgave each other and life moved on. I definitely got a vibe that this family has often done that...although there was one family member they deemed to be so toxic, that they separated from them. Actually, this is an important point...one family member that no one could cope with any longer. Too many very terrible things and family members both bipolar and not...well, they called it quits with this particular person.

Bottom line, I think you might consider at least short term therapy....if you aren't currently going...as I know most of us have gone. Your husband should go to therapy and you might both together consider short term marriage/couples therapy. Yes, that's a lot. Your husband in particular, sounds like he needs A LOT of help. Perhaps he is semi accustomed to irrational/ mean behaviors from childhood and was brought up to quickly let it go. But, now he is dragging you into it AND it seems many if not MOST of these folks seem toxic. He certainly has no business deceiving you. At the very least BOUNDARIES should be set between him and his family. Perhaps long cooling off periods and certain absolutely NO's. And again, deceiving you is not ok.

And like the others said...perhaps he needs a medical work up. Does he also have a mood disorder? Might he need a tweak in medication?

I recall a self help type person, once said women often get short changed in divorces. Not sure why exactly...but it seemed accurate to me. I would fight to get this ironed out and if he is not in the least interested or cooperative...well that would be a big negative strike in my book. But consider fighting and pushing hard to set up hard fast rules so that you can move forward together reasonably, honestly and lovingly. Marriage / couples therapy perhaps for this very specific issue if nothing else.

And, figure out things you enjoy doing together. Having a daughter like you've had and all these various very difficult things going on is draining. Sometimes it's easy to forget to do "fun" things for ourselves or as a couple. I just saw your other posts where you said he keeps busy. Are you two doing fun things together at all? Like going to a movie? Just a thought.

I'm so sorry that you are going through this difficult anguish.

Sending good thoughts.

 

[newstart]

Nomad Thank you for your insight and note.
My husband has some Dr appointments set up. I pray that I can find a decent counselor because in the past I have experienced some rotten ones that did not help. I have been through many counselors with my daughter and the amount of money I have spent is unreal. I went to a self help bipolar support group which helped us the most. It was lead by a woman that was bipolar and she was great. Wish I could find a self help marriage group.
Since my husband grew up around mean bipolar people, he has way more tolerance to it than I have. I am done with them and God knows I have put in my time.
My husband and I did fun things together before this latest blow up. I really don't even want to go anywhere with him. His behavior actually makes me sink and the dread I feel with his family member coming into our home in March is huge. Plus him financing all this has Pis@ed me off no to end.
The amount of betrayal I feel is deep and I am still trying to carry on moving ahead doing what I feel is right. The family member that is coming has talked down to my husband and me several times and has a air of 'better than thou'. Why on earth is our family finances supporting this stupid stuff. Not only is it harming me spiritually but financially too. Nothing makes sense about this at all NOTHING.
Even though my daughter is doing better, it is better than years ago but it is not that good. She still lies and acts secretive. There is improvement here and there and then backwards two steps. I am very tired of all the unmedicated bipolar people that I have had to deal with I am tired and DONE. As I get older I just want peace, a quiet peaceful home and not anyone dragging unmedicated bipolar people into our home.
I never thought I would feel so lost, angry and defeated. It is not healthy to feel such strong negative emotions. The anguish that my husbands family has caused us has been discussed at length between my husband and me for years and my husband feels the same way as I do, or so he says. Was he lying to me? WTH.

 

[Copabanana]

Hi newstart
I feel sad that you are going through this and feel alone. You're not.

First, Why not tell your husband he needs to cancel the invitation to this family member he made unilaterally?

Second, about psychotherapy. If you have Medicare psychotherapy will be free. I have a psychologist whom I see by Telemed. It works great. He is located a few hours away because there are few competent therapists where I live. He is tremendously competent. You would be able to work with any licensed therapist in your state. I would prefer a psychologist, but that's me.

in the past I have experienced some rotten ones that did not help. I

I know how you feel. It may take having a visit with a dozen people until you find a fit. (I am assuming you're 65 or older.)
I get tremendous support from psychotherapy. I also do spiritual counseling which I find just as helpful. Honestly, I stopped going to psychotherapy because I was wounded by one experience. I wish I had been thicker-skinned. I missed out.

I am very much like you. My impulse is to retreat when I am wounded. That is not always the best course. I think Nomad gave you very excellent counsel. Love, Copa

 

[Crayola14]

If those people are coming to visit, you could invent a reason to go visit extended family in another area far away. I would make myself scarce. Tell them you’re going on a yoga retreat with a friend. Stay in a hotel during the time they are in your home. If your husband insists on hosting them and won’t reconsider, you don’t have to be part of it.