Our visit tonight...

[toughlovin]

Gosh it is amazing how they can twist things around in an argument!!! So we went to the family support group which was good. I did check on a couple of things, and if he leaves they do call the probation department asap and they also call the emergency contact which I hope is us!!

We then went to visit difficult child... at first he was friendly and then he asked if we had brought his "property" and I said no. He said he wanted us to bring it for staff to keep in their safe. I ended up arguing with him about it and he got on a very high horse about it was his property, not mine (one is an iphone his girlfriend gave him which is what he was arguing about) and his choice blah blah blah. He knows I dont want to give it to him because I am afraid he will leave....and the iphone will give him internet access so he could reach friends. It is interesting he made all about "ethics" which is so laughable because of course he has no ethics regarding his own behavior but he knows I am very ethical and so that is where he is trying to get to me. Anyway I finally said he would need to talk to staff and I would need to talk to staff... so he went and found someone and of course asked the question the way he wanted it asked. It was a fairly new person who after hearing us argue and him getting very disrespectful, said she thought the visit should end. So he calmed down but would not stop the argument. She came out again and finally told us the visit needed to end and I said I agree and we left!!!

So I dont want to put the program in the position of being the bad guy..... but I do want some support in holding my ground from them.

I really dont want to do anything to help him to leave and I think giving him the iphone will help him. It may not be the reason he stays but I dont want to help him to leave.

Ugh....

TL

 

[92025]

yeah, good call, don't give him the phone.

 

[dstc_99]

Considering his attitude I would tell him since it is his property he can have his girlfriend get it to him. The most I would do is deliver it to the staff and not to him.

I wouldn't bother going back for anything until the attitude changes. I would attend the family meetings/group and then leave. He is being extremely disrespectful so you should get what you can out of the family groups and let him figure out how to get what he needs. Once he shows he can treat you respectfully then I would add some visits to him.

Honestly I probably would not have ever picked up the property in the first place. He dug the whole let him figure it out.

 

[BusynMember]

Agree with dtsc. Let me find a way to have it brought to him, but don't do it yourself.

Isn't it amazing how difficult children just KNOW how to hit us with our own values when they don't use them at all?

 

[toughlovin]

If we had predicted this we would not have picked up his property...although he did need his id. I totally agree about not visiting unless he can be respectful.

Unless I am given a really good reason I haven't thought of I am not giving him the iPhone and I am not going to visit unless we can stop talking about it.

 

[toughlovin]

Well I have gotten a bit of clarity in my head....i just got so thrown by his "this is ethical, this is my property argument and my husband kind of leaves it to me and says later well he has a point.

So I have realized that when you are dealing with these kinds of issues ethics is not my focus really. I need to do with what I (thats me not him) can live with. I know if he leaves he is making a terrible mistake that will further mess up his life. It is his choice and I cant stop it but I also am not going to do anything to help him do it. He wants that phone because it will give him internet access and a way to communicate with people who will help him leave... so indirectly I would be helping him do something stupid. He is only arguing "ethics" because he cant find another argument he think will work.

I feel a little bad because by telling him I would talk to staff about it I kind of put them in a bad position of being the bad guy. I am going to let them know I am very willing to take the heat, but I lost my clarity in the middle of the argument.

To be honest I dont really care if he hates me at the moment, I still need to do what I can live with.... because as we all know this could end badly and I will need to live with myself.

I told my husband this morning that I am not going to visit him next week if it means continuing the discussion. I can sit in the car and read while he goes in.

TL

 

[comatheart]

I think you are doing the right thing. I can't imagine how hard that must be though. ((((HUGE HUGS!))))

 

[lovemysons]

Oh TL these difficult child's of ours!!!

Yep, we are held to highest degree by their measuring stick...but it doesn't apply to them! (shake head and roll eyes).

Now, if you guys were not available to transport ID and phones to the facility then difficult child would not have these things anyway right? The jail wouldn't just send them there would they?
I guess my thought is he is "Using" ...Using you. Otherwise he wouldn't have these things regardless.

I am sending you more hugs TL,
I wish your difficult child would get his head on straight. He is safe and help is right there in front of him.
How frustrating!!!
LMS

 

[Nancy]

Is this family support group just a visiting time or do they actually have some structured activities? If it's just visiting I wouldn't go either. I'm suprised they are allowed to have cell phones in there. Why can't youjust give the cell phone to the director and have him secure it. If difficult child leaves then he can have it. Is the point that if he knows it's there he will leave now? If it isn't there he will stay until he knows he has access to it? I'm just thinking out loud here TL. I wouldn't give him anything you paid for. If you give them the iphone that his girlfriend gave him that's one thing but that's it. He still has to figure out how to pay for the service. I sense he will just leave at some point with or without his property and then be calling you demanding you send it to him.

I'm sorry TL.

 

[toughlovin]

Thanks LMS.... You hit it right. I feel like he is totally using me and then when I don't do what he wants he accuses me of stealing and being unethical. It is laughable really.

I wish we lived close so we could commiserate in person about our difficult children!

I am trying to get myself to the point where I don't think bout him but I am not there yet.

 

[lovemysons]

I understand TL, I'm not completely "there" yet either.

I wish we all lived on the same block! Yikes, but then our difficult child's would know each other and our block would make front page news every other day! Oh geez.

We will survive their drug addicted mentality.
We will! We have to.
hugs,
LMS

 

[comatheart]

Hahaha, that would be a sight to see! (Though it would certainly be nice for all of us parents)

 

[NotMyKidd]

I totally agree - no iphone. My son would do the same thing if he was in rehab right now. He didn't own a phone when he was in rehab at age 15, but he kept insisting I bring things to him that he deserved. I am a mean ol' witch, though, and I refused to bring him anything extra. In your case, the iphone is really not a good idea since, as you mentioned, they can use the internet, and can reach friends. But, they can probably manage to do that, anyway... sigh

 

[NotMyKidd]

He still has to figure out how to pay for the service. I sense he will just leave at some point with or without his property and then be calling you demanding you send it to him.

I hadn't thought of that. Who's paying for it now?

One thing that keeps popping back in my mind is that they don't get it. They just don't get it that they screwed up and now they have to pay the consequences. When they misbehaved as children, we took their toys away. Well, when they misbehave as adults and get caught and have to serve time/go to rehab etc., they get their toys and privileges and luxuries and loved ones taken away. They Don't Have The Right to enjoy life's extras when they screw up repeatedly and suck the life out of the rest of us.

I wonder what he would be insisting you have to bring to him if cell phones didn't exist yet?

 

[toughlovin]

Nancy....they have a 2 hour support group for families without the residents in a location down the street...and then you can visit for an hour after with the resident.

He is not allowed a phone or iPhone. He just wants us to leave it so it is in their safe because it is "his" property". I know the reason is so if he walks he can have internet access and contact his friends!

At this point I am doing nothing to help him to leave. I am going to tell him if he leaves and wants his property then I will meet him at probation! Of course he won't consider that an option because that would mean jail.

Of course he may still walk and that will be his choice but it will make things harder and more likely he gets picked up before he leaves the state.

TL

 

[Signorina]

TL I like the meeting him at probation. Perfect!!

Lots if gentle {{{{ hugs}}}} to you.

 

[DammitJanet]

I have been basically MIA for a bit but have been reading this forum tonight. TL, I had a thought about his so called property and your ethics. I think you should lose them. The phone I mean. You dont have to really but Im sure you have a hamper or place with lots of junk that this phone could suddenly get lost in. Close your eyes and toss it back there behind the furnace or something then the next time the subject comes up just say something like "well difficult child I was going to bring it but when I went to look for it, it wasnt in the drawer (or wherever) that I thought I put it. I will just have to look around harder." Boy cell phones are small and can get lost in the strangest places!

 

[PatriotsGirl]

I am so sorry my friend. Stay strong!!! I like Janet's idea of losing the phone...

 

[toughlovin]

Lol on losing the phone. I had thought of that actually.... however then I will get harrangued and badgered about finding the phone. I think I just need to be really firm about it and once he realizes he isnt going to get anywhere he will probably get over it.... and if he doesnt then I will just leave the visit.

TL

 

[dstc_99]

Even better just leave the phone with the probation officer and tell him he can pick it up there. LMAO

I am so mean!