newbie seeking advice on dealing with sons behaviors

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by freakchick39, Dec 14, 2013.

  1. freakchick39

    freakchick39 New Member

    i am a single mother , well i have a long term boyfriend but he doesnt interact much with my son because of his issues, anyway.. my son is 18. he was a phenomenal baby up till 4 when he was diagnosed with adhd. then at 9 diagnosed with biploar, and at 15 ODD. I guess my biggest problems are his attitude he is always angry and complaining and swearing under his breath , i mean even in the shower i can hear him complaining .. he stomps around , he slams doors and objects and he does this till he gets what he wants which brings me to the next problem and that is he is doing absolutely nothing with his life except looking for and smoking pot. he is very verbally abusive with me as he is always yelling at me when i try to talk to him, like im stupid, and he is ALWAYS right no matter how wrong he really is, and if i google something we are discussing simply so hes not repeating the same stuff to others and looking foolish, i want him informed.. he will get angry and tell me im doing it cause i love to prove him wrong.. i try and have tried over the years many different things and methods of behavioral modification. .. ie ) i tried getting medications for him, but hes always refused to take them and i wasnt able to shove them down his throat.. i have taken a couple parenting classes, i went to a support group so long that eventually ended up running the group myself. i did volunteer work with a parent to parent network for parents of newly diagnosed kids, for 5 years. i helped a lot of families with their children but was never able to help my own. we went to counseling and he refused to talk , ever so they always kicked him out.... and so on. i was always very active in advocating in school, but he ended up dropping out a 16 and still has not gone for his ged. he was taking classes and i was so proud cause he was actually doing it, but he stopped going. i have repeatedly used my own life as an example, as i am on SSI and dropped out of college and am completely broke and constantly struggling. i told him and asked him did he want the life we have now constantly wondering where our next meal will come from, and he says no, but yet he will do nothing to advance or even begin to advance in his life. my family back home thinks i should pack a bag for him and kick him out. i just cant bring myself to do that. he is only 18, he is special needs, and he is not as mature as he should be for an 18 year old boy.. i dont know what to do, i am crying id say at least 5 days a week, just when he gets out of bed it starts and i know it wont end tilll one of us goes to sleep. he has a puppy and is constantly screaming at her, he recently was in his room walking with her in his arms, and he fell on her and broke her leg. this is the story he tells me, and i want to and mostly do believe what he says is how it happened, i shudder to think it possible that he did it intentionally. and i did ask him a couple times telling him its okay to be open and honest with me ( as its always been) and he insists and begs me to believe he is telling the truth, but he is so mean to her, he yells at her and he has in the past smacked her ( i told him after her leg got broken if he touched her ever again id beat his butt).... anyway, this is most of the things i am going through with him, no matter how hard i try and how much love i give him he is so mean and hurtful... i dont know what to do or how to set him on the right path behaviorally..
    sorry so long, please offer some comments and advice on what some of you have done for your children and what their diagnoses are?
    thank you
  2. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    Welcome to the site, Freakchick39. I know how painful this time is for you, and I am so glad you found us. As you post your stories and listen and respond to ours, you will find your way, too.

    In that you have found and even, led groups for other parents, it sounds like you are a dedicated, loving mom who is pretty savvy about what is out there and available for you and your son. If you haven't already, I think you need to seek out those kinds of resources for yourself, now. Raising kids like ours is a thankless, draining, seemingly endless thing of so little joy. Where other parents can work hard and see something so good come to fruition, parents of really troubled kids work even harder, and see nothing in return. The child is still troubled, the problems are still insurmountable, we are still the responsible adult in the equation, we are still expected to pull a miracle out of an empty hat. It is so hard to regain a healthy sense of self, so hard to believe, to hope that the next day will be better.

    I know that is not what you want to hear, Freakchick. I didn't want that, either. I wanted to know how to have what I see all the other parents having ~ educated, respectful, happy kids who love me to distraction and are doing well in the world. I don't have that, Freakchick. But what I do have is this site, where I am learning a way to survive those losses and reclaim the right to my own life.

    For me, that is what my journey has been. Learning how to know when I have done all I can for my kids, learning how to focus on and take care of myself, learning to establish boundaries, learning to be grateful for my own life, learning to be truly grateful for all that I still have. (I wanted to say? "Grateful for whatever is left, though it doesn't look like much from here, and is the polar opposite of what I wanted and worked so hard for. It is what it is and if I want to get through this, I have to choose who and how I am going to be from here on in.")

    I am trying to be supportive here, so I won't say that.


    Actually, that was an attempt at humor. It may have fallen flat. I am at that part of my journey where I am acknowledging so much of the anger I have been stuffing for all these years. It comes out in the strangest ways, and leaves me feeling so deflated, afterwords. It would have been better for me, and maybe, better for my kids, too, if I had learned that skillset we call "detachment" sooner. I was so focused on the kids....

    You are still young enough to do that, Freakchick.

    I wasted so many of the years of my life focused on grief and pain and loss and frustration. I look back on it now...too late to change that. Too late to change anything, really. If I had known back then that, no matter what I did, it was going to turn out this way?

    I probably still would have done what I did. We do our best, always, right?


    Here are some things I've found helpful, Freakchick. Know that I wish you well, that I am sending you strength and a sense of peace and certainty, this morning. I am sorry this is happening to you, and to your son. It is so unfair, isn't it.

    Others of us, hopefully with a more cheerful outlook than I have been able to manage this morning, will be along shortly.

    NAMI is a nation-wide organization offering support for the families of those experiencing mental health issues. Registration is free. NAMI offers weekly support groups for parents, and even, classes in understanding how to cope with living with a troubled child in your life. There are also support groups available for the troubled person himself. There are Parent to Parent classes offered there. They are free, and I keep meaning to take them. We go back and forth with the seasons, and I am just missing the deadlines every time.

    You might call Social Services or your local crisis center to learn whether there is any help for your son now, as an adult. Maybe a Group Home?

    The Serenity Prayer. A wise someone here on the site posted this to me once, and told me to read and reread it until I got it. Even if you think you know it, Freakchick, read and reread it, this morning. You will find a measure of comfort, there. Repeat it in the night, when you wake up and cannot sleep. There is something in the rhythmic repetition of those words that is soothing, that breaks that chain of worry and allows us to rest.

    God, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    The Courage to change the things I can,
    And the Wisdom to know the difference.

  3. freakchick39

    freakchick39 New Member

    oh dear cedar,thank you for your reply..god yes do I ever know the feeling of longing to have a 'normal" child. not only for my relief and having to deal with the outside world and their nasty stares and all knowing advise on what I should be doing....but for my son and his future because I know too well that he will live with the hand he was dealt the rest of his life and I so wish I could spare him the agony and pain hes already enduring. it hurts so bad to hear my 18 yr old boy sat he wants to die and spends most every day locked in his bedroom alone in misery and sadness and I stand idly by not being able to help him . I also have bipolar as well as ptsd and I know how he feels and all im able to tell him is that I do understand and im sorry but it probably wont get better. Ive tried to convince him in many ways using different analogies that he needs to at least try a few different medications in hopes of eleviating some of the symptoms but he wont. he just wants to do it on his own. we moved from Ny to Az about 7 years ago. in NY I knew all the resources available and utilized most of them, but the resources here in Az are scarce. I am sure he wouldnt participate in any if I did find some to include him in. I looked at nami site here and immediately saw some classes that looked interesting and perhaps informative but unfortunately I had a bad car accident a year ago in which I totaled my truck and I was left badly injured and am barely able to walk so busses arent an option and I have no family or friends here to ask for rides. so im afraid my resources are limited to the internet. im glad I found this site and people who have lived the same situations, and can hopefully advise me on some strategies they used and how they coped. I think its a different ball game now that hes an adult and its a game im lost in. when he was younger often I had to do full body restraints on him and he would scream and slam his head into my chest repeatedly until he passed out or mellowed from exhaustion. I cant do that any more..hes 6'2" . I used to reward good behavior with paper certificates of acheivement cause oddly he preferred them over toys or treats...I doubt hed like them now. I did bottle it up like you for all these years and im now very tired. I broke down a few weeks ago and he came to hug me and say "im sorry mom its just..." and I said to him, no, you dont understand .every single day for 14 yrs (since age 4) its always been for one reason / excuse or another. never a break. always angry. im tired. and for a second I thought I might have gotten through but the next day it was the same thing all over again. many horrible things that even I, as a relatively bad child, never said or did to my example...he was 15 and in the midst of one of his more severe episodes he said to me," im gonna kick you so many times between the legs youll never have kids again" then remembered I already cant, told me I was a useless woman. what kind of kid could say that to the woman who gave him life and exhausted her own in efforts to fix his?
  4. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

  5. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Welcome Freakchick39. I am so sorry you find your self in the situation with your son. You've stumbled in to a group of weary but dedicated parents who've been in similar shoes. Scent of Cedar has given you excellent advice and resources.

    You may want to read the article at the bottom of my post here on detachment. I think the most important thing for any of us here to remember is that we FIRST have to take care of US. It is easy and unfortunate that after many years of dealing with our troubled kids, we lose sight of what our needs are and how to take care of ourselves. If you can't make it to a NAMI class or get out to go to therapy or some kind of supportive atmosphere like a 12 step group or family anonymous or a parent group then in my opinion, you will need to develop a very clear set of ways to be nurturing, kind, supportive and loving to YOU. In addition to that, because your son won't get any help for himself at all, it puts you in a pretty difficult spot. You either continue as you are, or you have to take some drastic steps.

    NAMI can usually assist in getting the kids on SSI and gather resources for the adult kids while they support the parents. I'm not clear you can do this without your sons involvement, is there some way you can convince him of the necessity for him to receive some benefits so that the burden of his support is not totally on you? Social Services can do this too, but NAMI has the resources to help with kids who have the mental illness diagnosis.

    If your son outright refuses any and all help then in the big picture, your choices are limited. As an adult he can make whatever choices he likes regardless of how it may harm and deplete you. The only real choice you end up with is how you are going to respond to him. You're in a hard place. For all of us, the most difficult thing we've had to do is to learn how to detach from our kids and their choices. I'm not sure the appropriate choice for you at this point is to ask your son to leave, however, you do need to set some strict boundaries that have consequences, he cannot continue treating you with disrespect and smoking pot in your home.

    Often in order for us to change, we need an outside professional, or someone outside of the circumstances to keep telling us the truth and guiding us to new behaviors which can lead to real change. If you have a deep commitment to change this situation, perhaps with online support you can make choices which will help's just going to be challenging if you can't get out of the house and your resources are limited. Your son is in essence holding you hostage with his behaviors and over time that just becomes your normal. You have to step out of that place to see it for what it is and make changes. What that entails is boundaries and consequences. Without any commitment on his part to change, all of the changing is going to have to come from you. Most of us need some professional support to make those changes because it is so hard on us, so I am not sure how to support you to make those changes if you can't get out of the house.

    Keep posting, that helps us a lot. Perhaps over time as you tell us your story, possible resources will emerge that will point you in a healthier direction and give you the support necessary to stop enabling your son and start living a healthier lifestyle which is kind and comfortable for you. I am sorry you are in this place, you deserve to have a peaceful and loving atmosphere in your home. Sending you good thoughts..........
  6. freakchick39

    freakchick39 New Member

    thank you recovering... I did read the article in your signature ...I will have to read it again it was a lot to take in and retain. my son does receive ssi. it was another tough battle I waged for both our benefits long ago. I also read an article somewhere else in here on odd and coping with it and did see a couple different steps I havent taken yet and am a little more informed about odd and how to react to a child with it.. or I should say adult. I guess what I struggle with is definitely setting boundries. I am so tired of this life I tend to just give up and let him do or say what he wants so I can avoid a big fight . I think that the crying is useless cause he just doesnt seem to care. but sometimes I just cant stop the flood. also I am really unsure of what kind of concequences I can implement at 18 ? what is there? and typically with odd adhd and bipolar ( you may or may not know ) if I were to start implementing and sticking to boundries and concequences would he most likely resort to physical violence again? I guess in essence I am pretty much in fear of him. not so much that he will hurt me. I think on some level because of a very few times he has hit me in the past , he knows that undoubtedly I will kick his a** and if he called the cops , as once before , theyd more than likely congradulate me and leave....but more so destruction of property...this is well used to be common but has dramatically diminished. do you think he wi start destroying the apt and his and my belongings again? maybe if the puppy happens to be In his way, hurt her?..... anyway if you have suggestions on concequences..I have some boundries already in mind id like to start with. ooh and also should I only assert one or two at a time like when he was little or just lay it all out
  7. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I don't know for sure how you should handle all of this. Because you are alone, without support and living with an unstable 6'2 male, it is a dicey situation for sure. Perhaps the first step would be for you to really think through what it is you want, what you can live with and what you can't and what is a deal breaker. I would think hurting you is a deal breaker along with destruction of furniture. The rest is respect for you, never hurting the dog, respect for your belongings, a job to help pay for your home and food, chores if there is no job, no smoking pot in the house, those kinds of things. Make a list, what you want, what you are willing to deal with, what you do not want, what you are not willing to put up with.

    Look into what the eviction laws in your state are. They vary in all states even if it is your son you are evicting you may have to give notice. Find out about restraining orders and what that entails in your state. Look into the legal ramifications of possession of pot. When you finish figuring out all of that, make a plan and write a contract. There are certain lines he cannot cross, like hitting you, hurting the dog, destroying property and using drugs in your home. Explain to him that you have looked into eviction and if he crosses those severe lines, eviction is the consequence. Look into shelters in your area. Let him know that the shelter is the next step once he crosses those lines. But have all your ducks in order so you know EXACTLY what you are talking about. You need a plan of action.

    The thing with consequences is that you HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH. Or they are meaningless and in fact give more power to the offender if you don't follow through.

    The next part of your list should include what you want and what you do not want, he needs a job. He will have to go out every day for a certain amount of time each day in the pursuit of a job. Etc. Do you want him to help around the house? Then include that. You have to figure out what YOU want, not what you can put up with with his behaviors, that's where you are now.

    This is going to be a process for you because you and he are in an unhealthy dynamic. The power however is all yours, but only if you stop enabling him and provide consequences. I do believe people can be trained into healthier behavior but the training is rigorous on US. You giving in because it's easier is certainly understandable, we all do that to some degree, but that has to stop in order for change to happen and you have to develop some real strength, courage and commitment to make the necessary changes.

    I applaud you for your desire to change, it's difficult, but you can do it if you make it clear first to yourself and then to him, what you are NOT willing to put up with. Those boundaries are crucial.
  8. freakchick39

    freakchick39 New Member

    I know that you are right on so many levels and I do know that my enabling him and not following through has and will continue to cripple him and hurt him in the long run. but I cant for the life of me, imagine putting him out or using legal recourse against him. maybe its just excuses but he is my baby. and the love I have for him is overwhelming . he was a gift that I was told I could never have. I was diagnosed with cervical cancer at 15 and by 17 so much of my cervix was gone the doctor said now or never and theres no promise youll carry full term..well I had him full term and healthy, and when he was born the cancer went away for 5 years. another thing I think brings these tears when I even think of putting him out, is that when I was 16 my mother told me she was finished being a mother, packed her stuff and moved to florida. I have been on my own since then. I just dont know that I can do that to him . I am all he has. there has to be something else I can do first. he doesnt even understand the concept of money. he thinks the 120 I give him out of his check once the bills are paid each month , hes rich. he also doesnt understand despite my telling him , that he could get a studio apt and be able to pay electric ,if he chose to move out and take his check each month. and I know if he were to try, he would fail miserably. he would be on the streets and on the phone to me within 2 months please dont take my whining and hesitancy as being unappreciative of and unwilling to follow good advice, I really do want the advice and the change but there has to be something less permenant and severe that I can start with and build on. i just dont know what. he has such low self esteem and has been kicked to the curb so many times by his father I dont know that I can compound those feelings and leave him with no one. I do want him to be better and ill continue to read and post and update you guys as to status, but for now there has to be another way. thank you for taking the time and kindness to read and reply to me
  9. freakchick39

    freakchick39 New Member

    Well my son came home today . Give me hugs that he missed me and seemed genuinely happy to see me. By the time he got home already had a list boundaries and goals he needs to complete to start taking steps to better himself and take some responsibility. he needs to make a doctor appointment on his own to address insomnia hes had for a while. he needs to go get a picture ID so he can then find the next ged test and location and go take the test. also to clean and keep clean his room. I don't want to start with too much and be overwhelming . my lisf of boundries is kinda short but again dont want to pile on too much . I kinda mentioned a little about it but havent told him or shown him the list yet cause its chicken scratch has to be renwritten and then decide if im gonna read it to him or just give it to him . I mention that if its too much for him to respect me his animal and my few requests that we will need to discuss options for him moving out . that I wouldnt leave him high and dry and he will have his whole ssi check with him when he leaves. he said i dont know that he really is working on stoping behaviors. I told him I dont expect it over night but that there will be one concequence to start with , its the only thing I can think of that will affect him, and that is for every time he exibits a behvior on my list I will take $10 out of the money i give him each month and use it to make a purchase for the house. now I just need to go over it with him and actually do what ive set out to do. at this point the puppy peed in his bed and I heard him smack her 4 times and yell at her so she is in here with me. I told him I will find another home for her at the drop of a dime if he continues to abuse her.
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi there, hon. First of all, I want to congratulate Recovering Enabler, who I feel is absolutely one of our kindest and most articulate posters, on becoming a moderator. Such a great decision by the CD staff.

    Ok, now back to your son.

    It is very hard to have adult children like this. I have a 36 year old who has never been a nice kid. It took me a long time to become a mother too and he was also my precious baby who was a dream baby for 15 mo. until signs of his seemingly inherent meanness started to come out and then I just hoped it would be gone by adulthood. It didn't go away.

    Like your son, my son has mental illnesses. I'm sure he has some mood disorder and he has extremely bad anxiety disorder and panic attacks and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) that was so severe he had to drop out of college because all he did was count the words that his professors said. He was on SSD for a few years too. But, behind the sickness, was still a pretty mean person. And it wasn't because of his mood disorder. One can have a mood disorder, and still be nice. The very first thing I'd do is to rehome that dog. I'm an animal lover and your son is doing something that is a really big red flag for possible personality disorders...he is cruel to this poor innocent creature. Don't feel alone. I've seen my son toss a cat into the wall and kick the cat. Broke my heart. If he had been living with me, I would have thrown him out for that alone, but he has always managed to hold a job and have his own place (thank goodness. He could not live with me anymore).

    Your son reminds me a lot of my son. My son doesn't smoke pot, never has, but he drinks too much. I'd call him a functional alcoholic. I've never seen him within the past ten years when he doesn't have a beer in his hand. Now I don't see him that often, but...each time? This son has been given every chance to achieve in life including a God given high IQ and the ability to sleep through classes and still remember everything he heard. But his mental health issues took care of that. His nastiness doesn't help. He does not have a large network of friends.

    My son, while living with both me and later his father (we are divorced), has gotten extremely verbally aggressive with me and his father and has shoved his father and slapped me across the face once. He was a minor when he slapped me or he would have been gone then, but it would not have been easy because I loved him so much. I still do.

    I believe my son has narcissistic personality disorder on top his mood and anxiety problems. But no matter what labels he has, that does not give him the right to be cruel and dangerous to his family. He can't kick cats in front of me. In fact, I better not know about it. He can't be sexual even suggestively around his sister (long story...he has siblings and none of them can tolerate him for very good reasons). He can't swear at me non-stop, get into my space, scream in my face or put a hole in the wall. I was taught in therapy that even though he is not hitting me or actually sexually acting out on Sis, what he is doing is violence and scares people.

    My son has been in therapy since he was eight years old. Now he isn't because he says he can't afford it (he makes three times what we make) and we are just too poor to even consider sending him any money, not that we would.

    Every day I thank God for my three loving children. We adopted after I gave birth to 36, and the other kids are angels (not that they always were, but they are good kids now). They have loving hearts. 36 seems to be missing the empathy gene and the world revolves around him. He is 36 going on six at times, which is scary because he has 50% custody of his five year old son. So far he has been good to his son, but I'm not dumb. I know that he could turn on him when the kid gets older and maybe starts to assert himself.

    I have no answers for you. I think Recovering Enabler and Scent of Cedar gave you excellent advice. I just kind of wanted to say...hey, I understand. My son lives two states away from me right now and he can't leave because his son is there. Plus he is very phobic about driving. Because my son has been verbally aggressive, threatening to shoot me a few times, I am glad he can't travel and I won't go see him on my own (and nobody else wants to go with Do I think he could shoot me? I don't think he'd plan to kill anyone. But in a rage I'm not sure what he would do. He has never shot a gun. I'm glad he never got into guns, even hunting. He wouldn't be safe.

    Lots and lots of hugs and good wishes for your hurting mommy heart.
  11. freakchick39

    freakchick39 New Member

    thank you... I am sorry that you me or anyone really has to go through things like what seems to be the uniform behaviors of mental illness as a whole. I have worried and watched my son closely about possibly having more and worse diagnosis, symptoms of things more than hes already got. he used to be physically violent, not directly at me but with property and himself. hes not anymore . the most I have to worry about is slamming doors and making neighbors mad. and as far as our princess puppy goes (see my avatar) :) he isnt like , beating on her ...he is "spanking" her. but he does it because he thinks hes a know it all and that in order to train a pittbull you have to exert and prove dominance. (those are his words) but I will not allow him to discipline her using violence no matter how minor it is. I have been trying to drill into his head what he is doing to her in the long run and what to expect her to become if he continues . but as of this point she and her pen have been removed from his room all together and the only contact ive allowed him to have is to take her out because I am not able to walk up n down stairs without holding the railing and I almost fell down the stairs last time I took her out. I know that eventually when she is potty trained and listening a little better he will see i was right and he didnt need to touch her to train her. I am in love with the lil pup so giving her up isnt an option. also terrified if she would end up in worse hands. but I have put an end to that issue. my son and his behaviors are not only because of his illness and I am painfulky aware of this. a lot im shamed to admitt is my fault for allowing him to treat me this way for so many years and not putting an end to it when he was still impressionable to be able to. he doesnt act this way with other adults. well unless they are an authoritive figure. he goes to his friends and their parents praise him and how well mannered he is. its prettt much not till I walk in that the anger and ignorance starts.
  12. freakchick39

    freakchick39 New Member

    my cell phone is not cooperating. I cant type any more right now. I wil finish later when I can get on computer. I was almost done .darn.. well thank you again. I really appreciate the replies and encourage more. im not being completely hesitant to use the advise ..I did write up that contract enabler suggested. lol ♥
  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Freakchick, it's not your fault that your son treats you that way. Punishing my son never changed him. He just got sneakier. And when he is under stress, he is as nasty as is something he does not seem able to control, but it is plain scary. His outlook on life ("its other people's faults, never mine") is scary. NOTHING is his fault. He is never sorry because we made him do it, whatever it is. Kind of strange difficult child thinking. But it's up to us, once they are grown, whether or not we will or won't be abused in our own house.
    As for the dog, sounds like a sweetie. I love pitties! I can tell you are taking good care of him. I just wouldn't let Son ever be in charge of the puppy. I'd make him keep the puppy downstairs and never in his room, for the puppy's sake. You have no idea what he is doing to the poor pup when you can't see.
    I hope my son never gets a pet again. He only got the cat because his ex-wife brought it home without his permission. My son greatly dislikes animals, which I consider another red flag. I am not comfortable with people who don't like animals...maybe it's just a quirk I have.
  14. freakchick39

    freakchick39 New Member

    yea I completely understand what you mean about animals. I worry if my son had a kid if he would react that way when it wouldnt stop crying. believe me , the thought psychopath has crossed my mind and scared the s*** outta me , but he just doesnt fit enough of the diagnostic criteria. my son has good in him..under everything else. he will go out of his way to help an elderly person with their groceries just instinctively. and when he was in school even though he was incredibly hard to handle they put him in a lower grade class 1 or 2 hours a couple days a week because he helped and worked well with the kids that had severe learning disabilities.
    what i wanted to leave off with in that last post before my phone messed up, is that id be foolish to get too hopeful, and naive to think i might have really made some head way, after all the years of thinking this might finally be it... but , he was sleeping last night, and i was loud i guess and woke him up, normally it would be a swear a thon and stomping to the bathroom complaining under his breath, but instead he said hey mom could you please quiet down.. that kinda surprised me.. i am going to keep drilling into his head that i wont tolerate certian things, the major stuff.. i learned years ago to pick my battles.. and just hope that soon he wakes up and gets the picture. i did include in the boundries, goals and concequence list that if after some time he finds it too much to follow the short list ive compiled , to make my life less of a living hell, then we will need to discuss the options for him moving out. whether it be in with a roomie ( thatll never work) at a half way house, or in a studio apt of his own.. i told him i would make sure he was set up and then hed be on his own. he says he is worried about how i will survive with out his check ( i am disabled and can barely walk right now ) .. but i suspect its more that he is worried about how HE will survive on just one check alone, and without mama to do everything for him and be his emotional punching bag. he has done some really questionable things and said scary things over the years, but i know when it comes down to it, hes not evil. he has a good heart. he just doesnt know how to control his anger and his impulses. thank you for saying its not my fault, but i cant help but feel that if i had been more consistant in dealing out concequences and sticking to them, when he was little, then maybe he wouldnt know now that i am so easy to take advantage of. i cringe when i think of next month when i dont give him his whole 120 that he normally gets.. and well maybe i could just let him slide this once and not take that 10 away for this incident.. but i know in my heart that for his benefit , that i am crippling him by not following through, and i will do it.
    when can i post a signature with all my bio info in it like the others have? i looked for a link to "bio" cause i saw a different thread in which enabler told another newbie to go fill in her bio,. but there is no link for bio,. maybe that changed when the rest of the site changed the other day? I don't know...
    thank you :)
  15. helpangel

    helpangel Active Member

    If this post is all over the place I apologize, having a bit of an ADD moment myself (too many idea's at once)

    First and feel free to share this part with your son, ask him if when he was potty training how well he would have responded to being hit or scolded when ever he went somewhere other then in the toilet? He had gone in his diaper up till then but suddenly when he goes there he's being hit, can he imagine how confused his baby self would have been? Would he have learned how to use the potty or would he learn to fear whoever was hitting him?

    When that little puppy was still with it's mom life was good, he went potty wherever and his mom cleaned it up. Now he has no mom, no litter mates and is in the hands of 2 giants that it can't figure out what they want from him. All he knows is they aren't happy.

    I truly believe when training an animal if every time it potty's on the floor you whop it with a newspaper then throw it out the window eventually the animal will pee on the floor yelp like it's been hit and jump out the window. Because that's what you trained it to do... anyway how ever you need to twist this story to get thru to him he's doing it wrong and if continues is gonna ruin that dog do it.


    Part 2 to this post
    I noticed a lot of similarities to your situation with my own, though I have 3 "explosive kids" (that are now adults or real close) instead of one. My harsh reality is if I booted one of the girls out of here I would barely make rent and we couldn't afford utilities or food without the rent they pay me from their SSI. So a threat of "kicking them out" they know I can't enforce it, would do nothing but under mind me as the leader. They are also listed on the lease so landlord would have to legally evict that person. So kicking out is not an option - I had to figure out a way for this to not feel like a war zone all the time. I have a twisted version of PTSD (not post - cumulative or ongoing)and can't let myself get worked up to the point I snap and pose a danger to my kids.

    Our 1 basic house rule is "treat others the way you want them to treat you" broken down into 3 subcategories

    As common courtesy let someone know when you are leaving, when gonna be back - violators don't get yelled at but they come home to find out dinner was delicious but unfortunately gone (we didn't save you any thought you had dinner plans...)

    No verbal aggression - screaming , swearing at, name calling they get ignored, if I have to leave room I do - my response is no response also I have nothing to say to verbal bully until whoever they offended has been honestly apologized to.

    No physical aggression - assault is an automatic trip to jail or psychiatric hospital. (police choose which) no exceptions, destruction or disruption of property the guilty one has to make full restitution.

    I'm sure many here are shaking their heads thinking this "do nothing discipline" couldn't possibly work; it's the best thing I've come up with so far. It is based on the idea's in a couple of Amy Sutherlands books about training exotic animals. Pretty much reward behavior you like and ignore the ones you don't. I can imagine a trainer who smacks a tiger doesn't live very long.

    My son was diagnosis when 4yo, Angel diagnosis when she was 6yo and youngest has gotten services since 13 months. I don't think there is a parenting class out there I haven't completed -these kids whole life there were therapists coming in here with their proven DBT approved methods and sticker charts, rewards etc... I got injured many times, many therapists got injured and 2 that I know of switched careers and got out children's mental health after dealing with my kids.

    The point I'm trying to make is every family is different so there is no one proven "cookie cutter" approach to discipline, figuring out what fits your family is gonna take some thought & research; when you figure out how want to proceed remember consistency is very important and never make a consequence that you can't enforce.

    I hope some of this is helpful, use what you can and discard the rest... Nancy
  16. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

  17. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I don't think my son is antisocial personality disorder either. But I know he has some traits and he is more narcissistic...the world revolves around him and his needs.

    I won't say he has a good heart, but when he isn't overly agitated he can be fun, engaging, polite and very funny. His intelligence is obvious at that time. He truly does love his son with all his heart and has never even spanked him, per his ex. And his ex hates him and would have used this against him in their custody battle if she could have. But when he loses it, he loses it. It's scary. And it happens too often. And, in that impulsive, rageful state, I believe he COULD hurt somebody.

    Your son does sound like he has kindness in his heart, but his attitude toward you is terrible. And I don't believe it is your fault. Our kids are born with certain temperaments and being consistent doesn't change that. We can raise five kids and every single one, raised the same, will turn out differently. You don't mention his biological father or if there are difficult people in your son's family tree (genetically), but genetics is huge. There are other narcissistic people on my family tree and I have many mental health struggles myself. The difference between my son and I, other than I have almost TOO much empathy (I'm a real softie) is that I knew I was different and tried very hard all my life to get help and do well. That really helped me. It still does.

    Your son (and mine) need to one day wake up, realize what they are doing is unkind and work very hard at getting better. In my son's case, cutting out the alcohol would help. I think your son would probably do better without pot. No psychiatric medication will help either of them if the possible benefits of taking them are wiped out by the effects of the recreational drugs. Not only does my son drink every day, but his psychiatrist prescribed eight Xanax's a day!!!! I would not be able to drive, work, or keep my eyes open on that amount of Xanax. I don't know what his doctor was thinking nor do I know how much my son takes now, but it's a prescription. Boggles my mind. He was in an accident once and totaled his car. He hit a tree. Miraculously, he walked away from this accident, but it still scares me to think that it could happen again.

    Back to genetics and blame: Most adoptive parents, when they meet their children's birthparents for the first time (and it happens a lot these days) are shocked by how much their adopted children are like their birthparents who most of the kids have never even seen. Sometimes they even make gestures like one another and yet they have never seen one another. It's downright spooky. I'm guessing that somebody on your son's family tree had a personality similar to him, even if your son never knew the DNA relative who acted like him. You can not be blamed for that. I have always shaken my head over 36's behavior, but I never blamed myself. I never blamed my parents for my issues. I figured I was born that way.

    I actually think that how you handle your son now is important because not only does he need to get serious about facing his problems, but YOU are important important as HE is...and you need to take care of yourself. You deserve a good life free of stress in your own home. You deserve to be treated with respect and caring. Your son in my opinion needs to get into serious therapy and learn coping mechanisms to stop himself from his extremely poor impulse control and his anger issues. YOU can't help him. Only HE can help himself. And it takes hard work.

    Keep posting. Your son is still young. He may decide that he's tired of himself and decide to get serious about getting the help he needs. 36 always does much better when he is in therapy.
  18. freakchick39

    freakchick39 New Member

    yea, I don't know even know what to say right now.. i got on here, becuause i love him, and i want so bad for things to get better and to strengthen our relationship, and even though he wont do a bit of work ( he refuses to speak at counseling and wont take medications) .. i still do everything i can and read all the info i can get my hands on hoping i guess ill find that magic cure. . hes so mean. i cant open my mouth about anything without him getting pissed and complaining and saying i am ":censored2:ing" and blah blah blah... HE is so tired of this every day.. just got done arguing with him yet again, a minute ago. now i am drained, emotionally dead i feel, and who really cares if i read or come to this site to learn, or do anything at all for that matter because god its so clear nothing will help. i told him , yet again, that if he hates it so bad here he needs to move out. that he has enough money. now , for the first time ,he said hes been looking for a place. i said then fine.. you got 30 days to get out, hows that? he said, what are you my manager , i told him no but i am not gonna keep letting him treat me like sh** and live here as long as he wants. he said its me treating him that way... im tired. so tired. and then he complained to me that i dont need to be posting so many pictures of HIS puppy on facebook.. its HIS. yet it was me ALONE that just got back from the vet with her getting her cast changed. it was me emailing all the rescue groups and organizations till i found one to donate to her vet bill to get her fixed.. it is me that protects her from him.. im sorry, i am rambling now. im just so upset. and i want to cry, tears are welling up in my eyes,but im tired of crying , my boyfriends tired of me crying and my son just doesnt give two craps if i cry.
    as far as family traits, his dad i am told had adhd. other than that no significant illness in his family that i am aware of. it all comes from my family. i have bipolar, ptsd and get severely depressed and suicidal at times.. but no angry mean behavior.. i go sad, i go extra happy , i go sad , extra happy. my son goes sad, extra mean... bipolar and major depression are all throughout my family history. and i have a cousin with aspergers syndrome.
    k, well. thank u, again , all of you.. im going to go to bed.. its the only place i can be at peace , until he comes to wake me up for something stupid.
  19. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

  20. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Look, these kids, even as adults, knock us out. They are tiring; exhausting. You are not alone. What helps is not to try fixing him, but trying to help yourself have a good life in spite of your having a worrisome adult child. You can't change HIM, but you can change YOURSELF and your attitude toward his choices and your priorities in your life. You can start to take care of YOU and stop trying to take care of him. We call this emotional pulling away...detachment. I highly recommend reading a book that would be for YOU: "Co-Dependent No More by Melodie Beattie." You can get it on Amazon. I used to think it was my responsibility to take care of everyone else, even at a risk to myself. There are times that the perils of others made me feel suicidal because I felt so helpless and I tried so hard to fix them and nothing worked. I have learned a lot since then and I hope you can do the same.
    Your son is somebody you love very much, but you are not the cause of his problems and you can't fix him. Nobody can, not even the best intervention, until he is ready to admit he needs help. Until then, it is best for your own health, both physical and mental, if you move along with your life and enjoy yourself. Not saying it will happen overnight, but it can and should. For now, have you tried not engaging your son when he is verbally abusive? I certainly would not get out of bed to get him anything. He is old enough to dress himself (pick out his own clothes), wash them, make his own meals, clean his own room, etc. If he won't, I wouldn't do those simple things for him. You are his mother, not his slave. I say that because I felt like a slave to a few people at one time. Maybe you don't, so maybe I shouldn't have used that word, but I was relaying my own feelings.
    Hugs and know that we all care. A lot. Keep posting.