Mom--Did the psychiatrist act like it was all your fault?

[maxeygirls]

It has happened to me as well, and at Resnick at UCLA! Its sad on two levels, one is that any doctor doesnt take us seriously and our difficult children suffer while we have to prove the truth and on another level its sad that some parents of PCs have tried so hard to make their children into difficult children either to sedate them (which seems to be what they think we do) or to get attention for themselves.
Its just a sad world when even doctors have to doubt their patients.

 

[Star*]

Daisyface,

I ASK this because after ALL the years of going into the therapist, psychologists, psychiatrist, caseworkers, program directors, foster parents, therapeutic foster parents MLSW's, trained residential treatment workers, licensed mental health workers offices - it finally dawned on me one day that just because they had a diploma it didn't make them understand my life, my child, our unique set of circumstances. What it did give them was text book scenarios and text book solutions to real life problems that they themselves were not living with every day. Sort of like pick up round, blue block. Remember round blue block from labs? Round blue block goes in round blue hole.

Well our kids are not round, blue block kind of kids. So when they don't "fit" the criteria, the next level of reasoning for most of these text book graduates in my humble opinion is to go down the flow chart. You can almost hear them thinking. Okay, round blue peg did not fit into round blue hole when I administered first line of reasonable suggestive therapy it didn't work, now what? How could that not have worked. It worked in role playing. It should have worked here. The parents must be doing something wrong.

Oddly enough they're quite content to basket B everything that doesn't work with little attempt after that unless you get a really good therapist that enjoys a challenge and really knows his stuff. I believe this is also LARGELY the reason you hear a defeatist attitude with most people with regards to therapy. "It didn't work for us, I didn't get much out of it." I'd beg to differ because we had scads of the didn't work for us, didn't get a single thing out of it kind - and kept going until we found a man that literally was superior in wits to Dude. Harder than it sounds. But the kid is so brilliant, the others were outmatched in under 15 minutes.

For example: One wrap service therapist came to our house. Dude was about 11 I was at my end. I had kicked the wall to avoid hurting Dude after he had shot an arrow at me with a bow. Nothing to be proud of I had kicked through 2 solid walls. We had it patched by the time this guy got there 2 weeks later, but the minute he walked in? He barked orders at Dude. "YOU WILL sit here and speak to me." UGH...really? "You WILL NOT, this and you will NOT that." Well I can't repeat the language that Dude threw back at him here, but it wasn't pleasant. Then he wanted to see Dudes bedroom. He asked if Dude had done the damages. I said ashamed that I had. HE was on his way out the door to call DSS. OMG...WTH?

Like nothing else had mattered he had nothing else to report, nothing to report on himself, but found that something to report. That I couldn't contain my anger. OMG I was in therapy, I lived with a kid that was making me nuts. Spend a day here, get me some respite. Nope - calling DSS. Fine get out of my house, you're no help. What kind of counselor are you? He admitted he only became a counselor because he flunked out of medication school. THEN....sat at my dining room table and told me and DF HIS sad little story for 2 hours. . At the end of his woeful tale? He forgot to call DSS, but said he felt better.

After that? Every time he'd come? We'd talk about HIM. I had to keep him on because without using WRAP services? I couldn't get Residential Treatment Center (RTC) services. At Christmas time - we drove around looking at Christmas lights, got a doughnut and hot chocolate. So tell ME again how this guy was helping ANYONE? I heard all about HIS problems. See?

I could go on and ON.....about how whacked the system is. How if you sit and listen in the Mental Health offices you can hear more stuff about your therapists life than you care to hear. How miserable most of them are. How each of them get burnt out, how most of them see a therapist. I asked our therapist who HE saw. He told us. He said straight up - No way you can do what he does day in and day out and not have a someone to dump on and still be professional in your job. NO WAY.

So the next time your therapist wants to point fingers....? Just smile and know she's just following a certain type of therapy =text book style, depending on where she went to school, and if you find out where she got her education? You can call and ASK what kind of psychology they teach in their PhD program, provided she is a PhD, if she's a MLSW - you can get that info. too. That way you can get a feel for where she's coming from.

Certain types of therapy are just unnerving to us. The kind where the guy says "AND HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?" (it has a name) I dislike it very much and will get up and leave....cold. The kind I like? Where you listen to me, I condense, you let me know you heard MY problems....then you offer solutions for me to work on during the coming week....I come back, you ask me how it went...I tell you; we review.....then I tell you about my week again. REpeat.

Other than that? It didn't work for us.

Hope this helps shed some light on bad therapy.....because it exists....oh boy does it exist. Oh and by the way....OUR therapist told everyone that was involved with Dude "There is NO WAY I would spend a single night in that house under that roof with Dude living there." in writing. Hows THAT for professional opinion? THATS the kind of doctor you need too.

Hugs - STar

 

[DDD]

I have a slightly different take on this. Personally when I was a young Mother of toddler difficult child I sought out the head of a University psychiatric. Dept
for analysis. My then husband attended as well. In a round about way I was seen as the problem. In retrospect it made sense. I was completely frazzled from the years of sleeplessness and stress. difficult child's behaviors were
exhausting. No wonder he thought I had issues. I did! I was way in over my head with three preschoolers. Truly I was desperate for help.

Two or three years later, thank God, I found help and my life became bearable. Without that psychiatrist's help I have no idea how we all would have come out of it (minus Ex, of course).

My difficult child (often referred to as GFGmom) has given birth to three children.
Her oldest and she lived with us until he was four. His ADHD became apparent once he entered school. She had difficult child and raised him mostly by herself in the early years. He is ADHD and Aspergers. Life at her house
was and still is chaotic. There is no structure, no schedule, no consistency and her method of discipline is yelling/spanking/threatening.
During the years he lived with us he chilled. He had his medications regularly, his meals regularly, his clothes laid out, consistent rules etc. He finally began to function within acceptable boundaries. Her youngest is a pretty little girl who is a mess. She and her Mom scream vulgarities at each other
and GFGmom "let's her do her thing because it's easier".

So....I can see where analyzing the Mother's thoughts and behaviors can lead to assumptions that the child is reflecting what happens at home.
Even the television program "Super Nanny" shows that some difficult child's are homebred. Back in the day people would say "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree". Sometimes that is true. on the other hand professional help is needed for those of us with true difficult child's and a compassionate, well experienced psychiatrist can make all the difference. DDD

 

[DaisyFace]

Star--

"And how do you feel about that?"--O that kind of therapy is the worst!!!

In fact, there is a computer program that will do that for you. You type in your problem, it asks you why you feel that way. Then it will ask what you think you can do about it. And how do you feel about THAT?

 

[flutterby96]

wow... it's funny (funny, ironic not funny, amusing) that you should bring this up because I was just talking to a friend about this very thing.

From early on, I know something wasn't "normal" with Tuna. But, I kept on reading my parenting books, listening to my parenting tapes, and doing everything a good little Christian mommy is supposed to do. But, it wasn't working. I'd talk to the pediatrician about it, and he'd just say "it's normal, I guess you have a strong willed child." So, I was left to believe that it was all my fault, my parenting, my issues. I've struggled with depression my whole life, so at one point I did think that it was just me.

But, other people started to see what we were seeing at home and, when she started school she couldn't cope. I was so thankful for a diagnosis... for someone to tell me it wasn't my fault, it wasn't my parenting, it wasn't all in my head. I know it sounds terrible, to wish for your child to have a mental illness, but it brought me so much relief. Until people questioned, doubted & outright said they didn't believe the diagnosis. Excuse me, what?!?!?!

It saddens me how much stigma there is still attached to mental illness and other disorders. But, I try to remember that we have it so much better than even my parents' generation. When my sis was a kid, it was awful!! She didn't get diagnosis BiPolar (BP) til after a 911 call landed her in an IP treatment center for a week. She went her whole childhood with-o treatment, and my parents had no support from the medical community. So, as much as those judgmental and/or incompetent providers frustrate me, I try to be thankful that I live in a time & place where treatment is available. (-:

 

[Farmwife]

I'll be the first to admit I am a complete basket case, that's on a good day.

Still doesn't negate difficult child's issues now does it?

I have the same issue with therpay as Star. I often run into professionals who are only marginally experienced though their paperwork and ego state otherwise.

There is a very distinct difference between serious mental illness and people who fall into the "depressed soccer mom, bratty teen, wandering husband or mid life crisis" set. Throwing a couple prozac at someone who gets a little down about life is not at all like dealing with someone who has some serious chemical and emotional crossed wires.

I have been through the system enough times for myself, ex husband and difficult child, and worked at a group home for some very mentally ill adults...the kind hollywood turns into stereotypes for scenes in an asylum. 95% of the time I have seen the "magic tricks" so they don't work on me. I am capable of self analysis. I also spent several years in the back of all my Dad's grad school classes before I hit elementary school age. (colleges were cool in the 70's) Long story short I told my parents they couldn't spank me because it would damage my psyche when I was 4.

Nope, mental health care professionals hate me and think I am a crack pot because I feel they are ineffective. I'm not willing to do therapy and think I am smarter than they are so I clearly have major issues. It irritates me when I know exactly where they are leading like a terrible movie and guessing the plot before it ever happens. Sort of takes the personal "aha" moment of getting your head shrunk when you think...well heck I knew that already.

I'm not depressed dangit. I'm not even bi polar. I'm moody okay? I'm difficult because I am spoiled, blame my parents and husband for that. I'm used to getting my way, what of it?

I'm also knee deep in a spiritual and existential crisis. I am questioning existance and the precepts by which society is bound. I am an eager non conformist because I like negative attention and need distinct personal autonomy. I follow rules out of personal honor not obligation but still despise authority and everything it represents.

Clearly I am either a hypochondriac or a cross of ODD, narcisist with a dash of PTSD and who knows what else. It sure isn't bi polar though.

Shows you how much they know. lol



Long story short, I maybe shouldn't have gotten mad at the DCFS worker last night even though she is pig headed and ignorant. That just validates that difficult child is normal and I imagine his issues.

GREAT, just what I needed.

 

[Marguerite]

Oh, Farmwife, I'm on your wavelength!

difficult child 3 is in therapy of sorts at the moment and it does seem to be helping. I'm all for CBT - I spent some time as a subject of this before difficult child 3 was born as part of a research project. I must have driven the researchers mad - after each week's group session (conducted by an inept amateur) I critiqued it and sent the critique to the head researcher. I remember at one session we were asked to count how many breaths per minutes - I counted 6 for me. The expectation of the therapist had been that we were all over-breathing. And we clearly weren't. Of course, merely being asked to count your own breaths will skew the results because it makes you conscious of your own breathing. But my medical condition (and that of the others in the room - similar condition) "rewards" your body for inactivity. I was at a conference some years before that, when a speaker looked around the room and said, "I've never seen a room full of people so interested - and yet so still." So when sitting quietly, we did more than just sit, we would go almost into instant meditative state and slow ALL activity, including breathing.

Also as part of my experience in working with people with a similar disability, I did a formal telephone counselling course. I had been counselling people over the phone for several years before that and was horrified to find some of my best techniques being denounced as bad or ineffective. I made the conscious decision to keep breaking the rules. Over time I recognised that some of my methods were not good across the board; I used to divulge a little about myself, for example, (the "me, too", seemed to help people who had been feeling extremely isolated) which I know did help at times. However, there were other times when I had given out enough information for a client to track me down, and I was finding myself getting approached in public by clients who shouldn't have known how to find me.

Star, I remember absolutely LOATHING the "and how do you feel about this?" But even more than that, I really hated the "reflection" method of communicating. I have myself rung counselling services (trained under the same system) and when I begin to experience them reflecting, I call them on it and say, "Stop. Do not use that on me. It breeds resentment, it seems patronising, it is ineffective and hurtful. Cut it out."

Reflection is where the therapist merely repeats the gist of what the person has said. It's supposed to make the client feel "heard".
It goes like this -

Client: My husband comes home drunk and beats me.
Therapist: Your husband comes home and beats you.

What (according to the textbook) is supposed to happen, is the client at some point says, "Wow, you seem to really be hearing me and understand what I'm telling you!"

What I found happens in reality, is the client eventually says in frustration, "Will you stop flamin' well repeating everything I say!"

The day we had to study this, I spent a lot of time in the corner (metaphorically). The trainer knew I was breaking the rules; but she also knew I was helping people, I got good feedback.

I think the reason they think this works is because clients don't hang around to put up with it. They end up saying, "I feel a lot better now. Goodbye!" and hanging up.

That was another thing - I hated referring to people as "clients" in this situation. They were callers. Period.

And the "how do you feel about that?" does have its uses, but the therapist needs to really THINK before saying it, not to simply trot it out when they can't think of anything else to say.

Doing the course taught me a great deal about why therapists do/say what they do. We were told we were not to tell people what to do, not even advise them what to do. People had to work it out for themselves. I remember saying, "If people could work it out for themselves, why would they need to call us?"

I developed my own method - I would listen to the problem, I would then try to listen deeper to what might lie behind the problem. I would then (sometimes) ask the person what they would like to see come out of the situation. Sometimes (often) the person couldn't see the wood for the trees (which is why they had rung) and needed some suggestions, posed as "How would you feel about...?" I made sure I laid out a range of suggestions and as far as possible I tried to elicit responses from the caller too, so they had ownership of at least some of the ideas. I then pointed out that choices needed to be made and it didn't matter where the ideas had come from - I was a tool, like a screwdriver in the tool kit. The person using the screwdriver was the person doing the work. They had to choose a course of action and follow it. Not choosing was itself making a choice for inaction and still needed to be owned. Generally, though, people were happy to have some sense of direction. Before terminating the call we were recommended to get the caller to self-assess how they felt at that point, compared to when they had rung. Did they now feel that they were back in the driver's seat? "Are you OK with things now?" was the fairly universal question we were encouraged to ask. I would often just listen to hear it. Sometimes if I felt the person wasn't fully aware of their own emotions, then I might touch base and confirm.
An interesting aspect of this, was how to deal with suicidal callers. By the time we studied this I had already had several of these and had developed my own techniques which I shared with the class. I did learn a few more things in this, but it was a challenging area - this condition does cause depression, plus people who are chronically ill get very lonely and just want it all to stop. We were taught that to avoid talking about suicide was NOT the way to go; and we found this ourselves. Talking about it did NOT put the idea in people's heads. It often allowed them to talk, where previously they had been quietly planning an exit and could well have gone on to make an attempt after the call, if we hadn't mentioned it and thereby allowed them to talk.

Sometimes answering "How do you feel about this?" can be helpful. But too many therapists just toss this out without thinking about it, it has become too automatic. And a client with a fraction of functioning brain can recognise this and frankly, it smacks of carelessness, of not giving a hoot really for the client because therapist is on automatic pilot. Therefore over-use is disrespectful and unprofessional.

But don't react negatively every time you hear it. It does serve a purpose, if used appropriately. We do need to be able to own how we feel about something, and too often we've pushed aside our awareness of our own feelings.

But beyond that - let's just get on with solving the problem, hey?

Marg

 

[flutterby]

The thing is...even if the mom (why is it never the dad, by the way????) is mentally ill enough to be "making up" symptoms/disorders in their child, don't you think that child probably needs help anyway?

There are clearly cases where the problems of the child is a direct result of parenting. However, that doesn't dismiss that the child has issues that need to be addressed. Maybe not with medications, but at least with therapy.

But, saying that 90% of the time it's the mom? No way. Nuh uh. That's a gross generalization and I would run from that psychiatrist - even if he doesn't believe you're in that "90%". Especially when you consider that only 1-2% of the population has Borderline (BPD).

And to be blunt, the fact that this psychiatrist has you doing behavior charts for a teenager who has run away, skipped school, has promiscuous sex, has cried wolf with abuse, and is cutting herself has me wondering if he really doesn't think you're in that "90%". *I* know you're not. But, I'm not the one dispensing treatment.

I did everything a good little non-Christian (which, by the way, does not negate my ability to parent and love my child) mommy would do and we still are at where we are today.