why can't i medicate? help!

[Jena]

hi

so i was sitting here thinking what's up with me? I have had difficult child on drugs in the past, did the all nighter to watch her first night on them and see how she does, sent her to school after i knew she tolerated it, etc.

yet now i find myself in a much different place than before. I went to dr tonight we spoke and he was happy to hear that she was not only playing violin that she was also in theatre group and she had just joined student council. I also told him how the herbal mix i came up wtih and the Occupational Therapist (OT) brushing was working at night to get her down, then i said well she's still pulling the nurse 2 to 3 times a day various somatic complaints, etc. she's got alot of social anxiety. she goes to these things yet she doesnt' talk to anyone.

so he suggested klonipin and i said no because it's addicting i like medications i can pull right away if needed and klonipin you can't once it's been given for a while. than we talked about seroquel. i said look if we can't address the anxiety issues through the ssri's, or the benzo's let's go with the off label usage as someone had suggested here and let's use seroquel it's known to combat anxiety issues.

so there we go he's my prescription pad i could ask for anything and the guy would write it. so i walked out with 25mg of it to fill.

than my mind started to go and think. i thought ok if i've seen improvement already with creating outlet's, i'm going to eventually see improvement with therapy long term weekly therapy.

yet i'm stuck i don't want to give her a drug tha'Tourette's Syndrome going to change her chemical make up in her brain i simply do not want to do it. i know there are going to be responses stating i'm making her life harder, etc. yet at the end of the day i've purposely created things for her to assist her and to grow and it's working partially yet i can't get ok with a kid taking a drug like this.

yet logically speaking i had her on it once before yet the weight gain was too severe. what right do i have to pop her on a harmful drug because she isn't talking to kids and sh'es inward and shy, that when she does place herself into situations ie student council meeting her heart beats and she wishes she could get out. school says they think part of it isn't the anxiety she just wants out of class.

i know the anxiety is there trust me i do. yet am i making a sound decisoin right now to pop her on a a typical drug?? i'm just hitting a brick wall with myself for some strange reason and i don't know why, i really don't.

i'm just rambling and not sure what's up with me that i cna't just fill it. maybe because i see the herbal stuff working at night, maybe because i see improvement in certain areas i look for anything to show improvement by the way. it can be the smallest thing yet it's improvement. let's face it she's not sitting in the corner of the room shaking all day she's in it pushing fighting to make it work she really is she's soo so stubborn.

ok thanks for letting me ramble on relentlessly........ so any ideas why i'm hitting this roadblock?

 

[meowbunny]

I think we all fight putting our kids on medications, especially if we see improvement without them. If she is bipolar, then the reality is she will need medications. The reality is that if there's a chemical imbalance, then medications should be considered -- obviously the least potent possible.

Now, I'm going to ask you a question that will probably really upset you. Have you considered medications for yourself? Your posts are frequently jumbled, racing thoughts. You come up with plans that make no sense such as the one about being a paralegal without an attorney supervising -- you've been in the legal field long enough to know the risks of that, yet you considered it as a viable option. It really does sound as if you need more than just therapy. Please understand this is not criticizing you but is said out of concern. You need to be stable to be able to help your daughter.

Regardless, you have to do what you feel is right for your daughter. If you feel she can cope without them, then let her try. Be sure she can talk to you about her feelings, not just say what she thinks you want to hear. That way, you can be more clear of what she needs. I wish you the best.

 

[Andy]

You have got to go wth your instincts. You know your daughter better than anyone else. It is o.k. to go without the medications if you believe she can make it.

For my son's anxiety, we used the medications to help him get through until he had a chance to learn and master coping skills. We are now taking him off the medications because I believe he can use his skills. If I am proven wrong, we can always put him back on but for now my instincts are telling me it is right.

Your daughter is working at overcoming her anxiety and you have her involved in some out of school activities. These are good.

You will be able to tell if life is too miserable for her. If she is struggling and doesn't feel she is getting anywhere than you can rethink the medication.

Each person is different. Not everyone improves with medications. If you do get any feedback encouraging the medications, know that it is not a judgement against you if you do not give the medication but a sign of support. We want what is best for your daughter and all input will help you make a decision one way or the other. Someone may have a viewpoint that you have not considered but we all respectfully allow you the final say and will support you through your decision.

 

[Andy]

p.s. Possible bipolar? Have you done more to test for this?

My previous answer was based on the anxiety - I know nothing about bipolar but if it is something that will definetly need medication, wouldn't it be best to get that going ASAP before those symptoms get out of hand?

Try getting a better handle on where the doctors are on the bipolar issue - that will also help with the medication decision.

Good Luck!

 

[Wiped Out]

Jennifer,
The decision to medicate isn't and easy one. I can understand your reluctance especially when you are seeing improvements. With my difficult child, who is bipolar (I really don't have doubts that it is one of his illnesses), medications became a necessity. Without them he has no control and I do mean no control, with them he has done better. Not by any means is it a cure all but for him it helps. I also really believe in the psychiatrist we have for him. He really listens to what we say and observes and talks to difficult child as well before making changes to his medications. I think having a doctor I trust is critical.

 

[LittleDudesMom]

I think Andy and Meow brought up some good points regarding the possible BiPolar (BP) diagnosis and the need for medications.

Jennifer, your daughter is a minor. At this point the decision is yours. I'm sorry to say, but I find your post to be disjointed. It could be due to your emotions over this issue. But you have to really have a clear perspective to make this decision for your daughter. 25 mg of seroquel is a very small dose. It is the dose my son was on for about 2.5 years. It helped him sleep at night, deal with anxiety and frustration, and also increased his appetite a bit.

It really did help. We tapered the medication before he went Occupational Therapist (OT) middle school because he had made such progress. He was ready. Not all medications are a life sentence, just has not all medications are necessary. Each case has to be looked at individually. I think you were saying in your post (and here is where I say it it disjointed, it was kinda hard to follow a thought all the way through) that she visits the nurse multiple times a day with various complaints? I am imagining that these visits do not result in a call to you?

Perhaps this is her way of coping. Perhaps the nurses office is a safe place for her when she is feeling overwhelmed and anxious. I think it's important for our kids to know that there is a place they can go, at school, if they are feeling overwhelmed, frustrated or anxious. If this is the case with your daughter, talk to her about it. Tell her she doesn't have to have a physical excuse to go to the nurses office. You understand that she feels calmer there. Limit the visits and the duration of the visits, but allow her some control.

You know, the seroquel will take several weeks to be effective. Could you trial it for a set amount of time? Perhaps you could give it 8 weeks. If you don't see an improvement, you and the doctor taper it off. However, if you feel really strongly about not giving it to your daughter, we understand that as well. If you feel her issues can truly improve with weekly therapy, then try that for awhile. Talk therapy does work for many (my son was really helped by it too). If the physical and verbal compliants continue without lessening, you know the therapy is not working and something else is needed.

Good luck,
Sharon

 

[house of cards]

I understand the concern over medications but as a person that has gone thru life with social anxiety, I sure wish my mom had put me on medications. It would have changed my life. Of course I could do it now and won't, in part because I have crafted my life so that I don't have to deal with people much...but it does get lonely.

 

[nvts]

Hey Jen! What about a Social Skills Class? Maybe she would benefit from these classes so that she can "self-talk" her way through the anxious points prior to and during a club meeting, making friends etc.

I know she's 9, and this site may seem a little young for her - but my 9 soon to be 10 year old LOVES these books (not expensive at all and they let you do a "test" book to see if it's appealing to her). Here's the link:

http://www.sandbox-learning.com/

What's neat about it is that you personalize the book, print it and it has her name, hair color, favorite things etc. You can pick and choose the social situation and it just puts them at ease and opens discussions about what's got them nervous.

It's worth a try!

Beth

 

[Jena]

good morning,

Thanks for the responses and getting me past the wall of cr*p i'm in. I think I've just been beat down too much by my ex, my family, the school recently and I step cautiously with every move i make. boyfriend said to me last night it's also because the dr. looks to me for answers, it should be the other way around. So, I feel so highly responsible and also not educated enough to make big decisions like this. Seriously this guy is nothiing but a prescription pad to me.

I look to him for guidance someone to finally take control and he anti's up thorazine. ugh.

andy - in regards to the BiPolar (BP), dr's have felt that due to the fact that without anything for sleep difficult child can go into modes where she'd literally be up all night or until 2 or 3 yet be up and be creative, focused, etc. yet now that i have combatted the sleep issue i don't see the swings as much as I did before. I think BiPolar (BP) takes a long time to properly diagnose with a kid, you have to monitor them for a while, therapy, medications if you need than you can see what's what. difficult child has always been a complicated case because besides the anxiety which is always prevelent.

sharon - regarding me, that's a loaded question. i find it as well as of late as do others i'm all over the place. my t feels it is due to my own anxiety. i've been through alot this past year, too much. so my heads barely above water at certain points, yet i am very good with difficult child and patient. if you have read some of my posts you know the personal stuff i've been up against, much more than my personal relationship yet my family disowning me last year, than walking away from my job (yup my choice, yet still strange after working all my life to have someone supporting me, especially my trust issues), than bang in the middle of difficult child issues and job, boom out comes supressed memories of an extremely abusive past with my father. than followed my own diagnosis of complex ptsd, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) (obsessional thinking) and slight adhd. so, it has been a rough road i will not lie in regards to keeping me sane. my doctor and i have discussed BiPolar (BP). i actually asked her if it was a possibility she did a evaluation. asked certain questions, etc. at the end she said no jen it's not that , your just under an enormous amt of stress and it's been going on now for quite some years. it wasn't just this year. before this year i was calm and centered and focused. now i'm not. we have discussed medications for me i do not want to go there yet. i want to keep pushing forward without. when i feel as though i can't manage me anymore i will take them. yet i'm not there yet. i meet the needs of difficult child and older one, my relationship, my family with whom i'm repairing a relationship with, the small business i created and also looking for new work. so i have all the balls in the air. boyfriend actually planted me last night in regards to the medications. we had a long talk and than i got ok with it. i just have such fear surrounding it.

in regards to the post i did about my idea, it isn't as far fetched as you thought. maybe you misunderstood my intention, yet helping people with information pertaining to forms, filling them out for them, being an advocate of some type would be a great idea. sort of like a go between the lawyers and the courts. yet it would take alot of money to insure myself, open the llc, and just effort on my part that i do not want to go through at this time. i do not like to see people wronged, taken advantage of it upsets me and i've seen it for years.

Back to the school issue, I also get alot of mixed info from school. this new teacher is so gun ho on fixing difficult child which i do appreciate yet i need information just that not her opinion or her perception of what difficult child is going through she isn't qualified i just want straight talk, yet from her i do not get that. so i'm truly out of the loop in regards to what is going on daily in that school. she seems to have created an out for herself to avoid the social issue of recess the student council works on projects in the lunchroom during recess so she signed up all by herself to get out of the awkwardness of that situation.

difficult child is also manipulating, extremely needy, and plays me quite often. so i'm always careful not to feed too much into what she says, because i almost always have to figure out if it's due to her overall needines and just wanting negative attention or if its truth of what she's experiencing.

ok enough said lol.

oops one more thing, lol but anyway i do see your point Sharon, I truly do. why, let me ask you i know your not a dr. and neither am i but the jumping all over i've been told can be the anxiety mixed with the adhd i've got going on. what does it strike you as out of the box reading my posts? i'd be curious to know and pls. don't hold back

 

[Debbie MA]

My son is 16 and has had a bipolar diagnosis since he was 8. He does not take any psychiatric medications (although we trialed many between the ages of 9-12) and has been stable for several years. Our approach is not a popular one, I think, but there are many parents finding great relief for their kids with supplements. My son currently takes vitamins C, E & D; B complex; another with B3 and B12 with folic acid and amino acids; zinc; magnesium; omega 3; inositol; melatonin and Tuarine. he also takes thyroid medication. Like I said, he's fine, a joy to have around. The medications just never worked and had horrible side effects.

If you are questioning medications then it might be a good idea to go the supplement route since many people find it hard to stabilize on supplements after being treated with psychiatric medications. If supplements fail then the medications are still available.

Good luck.

 

[Jena]

debbie

I'm very happy for you, truly I am. For some it works great the natural supplemental approach. I have started difficult child on exactly those vitamins. the only thing i haven't used is the taurine.

i've gotten the moods more stable,she still has small outbursts i think more than your average kid she can be a bit volatile. yet i can't seem to nip the anxiety in the butt so to speak which is why i'm turning to seroquel.

i've been to the site you speak of. drug companies hate that ppl use these approaches because let's face it they make a whole lot less money.

 

[Stella Johnson]

Is this a psychiatrist you are taking her to for medications or family doctor? I believe in making informed decisions about medication but I don't think it's a good idea to tell the doctor what drug you think she should be on. The docs are the ones who went to medication school.

Many of your posts have seemed very disjointed and are frequently hard to read. Does your boyfriend know about this board? Ask him to read the posts and see what he thinks... he does live with you. Probably knows you personally better than we do. Just an idea

Hope your difficult child finds a way to work through her anxiety. I know it is hard

Steph

 

[Jena]

steph

hi, no she's going to her pyschiatrist for the medications, I wouldn't have a gp prescribe such medications. I also "tell" the dr. what medications I think she should be on because quite frankly he does not know what to do. Just like the other 3 doctors with whom have worked with us. They are all just prescription pads at the end of the day. Which I believe is why I am so concerned about the reactions to such. At the end of the day I dropped the script off to be filled.

Yes, he knows about the site yet he would never violate my privacy by entering in it. I appreciate your concern as well yet I am quite sure that it is the overwhelming year I have had the new diagnosis of complex ptsd, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and adhd for me all working together. Even in business (back when I had a job ) i was always known to run on and have tons of thoughts at the same time. Yet I was great at my job.

I'm hopeful that a low dosage of the seroquel will do the trip in combatting the anxiety issue. I have to give up the herbal stuff at night i've been using which is sad, because i was so excited that it worked.

 

[LittleDudesMom]

oops one more thing, lol but anyway i do see your point Sharon, I truly do. why, let me ask you i know your not a dr. and neither am i but the jumping all over i've been told can be the anxiety mixed with the adhd i've got going on. what does it strike you as out of the box reading my posts? i'd be curious to know and pls. don't hold back

Good Morning Jennifer.

Ok, Here is your final paragraph from a post you made yesterday in which you asked me a question. I want you to read it. Then I want you to read it again. Before you read any further, ask yourself if is is clear and makes sense or if it is all over there?





I understand that you are asking if anxiety and adhd combined can cause you to have "all over the place thoughts". I'm sorry, I can't really say. I know, for my difficult child with adhd and anxiety, when he is really, really, really, nervous about something, he may ramble, but usually it's the opposite and he closes down. And, it is not something that affects every single part of his life. It's situation by situation. Because he is anxious about something one day, it does not translate into random anxiety the next day. But, that is my difficult child.

I think you are also asking me what sounds outside the box in your thread? Well, the whole thing really. The thoughts fly from one thing to another - the punctuation comes and goes - the sentence structure comes and goes - capitalization comes and goes - random thoughts pop in - two unrelated thoughts are strung together without meaning. I think that is why one of the posters suggested your boyfriend read the posts. Since he knows you, he could give an opinion as to whether you are getting your points across to us.

You know Jennifer, it's really tough to get to know someone on a board. There are some of us that have been on here for quite some time that have had the opportunity to meet each other. Sometimes they are exactly as you thought, and other times they are the total opposite. All we have is our words here. When someone posts a clear and caring posts, folks make a judgement about that person. When someone makes a post filled with random thoughts that make little sense, folks make a judgement about that person as well.

You certainly have been through the ringer. I believe what is of the uppermost importance right now is that YOU take care of you. You are seeing a doctor - is that doing any good for you? Has there been discussion of medications for you? It's really hard to parent our difficult children when we are having issues similiar to what they are dealing with!

I certainly want you to find support and advice here. I don't want you to feel that we are "ganging up" on you. Sometimes it takes those outside a situation to get the clearest picture.

You asked for honesty. I did my best to give it to you. I hope today is a better day for difficult child and for you. Take care.

Sharon

 

[maril]

Hi, jennifer. I just wanted to comment on some things you said in your post:

"I look to him for guidance someone to finally take control and he anti's up thorazine. ugh."

I can relate to your frustration. There truly are some docs that are just watching that clock and grabbing for the Rx pad. LOL.

"sharon - regarding me, that's a loaded question. i find it as well as of late as do others i'm all over the place. my t feels it is due to my own anxiety. i've been through alot this past year, too much. so my heads barely above water at certain points, yet i am very good with difficult child and patient."

I am like you, as far as when under lots of stress, when anxious and tired, I become cognitively impaired -- LOL. BUT, like you, I still continue to work at keeping my priorities straight, trying to be patient, and to be effective as a parent. It ain't easy.

"difficult child is also manipulating, extremely needy, and plays me quite often. so i'm always careful not to feed too much into what she says, because i almost always have to figure out if it's due to her overall needines and just wanting negative attention or if its truth of what she's experiencing."

Regarding the manipulating and getting over on mom: Years ago, my difficult children older sister would tell me that difficult child was playing me and that I had no idea what he was doing; didn't take her too seriously back then but now because of a succession of problems and discoveries, I can see clearly that what my daughter said is true. I, too, have to keep my eyes open.

Anyway, best wishes to you and yours. Every new day holds promise for better things to come.

 

[Jena]

Sharon

Good morning, and thanks for taking the time to write all of that and to truly explain what it is that you see.

I totally agree, when you are on the internet such as this getting a true "feel" for a person or people is highly difficult. Yet, truth is all we have are our words to express ourselves and to connect with others and offer support and an ear. I took the time last night after I got difficult child to bed to reread some of my posts. My responses are often alot better and clearer. Yet, my own thoughts do infact ramble on quite a bit lol......wow!!

I am confident though that it truly is a mix of my "raw" state when I enter into the boards here, mixed with a combo of my own diagnosis's at this point. This is usually my place to come when I am not calm, when I am upset and my emotions are raw. It truly shows in my posts though.

I do not in any way feel "ganged up" on. I think the fact that you or anyone else took the time to sort of bring me up to speed, point out some stuff shows yet again the level of support always offered here.

NOTICE TODAY I AM USING PERIODS, AND MAKING REALLL PARAGRAPHS LOL.

I do the best I can in taking care of me, I am making alot more time as of late, popping my vitamins truly taking a time out from the 5 kids when I need to, meditating which for me is key. Also the weekly therapy i have cut back to every other week. I think there comes a point or a time in which it can truly be overdone. I don't need to rehash my "stuff" every week.

We have all been through the ringer at one point or another, it is challenging handling our difficult child's as well as our own selves.

Anyway i've also noticed some real triggers for me, coffee is one of them. I love the stuff yet 2 cups sends my head bouncing all over the place and the anxiety gets bad. So, i'm drinking decaf now ugh I can't even eat chocolate anymore like I used to. Seems since this supressed memory junk came out 6 mos ago i am a changed person. I almost always tended to jump around, even did it at work. Yet its different now I am different. Hopefully a stronger person, and more intune with my own needs and self. I think I ignored myself for far too long.

I usually handle me when I am facing some type of emergency......ie. toothache swollen face, lump suddenly in breast, etc. I'm not very good at my own maintenance.

I'll try to watch how I write from now on so others won't walk away shaking their head, yet i'm still me. I'm also not doing the medication thing for me right now, yes we have discussed it yet i'm not at that point yet. All the balls are still in the air i haven't dropped any.

have a great day and thanks again

 

[Jena]

Marilynne

Hi, and welcome you are new!!

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Cognitively impaired without a doubt lol. There are days I write post it reminders for myself and than i can't find them to read them.

Yet at the end of the day we all do our job, because we are Mom's. So, regardless of how we bounce off the walls, our minds race, the pressure builds we just keep on going!!

We are amazing. Truly. Woman are the stronger of the two sexs i've always said that. I'm sitting in bed right now typing as boyfriend sleeps, we were both up late drinking tea and talking yet he sleeps and I was up at 6:30 a.m. LOL

Thanks again, have a great day!!