Advice please

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Mamacat, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. Mamacat

    Mamacat Active Member

    I've posted on this forum about 45 year old daughter. In a nutshell, my husband and I have rescued her financially for 9 years. In September, she went to another state with my two granddaughters. She was running from an abusive boyfriend and from an abusive daddy to my granddaughters who was taking her back to court again to get unsupervised visits with the girls. He is diagnosed schizophrenic. She had very little to no money to go. We gave her almost $800 thee first month she was gone. Then she got mad when I refused her request to sign for an apt. And stopped speaking to me for almost 5 months. I got a call from granddaughters on Valentine's day. Spoke to her and she was sweet, sweet. So now I'm thinking what does she want. She tells me that she will probably have to travel back to our state for court case. So I'm thinking there it is. She'll ask for travelling money. So far she has not asked. The other day I got a friend request on fb. At first I didn't confirm it, but then later I did. Don't ask me why. Well today she posted that the case is next week. She was hoping to get a continuance until October so she could save monery for the trip . so the guilt set in. I have the money to help her, but I don't want to. She hasn't asked for it, but I'm so suspicious of her that I suspect this whole thing is a setup knowing I would read her post and I would offer help like I normally do. I'm sorry life is so tough for her. I had suggested that she not go to the other state until court case was settled. But no, she was ready to go. Legalized marijuana was mentioned as a reason to move. On the other hand, I guess she has no way of knowing I saw the post. The second abuser, who is an ex husband, has moved there to be with her

    Any thoughts or advice.
     
  2. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Here is your answer. You know already know. Listen to yourself.

    The only thing you can do to help protect your granddaughters is to file a CPS report if you suspect abuse by any one of these men.

    If at some point your daughter decides to change you will know.

    It is very, very hard to accept that there is nothing we can do. This is the hardest lesson for me.
     
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Yep.

    She is 45. Grown up. Dont offer. I agree its a set up.

    They ignore us but always come back when they need something. We are their personal ATMs to bail them out when they make poor choices and refuse to work or learn from their mistakes.

    I think age matters along with if they are truly disabled and how they treat me counts, at least in my world. It would be hard for me to justify bailing out a 45 year old who lived way long enough to know better and who treated me like crap if I didnt hand over my money.

    Thats just me maybe. A struggling 20 year old who has true issues and is nice to me is a different thing to me.

    But you have to do what you think is right, not what i think. I hope you find peace in this situation. I agree with calling cps if these are minor children and you have witnessed abuse.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  4. Mamacat

    Mamacat Active Member

    Y'all are right. I just don't want to be involved. She's made it this far without me. I'm sure someone will help her. Facebook is going to be off limits for me. It's not like she didn't know she'd have to travel back for the court date. She chose to go anyway. I'm sorry her life is so difficult. It's been like this for years because of choices she's made. I know all of us wish better lives for our adult children, but continuing to bail them out is not the answer. When I hear a success story, it happens when we take our hands out of their lives. I just wish my heart understood.
     
  5. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    This rings so familiar to me. My son is not dumb (just no common sense) he knew that if he asked me for money I would say no so instead he would try and guilt me into giving him money.
    I've heard it all:
    I'm going to starve to death.
    I have no one, I mean no one cares about me. I'm cold and alone.
    I almost died last night because I didn't have anywhere to go.
    I just don't know what to do anymore, I might as well be dead.
    I don't have enough money to buy food this week.
    On and on.

    My guess is that your daughter is hoping that she can guilt you into giving her money.

    Stay strong and keep the purse closed!
     
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  6. Mamacat

    Mamacat Active Member

    Do people ike our adult kids plan ways to get money out of us? For example, I had not heard from her for almost 5 months. No response to gifts I sent for IRS. Nothing. Then bingo, here's a sweet Valentine's day call. "So sorry I haven't been iintouch. We were having a rough time. Almost on the streets. Court case is coming up. I'll have to travel home". No request for anything. She asked if I'd seen her brother I sasud yes as a matter of fact, he's here. Tears on the other end, but interestingly didn't ask to speak to him. Then a text request for some stuff that I had on my computer that she needed for the lawyer. Still no request for money. Then today the post about the court date. It's happening within a week or so. I haven't had much experience with the courts, but wouldn't she have had more advance warning? Could she knowingly calculate ways to get to me without out right asking? It seems like such game playing.
     
  7. Mamacat

    Mamacat Active Member

    Oh my gosh Tanya. That must be so difficult. It's hard to understand how getting a job is so foreign an idea my daughter hasn't worked at a decent paying job in years. She's college educated, a teacher. She's always putzng around from one job to the next. Always an excuse why it didn't work.
     
  8. SeekingStrength

    SeekingStrength Well-Known Member

    Our Difficult Child always contacted us in a friendly way right before he wanted money.

    husband and I had a sad joke. Whomever heard from him would text/call the other: "Hey, heard from Difficult Child..." We knew that meant he was about to ask for $$. It always played out that way and was stressful.

    The last time (when we finally said NO), he sent an email to several family members, along the lines of What happened? We were getting along great! I had just texted them about what happened to the Skipper on Gilligans's Island.

    husband and i had checked out, largely because the strength we got from this forum.

    It was always the same ol, same ol. We said no and all heck broke loose. We should have done it years earlier.

    If your case is anything like ours (plainly playing us), I hope you decline and stay strong.
     
  9. Mcmary

    Mcmary New Member

    I learn so much from all of your experiences. I thought it was bad for a 37 year old but at least there aren't grandkids involved as well. That has to make it that much tougher. All the books say to say no. I am also waiting for that friendly phone call knowing the next one will be a guilt trip. We all know what that feels like and they say it is much much harder for the mom to be strong and not feel guilty about it. We are moms, afterall. And she's a mom too! It's her job to do better.
     
  10. Catmom

    Catmom Member

    Tonya M.....gosh....I took a picture of your post for my phone to keep me strong. My son goes through all of those guilty sayings to make me feel bad and hand over money. The exact same ones! Next time he sends me those comments or tells me he is starving, he is so sad etc I am going to look at the picture of your post to remind me to not feel bad as it is all a charade.
     
  11. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    Straight out of the adult difficult child handbook! My son has said the same thing to us. In the reality they live in they think that having a few "good" conversations somehow washes away all the chaos they have created.
    I have made it very clear to my son that I have forgiven him for all that he has done to us but that by no means I have forgotten it nor do I trust him. The forgiveness is for me as I do not want to hold that bitterness in my heart.
    As I'm typing this I'm getting ready to write a letter to my son who is currently in jail on charges of assault with a deadly weapon (knife). Of course my son says he is innocent. I would like more than anything to believe him but he has lied to me too many times. I just cannot trust his words. He could be facing 16 years in prison.
    I received a letter from him explaining his innocence and how the jail and judge are very corrupt and to not send money. I actually laughed when I read the part about not sending money. Even if he had asked me to send money I will not. His letter was also full of things that sound great, "I found God", "I'm at peace with what is happening", etc.... He has always been very good at telling me what he thinks I want to hear. Years ago I would fall for it thinking he had really changed but as time passed, the truth was always revealed.
    I'm glad to have some communication with my son but I have learned to keep my boundaries in check at all times. I will write him letters but I keep them very generic in that I do not offer much detail about my life. I have learned over the years that things I have shared with my son have been used against me. Again, the trust thing.

    Our adult difficult children can be very good at spinning the truths that we want to hear, however the truth is in their actions. Keeping strong boundaries is the best way to protect ourselves.
     
  12. Mamacat

    Mamacat Active Member

    At this point my daughter owes us about $5000. That is not anywhere near what we have spent over the years helping her, but it is for a car we "sold" her about one year ago. (My minivan that I loved and would be driving to this day). She told me she was looking for a good steady job and it was getting too hot for my granddaughter s to walk to store, etc. Well that did it when she mentioned grandbabies. So far I've received$200. When that loan is repaid I will consider the fact that she's turned a corner. It's not the money. It's just the idea that she had no intention of being concerned about keeping her word. I had to go get another car to the tune of $12,000. No more!
     
  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I sometimes wonder how these adult kids would have done life if, like me, you had no money or cars to give her. She may not have made good choices but she couldnt have traveled the world. And i could never haven given her my old van becsuse we could not have afforded to replace it.

    I get the feeling that most here are doing well financially.i read what you spent on these adilt kids and can not believe it. We did not have enough for cars, trips, to pay their rent, to pay for expensive rehabs (yet my daughter quit) and to sustain them
    We live paycheck to paycheck. Nothing extra.

    I think my kids have good work ethics and never ask us for money nor seem upset that we cant hand out the money.
     
  14. Mamacat

    Mamacat Active Member

    That's an interesting thought SWOT. What would she have done? It may have been a different story.
     
  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    She may have still been self destructive but not in another country and not on your dime because you could not have sustained her even if she had kicked and screamed.

    I often believe my drug using daughter quit and my difficult son became very self sustaining (difficult as he is, he likes nice things and makes a college level salary without having gone through college) because they knew that if they got into trouble there was nowhere to turn for financial help. My ex had not yet inherited and was tight.

    I thank my stars all the time that i had not had extra money. I know thats odd...lol. for myself i never cared about money or having "nice" things. I prefer a simple life so i did not feel deprived. For my kids, they worked for most of what they had worked, except for Sonic, since part time in high school.

    I also was more accepting than some here, probably due to my own values and beliefs, about college. I didnt care if they got college degrees or not as long as they had a good wotk ethic or a certificate of some kind. I was not pushy and did not want them to get degrees just to have one. I knew many unemployed college graduates. Goneboy chose no college and is a brilliant CEO nillionaire now. He said "i am starting four years ahead of my peers,"

    Your values are different when you have to allocate your money carefully. I truly believe it helped my child who has the most.difficult personality at least become self sufficient as far as his home, car, bills. He does get money from my now rich ex for his legaL fees in his neverending battle in court with his ex. She keeps dragging him back to court.

    I think many who come here are very well educated and at least solidly middle class. So the kids got whatever we had to work hard to get. For free or because we felt they needed it. Like cars. Or guilt. My husband and I could not have done that.

    I dont think its wrong at all. I may have done the same as I am softhearted. It wasnt an option though. Hubby and I buy ten year old cars for $3k and my mechanic hub keeps them going forever. We did buy two of our kids $3k cars, but Jumper wanted a better car so she worked almost full time while going to school to be a police officer. She just bought a 2015 hybrid car. Her boyfriend, who is 25 and works full time, got her a loan and she pays him. She never asked us to help her. She just surprised us by texting us her car. She will be 21 in June. by the way she made a great choice in a mellow, kind boyfriend and it seems as if he will be springing the question when she is finished with the police academy.

    She has loans for college, but two years isnt four and she got grants too.

    All im saying is my kids lived a different lifestyle and we did too from many here. And I believe it benefited my kids. None, not even critical, difficult son, bring up the lack of extras when they were growing up. I think they feel it helped them.

    All of them are gainfully employed, even autistic son. He works so much he hardly qualifies for social security now and gets little. Even with challenges he works hard!

    If your daughter were my daughter, sending her money casually now or before would never have happened. Getting her an apartment would never have been possible. Paying off a drug dealer because one of my kids claimed one was after them? An impossibility. No, you didnt do this, but some have. A ride out of town away from them would have been our best we could have done and I think it was helpful in my daughters desire to quit and work.

    I am not criticizing anyone. If i had money, who knows??? But I had nothing extra and I think weirdly that it worked out for my kids. And for me...i never get texts asking for money. Never did. My kids became self sufficient early. Only Bart launched later in his dads house.due to mental illness but he accepted help and has a great job now. In fact, i think he gets my grandson too much, like $300 shoes and every video system there is and a 45 in big screen TV. He is almost nine. He is in gifted classes at school right now snd well behaved but I wonder how long that will last. I cant even buy him birthday presents. He has more than most adults!! So i send him money. $50. Its what we can afford...lol.

    Money can sometimes not be so great. Just my observation and opinion. Been reading stories for fifteen years.

    Dont spoil your daughter. in my opinion it isnt too late to teach her that if she makes bad choives, they are hers alone. It helped us. Maybe it will help her. Youd be amazed
    at what even spoiled kids can do when they realize they really have to stand alone.

    Some truly disabled kids cant make it and need help, a little or a lot. Sonic gets a little from the state but minimally. Disabled adults cant depend on us forever. Best to teach them how to get services in my opinion.

    I feel we do them no good to remind them that if they dont try we still have money to bail them out. It keeps them dependent and child like. You supported your daughter for nine years.she still did not take advantage of it or learn. A hand up has a time limit. My opinion. And in my opinion an age limit except if you know your kids had a temp set back and will launch as soon as they get back on track.

    Hugs to a kind and loving mother. I get it. I do. But I think its better for them if we dont do it. I saw the benefits because we couldnt so they DID
     
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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
  16. Mamacat

    Mamacat Active Member

    There's only been money for my husband and I in recent years we are in our 70's, a second marriage. My son and daughter both finished college. Their dad and I split the costs. Neither are using their degrees. My son is a window washer just this year he is starting his own business. He works very hard. He has had issues with alcohol, but seems to be on a good path. Never blamed anyone for his choices. Daughter worked in teaching for 13 years, had a nice husband. Then about late 20's, early 30's things started changing. Divorced nice husband and has married and divorced 2 abusers. Now is back with last one. Hubby and I retired and sold houses we owned. We also live very simple, frugal lives so we haven't spent the money. But we're wanting to travel more. Again we shop for bargains. We help others as we feel it is needed. We no longer want to help adult children who should be helping themselves. My husband has a daughter who he stopped helping years ago. I, on the other hand, have helped my daughter for many years. She sometimes said to me, mom you've got plenty of money. Yes, but it's my money. We worked hard for it and didn't blow it. Tanya said to keep the purse closed. That's what I'm going to do.
     
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  17. Mamacat

    Mamacat Active Member

    I would love to call and try to speak to my granddaughters. On the other hand I don't want to give my daughter any kind of feeling that I'm ready to resume our relationship as before. I'm thinking i might need to just leave things alone. Any thoughts? I know I keep asking for advice, but maybe some can speak from experience.
     
  18. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    There is no one size fits all answer when it comes to whether or not we should help our kids with money. When I was a single mother my parents helped me out. Many years later I talked to my parents and told them I wanted to pay them back since I was in a position to do so. My dad told me that since I always showed how hard I was trying that there was no need. As a single mother, I never got any child support. I worked 2 jobs until I was able to land an office job in a good company. I never went to college but managed to work my way up and acquired marketable skills along the way.
    When it came to my son some of the money we spent was on therapy that was ordered by the court. When my son started getting into trouble to the point police were involved we were at the mercy of family services and the family court system. We struggled to pay the $800 a month for counseling and therapy which lasted 2 years. Not to mention that many of the sessions we had to attend I would have to leave to work.
    The other times we have helped our son was based on my parents helping me. The difference was that I really did try and worked hard to put my life together where my son did not. There were times when my son gave the appearance that he was trying but time would always reveal his true colors. I had hoped each time we would help him that "he'll get it this time".
    I do not regret any of the money we spent or the struggles we went through scraping the money together. I know that I did all I could to try and help my son. It was hard to accept that my son would not put forth the same effort I did when my parents helped me. The time came for me when I knew it was time to close the purse.

    We each can only do what we are comfortable with and for however long it takes.
     
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  19. Mamacat

    Mamacat Active Member

    My daughter called last Thursday to tell me about the court date on Fri. I didn't answer so she left a voice mail. After she called again. I still didn't answer. My body reacts to seeing her name. Later I sent a text that I had gotten her message and said something positive about hoping it gets postponed until October. She then sent a text asking if I would like to talk to the girls. Of course, I'd love to. Girls call and I speak to each of them. I didn't ask to speak to her, nor did she ask to speak to me. After the call, just on a whim, I looked at fb. She had unfriended me again! So I think I now know what that whole exchange was about. The point of why I wrote all this is that it makes me so anxious and also depresses me. It seems my daughter doesn't care one iota about me. I am simply a bank. It hurts! A friend whose field is mental illness calls it dry begging. There's no need to ask. Just drop a hint and I volunteer money. I don't want to do that anymore, so there goes the relationship with my daughter and granddaughters.
     
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  20. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    If your daughter only is nice to you if you hand her money, there is no normal relationship anyways. A relationship does not include emotional blackmail such as "fund my life or you cant talk to your grandchildren," Hon, its sad, but your daughter doesnt seem like a nice person. Some people just dont have empathy so they are okay hurting others who love them. Maybe she lacks empathy.I feel badly for your grandkids. Call cps if she abuses them...please do it for thier sakes.

    Try to have a good day. Are you in therapy? I forgot...
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017